Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[The Spotted Devil]

Great! Sounds you have heaps of help anyway

[Wundahoo]

Just wanted to say that the Cocker Spaniel Club of WA is running an event on Saturday 4th August in the York vicinity.

It will be a "mock" Spaniel and Retriever Trial.

This is the first of its kind in WA and there will be an expert from South Australia in attendance to help instruct anyone who might be interested in trying this type of field trial.

We have Dogswest approval for this event and although it's not sanctioned (ie no points for titles etc etc, it will be a fun learning day for all concerned.

There is an entry fee to be paid to the Club.

For further information please contact the Club Secretary on 9398 7857 or you can send me an email via DOL and I can point you in the right direction !!

[The Spotted Devil]

Good luck with the event - hope you get a good turn out.

This thread has gone very quiet lately! I'm not doing much with Em as I leave on Sunday and won't be home for nearly 2 months....poor Mr TSD

[fetchindawgs]

Well it seems to be all go with my crew, with another title two weeks ago. RRD for the young lad. He will be out of the picture for quite a while now as he gets more training for AA.

S.A. trip went well with a 3rd on the first day and a 4th on the second day.

Getting ready to go to Qld with two dogs for their state Ch. Just hoping the flu stays away from me !!

Where are you off to TSD ? Is that 2 months away from Em as well ?

[The Spotted Devil]

Well it seems to be all go with my crew, with another title two weeks ago. RRD for the young lad. He will be out of the picture for quite a while now as he gets more training for AA.

S.A. trip went well with a 3rd on the first day and a 4th on the second day.

Getting ready to go to Qld with two dogs for their state Ch. Just hoping the flu stays away from me !!

Where are you off to TSD ? Is that 2 months away from Em as well ?

Fantastic fetchin' Well done!

Just arrived in Vienna - trying to stay awake to sort my body clock out! In Europe for 3 weeks (conference plus holiday) then on to USA for about a month (work). Will try not to miss the menagerie too much - I know they are in excellent hands :)

[bedazzledx2]

Hi everyone....not a retrieving person (wrong breed) but a few of you will know me with my Aussie, Brooklyn. Am wanting some good retrieving advice for the stooopid blind (multiple retrieve) exercise in UDX.

The exercise...exactly the same as UD gloves only using three scent discrimination leathers which are not visable to the dog. ie. 12 meters out and 6 meters apart. This is not a scent exercise and the dog cant do a hunt and search...must go out and fetch the article on a directed retrieve command. No re-direct allowed.

Brooklyn is very literal and just doesn't understand. If he can see it he is fine, but with it blind he is going out for nothing and doesn't get it.

I thought I would look at how you guys train a blind and see if I can adapt it somewhat. Any suggestions?

[The Spotted Devil]

bedazzledx2 - teaching a blind is often underestimated I suspect. I think it's a pretty tough concept but it's awesome when the penny drops! I suggested to Leopuppy04 to start with a simple wagon wheel exercise to build confidence - I was able to show her in person which helps but the idea is to start with 4 items at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock. Work on heeling the dog in a tight circle to pick up each item. Repeat turning the other way. Then you can tighten the angles. Then work on distance and add sighted vs unsighted. The thing is, we do heaps of sighted blinds and hot blinds first which helps pattern the dog I guess and teach them that there is always a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Does that help? Also try to ensure head and shoulders are square to the retrieve - I know you can't adjust in a trial (hence SH's use of the hand to direct) but it would probably help in training. When the dog starts to understand they will "lock on" to the retrieve. Unmistakeable when you see it.

Sorry more thoughts - when I started I'd walk out with Em, drop a dummy, say "blind", walk back, set her up, say "blind", mark "yes" for locking on, line with the hand and send. Lots of repetition. This is all before wagon wheels. There's a great lining drill that helped her understanding - place around half a dozen dummies in a straight line - white, white, orange, white, orange, white and send the dog out so they pick up one after the other, going further out each time. The white ones draw them out and they "fall over" the unseen orange ones - good for building concept.

Edited July 31, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[bedazzledx2]

Thanks TSD.. I always go by the turn straight, sit straight, run straight concept and have done wagon wheels and he is fine when he sees it. He is really good at gloves for UD in that respect. I've seen gun dogs 'lock on' and it is unmistakable....herding dogs tend not to do that so easily What do you mean by 'hot blinds'?

