Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[The Spotted Devil]

I think Vic is similar to NSW in that competitors often steward - have done so when running LL's Yo and will do so again. Sometimes it's hard if you're entered in 2 stakes (e.g. which I did with Yo) or you are running 2 dogs (which I probably will do next season) but I really enjoy it and it's a great way to learn.

With our club agility trials I don't steward but I do always help out - food for the stewards/judges lunch and/or help set up/pack down.

Before this stormy weather set in over the last few days I was out teaching Em angle backs. Now that she is really comfortable with left/right backs and overs, she thought I was completely bonkers but she did it nonetheless. Some more work to do in order to build on her understanding.

[RubyStar]

Getting stewards for any dog sport is a struggle here. It's a nightmare in agility and we've tried different incentives such as petrol vouchers, cash, raffles etc. but nothing has really made it easier.

I try to steward at least one day at our local trials if I'm not competing, but I must admit I'm past giving up an entire rare free weekend. If I'm trialing, I steward.

Agreed, I know they were having a hard time getting stewards for the State obedience trial last weekend and it's only giving up a few hours of your time and it's not out bush!

I stewarded quite often in agility waaaaay before I had any desire to trial in it myself. I've stewarded obedience a few times but I am mostly competing. The last time I offered to steward obedience I was also competing, so I was placed to go in last in another ring (one dog straight after the other), but the judge took forever to judge their small class so I was panicing madly about having enough time to prep my dogs for their own class.

I also have extremely rare spare weekends. My house and garden can attest to that! My "to-do" list is ever growing because I am forever doing dog things or have the odd family commitment. But I will give up what I can to help I even had Monday off work due to being sick but I dragged my sick butt out on a cold training night to put some people through their obedience graduation because it was a favour to my club I wanted to honour. So if there is anything extra I can do to help in the retrieving season next year, please let me know and I will do my best to pitch in my fair share. Sometimes (most times) it's hard to know how short trials are in helpers if you're not actively involved in that sport, unless it's widely advertised

Edited September 29, 2011 by RubyStar

[Livertreats]

I don't know how the Eastern States clubs cope, but in W.A. we have an old problem popping up again in retrieving. People not willing to do their bit for the sport ! I am being blunt, because it is true. The clubs and committees that run our trials need fresh faces and newbies into the sport need to realise that they have to be involved in the behind scenes work, otherwise this sport is just going to fizzle out and die.

It isn't just newbies either, there are some people who think being on a committee means a free pass to not help out at trials. As a judge and competitor, I can see it from both sides, but I have forfeited three full trials this season to judge them, plus organised the running of two other trials, and, worked in the field, often. Not just me either, but quite a few others, mostly All Age competitors, have given up weekends to work in trials they are not competing in. I think the people in this sport need a wake up call, that being, that if they don't get off their b...s and be involved, then some changes may have to occur. Namely, cancelling trials and these would be Novice & Restricted trials that would go.

Sorry to bitch, but I have just had our last trial for the year which I had to organise stewards for, and it was a task in itself. I did eventually get two people for the field, for whom I am grateful, but getting a Chief steward was near impossible. Right now, I am over trialling, and could happily say "I quit", but a verbal reminder at the AGMs about everyone's responsibility to our sport, is on the cards I think.

I can relate to where you are coming from but its not only retrieving that have the problem.

However, I hope that it will not be novice and restricted that get cancelled, I feel I do and have done more than my fair share of helping out at trials. Before I started retrieiving I helped at many retrieving trials, and since I started doing retrieving while I only did novice, I have stayed at every restricted trial and offered to help which is a lot more than others have done.

How many times have handlers sat back and watched people struggle with the equipment/birds back to the trailer or to the next run. If we all did a little to help each time some of us would not be sick of helping out.

I went to the last All Age trial to help, and a big thank you to Jean and Dave who let me go down with them, think if we could get a lift with people more would perhaps help out. Big test next year, when the State and National will be held two weekends in a row and I for one will not be camping out for 2 weekends, certainly will not be taking my 3 dogs to sit in the car all day. Will help out for 1 day each weekend.