I like the idea of the lining drill... Any chance of a video link for this? I think I might start cuing him with the word 'blind' why didn't I think of that :D

Thanks for you response...much appreciated

[The Spotted Devil]

Glad to be of help :)

The blind cue is an interesting one because you name the behaviour before you've got it perfect which goes against the grain. Try and get a rhythm going - heel, blind, yes, send. That seems to help too - and it's when Em started to break that I knew she understood - the anticipation and the excitement just got to her. And you really have to build value for the blind because of the lack of movement and chase. Even working Labs need to switch between marks and blinds to increase motivation so try that also. Hot blinds are known blinds and are really about setting the dog up for success - so in a novel environment we might walk the dog out on the exact line we want the dog to take, place dummy/game, walk the dog back and send as if it were a cold (unknown) blind. I do this at every trial with Em after competition has finished - I use a run from Restricted as the judges set some interesting challenges. The other thing we do is set up the same blinds in exactly the same place every day and rotate though them until the dog is really smooth. Move them and start again. The other benefit is that the dogs take the same line but under different weather conditions so they learn to run into the wind, for example, which they are not fussed on. You can have a pile of dummies and send the dog out to the pile repeatedly.....increasing the distance you send from each time. You can throw a mark, send the dog, take a break and send to the same place as a blind. Lots of different ways of reinforcing the same concept. You don't ever want a young dog coming back without a dummy in training - they need to succeed so we use a helper to toss another dummy in the same area or call the dog into the area. Some people also train blinds using a flag and then make it smaller and smaller until it's gone - not my preference but it does suit some dogs/trainers.

I don't have a link to the lining drill but I've always meant to do another video - when I get back from O/S!

Edited July 31, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[aussielover]

I've been thinking about getting into retrieving for ages, but sadly haven't really had the time this year yet. I have a 2.5 year old labrador.

However, we attended an agility trial yesterday where they also wer edoing the RATG trials. I went down to watch for a bit and it looked really fun.

Unfortunately I think our retrieving days are over even before they began!

The RATG people there were super nice and let my dog have a go with the dummy and pigeon. She was scared of the pigeon and although she would retrieve the dummy she would drop it at my feet or want to play tug with it Unfortunately i've trained her to drop her ball at my feet and i also play tug with her for agility so there are some bad habits there tat would need fixing.

She is quite a mouthy dog and loves carrying around toys, socks, shoes etc around the house and will always greet you with something in her mouth, and she does love playing fetch as well so I thought she'd be ok.

Was pretty shocked that she was scared of the dead pigeon :laugh: She sometimes brings me back dead rabbits she find at the park so I's have thought she'd be ok with dead animals.

Apparently there's a beginner training day early next year which we might go to, and if we're still hopeless after that, i might just have to wait till my next dog

[The Spotted Devil]

I thought it time to add to this thread.....

I meant to enter Em this weekend in a trial but with all the excitement and craziness surrounding last weekend's Dalmatian Nationals I forgot. Not to mention that I really need a weekend to myself after stewarding at the Vic State Champs and multiple weekends doing agility. I learnt heaps at the State Champs - spent time on the thrower and gun stewarding - highly recommend it to anyone who wants to learn.

She needs one more win in Novice so I am really working on our Restricted skills in earnest. We've been doing handling drills, lining drills etc etc for ages and she was doing double marks quite easily before I went overseas. However, 3 months with no training and we have both slipped a little. Never mind! I have a list of things to work on and the last few days I've been doing hot blinds combined with a memory mark - she's doing them fine but knowing her body language like I do the concept has a way to go yet. I think she is really enjoying doing something different, though! Had Mr TSD throw a mark for her the other day so she went across land, water, land, water, land - she nailed the distance and attacked the water entries really well. Have finally set up my new Bumper Boy so just need a spare few hours to get the hang of it.

Our temporary resident, Barkley, is quite the character! At about 16 weeks he is being taught some manners by Zig, Em and the cats. He has a lot more respect for the cats than he does for the dogs!!! He's not really interested in food so far but is extremely motivated by social rewards and toys. Although he was much more excited about food when I trained all 3 dogs together last night (now that was funny!) I'm going through the puppy games class that I started at our dog club - recall games, 2-food game (just adding sits) and steady feet to start with. He is learning that "sit" is the default position for everything and I've shaped it from the start - go through a door, get out of his crate, have his meal, have a pat, be given a toy. He's a smart little thing so I've now upped the ante and he has to sit still for a few seconds (:laugh:) until he's released. A little impulse control never goes astray! We've started doing puppy level walking singles with him the last few days - the small dummy is a bit big really but he makes every effort to pick it up and is really keen to retrieve. Not so keen to bring it all the way back at this stage but that's not unexpected. He has always got something in his mouth to carry, even when he goes to the toilet!