[Mason_Gibbs]

All clubs battle for people to help out, northern suburbs has over 1000 membets and only 4 people ever volunteer to drive the van ( my husband does it). I think the big issue is as RS has said its really far to go to help out ,and the other issue is other club commitments on a sunday for us. I for one would go and help snd watch a lot more trials if they were closer but i know this is not always possible.

[fetchindawgs]

I don't know how the Eastern States clubs cope, but in W.A. we have an old problem popping up again in retrieving. People not willing to do their bit for the sport ! I am being blunt, because it is true. The clubs and committees that run our trials need fresh faces and newbies into the sport need to realise that they have to be involved in the behind scenes work, otherwise this sport is just going to fizzle out and die.

It isn't just newbies either, there are some people who think being on a committee means a free pass to not help out at trials. As a judge and competitor, I can see it from both sides, but I have forfeited three full trials this season to judge them, plus organised the running of two other trials, and, worked in the field, often. Not just me either, but quite a few others, mostly All Age competitors, have given up weekends to work in trials they are not competing in. I think the people in this sport need a wake up call, that being, that if they don't get off their b...s and be involved, then some changes may have to occur. Namely, cancelling trials and these would be Novice & Restricted trials that would go.

Sorry to bitch, but I have just had our last trial for the year which I had to organise stewards for, and it was a task in itself. I did eventually get two people for the field, for whom I am grateful, but getting a Chief steward was near impossible. Right now, I am over trialling, and could happily say "I quit", but a verbal reminder at the AGMs about everyone's responsibility to our sport, is on the cards I think.

I can relate to where you are coming from but its not only retrieving that have the problem.

However, I hope that it will not be novice and restricted that get cancelled, I feel I do and have done more than my fair share of helping out at trials. Before I started retrieiving I helped at many retrieving trials, and since I started doing retrieving while I only did novice, I have stayed at every restricted trial and offered to help which is a lot more than others have done.

How many times have handlers sat back and watched people struggle with the equipment/birds back to the trailer or to the next run. If we all did a little to help each time some of us would not be sick of helping out.

I went to the last All Age trial to help, and a big thank you to Jean and Dave who let me go down with them, think if we could get a lift with people more would perhaps help out. Big test next year, when the State and National will be held two weekends in a row and I for one will not be camping out for 2 weekends, certainly will not be taking my 3 dogs to sit in the car all day. Will help out for 1 day each weekend.

Yes, thanks for reminding me that we are not the only ones that have these problems. Of course it happens in all sports. I get the feeling that some people on this forum think I am directing this at them personally. Definitely not the case, and apologies if anyone has taken offence. Many people have worked very hard at our trials, and I agree that they are wonderful and keep the sport going. Livertreats, I know you offered to help last weekend, as did three other terrific people, and yours and their willingness to work so hard was appreciated so much.

This subject has been debated before, and these days especially in All Age, competitors are used to working in the field as well as work dogs. This rarely happens in the other stakes, but may have to be brought in because of the short supply of stewards. How would you feel about that ? Also, thanks to you and Rubystar for suggesting about a lift for helpers. I am sure that this could be looked at next year, and make it a safer proposition for all. Finally, I personally am not "sick" of helping. We keep doing it because we love the thing our dogs do in the field. Frustrated, yes at times. Committees are the ones that need a lot of help right now, I think, as this appears to be the most difficult area to keep people. Without the organisers ...................!!!

[RallyValley]

It is very sad what is happening in retrieving and field trials and many dog sports with volunteers. I try and steward at least once a year for the sports I can (obedience and agility) and am training to be a show steward too.

However I am one of those unlucky suckers who works most weekends, I hope that if I eventually compete in field or retrieving work I will be able to contribute too.