Last week, he bypassed puppy pre-school and the rest and went straight to University!

Edited November 7, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyBlue]

What a cute little bundle of shredding teeth and claws. I take it that Mr TSD took photos whilst you cleaned up :p

[The Spotted Devil]

He's a bit cute eh! Smart as a whip, the little devil. Nah, a fellow PhD student who I share an office with was having a ball snapping photos and I had to clean up. The look on my Prof's face when he came to chat with us was priceless Young B had everyone smitten, attended the research group meeting and was on our group's Facebook page by lunchtime :D

Much more food motivated today all of a sudden and Em finally relented and played with him!

[Misteri]

Hi retrieving people!

Christmas is coming and so I'm after recommendations for a book on retrieving that I can not-so-subtly ask for. If it has puppy-oriented info in it would be fantastic. Anyone know of any good books for a retrieving novice? :)

[The Spotted Devil]

Welcome Misteri :)

Probably need a little more info - your experience in dog training generally, retrieving specifically, breed/age of dog, methods you want to use, what level of competition you are aiming at etc. There are a number of books that I have read and have taken bits and pieces from all of them. And you really need to find some retrieving people to get you started - they have been my best resource. You'll get lots of ideas from this thread as well - probably worth having a good read from the start when you have the time.

I love "The Focussed Puppy" from Clean Run. I also have "Positive Gundogs" - it's not too bad in terms of learning theory but doesn't give you a real insight into the complexities of retrieving. The Americans really know their stuff in terms of retrieving concepts - I don't always agree with their approach or interpretation of learning theory but they are still worthwhile.

Edited November 8, 2012 by The Spotted Devil

[Misteri]

Way too busy at work today to trawl through 80+ pages, but I will get to it sometime :)

I don't know very much about retrieving trials, but I know some people I can bug for more info. I looked at the ACT Gundogs site, but there isn't a trial on for ages. I currently have a JRTx that I am training for CCD and Rally Novice (we are so close, yet so far away), but I have no experience with retrieving other than a formal obedience retrieve. I am hoping to get a Toller puppy next year to eventually compete with in a variety of doggie sports.

I love The Focussed Puppy too, I will definitely be re-reading it soon. I will check out Positive Gundogs, thanks! :)

[FHRP]

Misteri, the ACT Gundog Society has a few people who meet regularly to train for retrieving trials, although there are no formal classes. Newcomers are welcome :) Over Summer there are no trials locally (Victoria seems to be the only state that doesn't break for a decent time over Summer) but training continues for the dedicated few, usually involving lots of water work.

[fetchindawgs]

Hi there TSD. It was nice to meet you while in Victoria. Sorry we didn't get to chat though, I was too busy trying to keep dry and warm !

Cute pup, but what a terror.

Misteri, good on you for doing your reading and research before you get your puppy. Read as much as you can, talk to as many different trainers as possible, ask questions and note down the answers so you can refer to them later. You will forget a lot that is told. Go to training days and as many trials as you can. I know that the ACT doesn't have many trials, and have a very small bank of trialers, but if you can do a weekend down to Victoria for one of their trials you could watch, learn and question all at the same time. Try also to have a buddy that has trained a dog in retrieving, preferably to a higher level, and when you begin training with your pup go out with your buddy on a regular basis. The books you will read should give you info on starting your 8 week old pup with basics. Good luck.

[The Spotted Devil]

Nice to meet you too fetchin! But OMG how COLD was it! Especially the Saturday - I had so many layers on and was still shivering when I was gun stewarding.

[fetchindawgs]

Yes TSD, Saturday particularly, was the most dreadful day for retrieving. I think every inch of me was damp, my hands were so cold, my lips almost frozen I couldn't keep the whistle in my mouth and it actually blew out of my lips a couple of times when I blew. Couldn't feel it at all. The poor dogs were so miserable sitting in that cold and wet for so many hours and even with their coats on they soon became saturated and uncomfortable for them. My husband came up to me during the second run and asked how I was and I said to him I could gladly just pack up the dogs and go back to the van, I was so over it. Sunday was a bit better, but not by much.