[Mason_Gibbs]

What they have brought in at our club is that everyone has to do something each yesr for the club - they can ask that and afford to lose members but in a sport like retrieving i guess we cant afford to lose people. I think as soon as the Retrievability tests come to WA more people will become interested in retrieving and get involved as it can be done on an oval if im not mistaken? Therefore closer for people to travel.

Once the people do that im sure they will be keen to move on to field trials

Edited October 3, 2011 by Mason_Gibbs

[mollipop]

Here in NSW it is rare to have dedicated stewards. It is usually the competitors that help out and it seems to work well.

I do what I can to help but don't feel experienced enough to go out on a thrower. Some of the competitors here get very cranky with "no birds".

Hopefully next season I will become more confident.

Have just spent the weekend at the United Retriever Club trial which was wonderfully organised and run.

Guess you can't blame the organisers for the bad weather!

Yesterday I went to the NSW state obedience titles and competed in the RATG. The judge set really interesting runs and we even had a water run.

Well there was a huge fuss from some of the competitors - "my dog won't go in the water" and even "my dog can't swim". Some even withdrew.

Makes you wonder what they think gundog work is.

We only had 1 qualifier in open and 2 in novice. My girl didn't get her first dummy from the water but spent the rest of the day as the recovery dog and retrieved dummies from the dam for at least 6 of the novice dogs! Why couldn't she find her own??

I also entered my dog in novice. He nailed the obedience part and the water run but won't work on land. He made it out to the first bush, stopped for a sniff and a wee then forgot what he was doing.

[SparkyTansy]

What a shame to read about the lack of stewards. I agree it is happening in every sport although I am not quite sure why there is an inclination to sit back and watch, expecting others to do the work.

I too, would like to make a suggestion, that perhaps if possible, some training or a handbook on stewards might make people more inclined to give it a try. I have not been to enough retrieving trials (one, ) to volunteer for stewarding, but i might be willing to give it a go if there was someone to run through the various steward activities in conjuction with a normal retrieving training day. I agree with RS, that the distance to travel can be taxing, and I would certainly be more inclined to volunteer (once I have actually been to watch a few more trials and know what's going on) in order to learn a bit more about the sport.

[Staff'n'Toller]

What a shame to read about the lack of stewards. I agree it is happening in every sport although I am not quite sure why there is an inclination to sit back and watch, expecting others to do the work.

I too, would like to make a suggestion, that perhaps if possible, some training or a handbook on stewards might make people more inclined to give it a try. I have not been to enough retrieving trials (one, ) to volunteer for stewarding, but i might be willing to give it a go if there was someone to run through the various steward activities in conjuction with a normal retrieving training day. I agree with RS, that the distance to travel can be taxing, and I would certainly be more inclined to volunteer (once I have actually been to watch a few more trials and know what's going on) in order to learn a bit more about the sport.

Quite right ST - a little info booklet/sheet would be good. I have driven the judge around at one trial, that's about it.

I love watching the dogs work so much, I get totally distracted also.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Staff'n'Toller

[RubyStar]

You get a chance to do gun steward duties at training days, and there is opportunity to jump on a thrower on training days, too

People are more than willing to show you/explain to you what to do at a trial. You can even sit out in the field and place blinds, etc which isn't hard. I admit I am a bit afraid to be on the thrower in a trial as I am scared that it will be one too many misthrows due to my inexperience and I don't want to upset the competitors But I am gaining more experience with the thrower at training so I hope I can get the confidence to give it a go next season.

[gspx3]

Here in NSW it is rare to have dedicated stewards. It is usually the competitors that help out and it seems to work well.

I do what I can to help but don't feel experienced enough to go out on a thrower. Some of the competitors here get very cranky with "no birds".

Hopefully next season I will become more confident.

Have just spent the weekend at the United Retriever Club trial which was wonderfully organised and run.

Guess you can't blame the organisers for the bad weather!

Yesterday I went to the NSW state obedience titles and competed in the RATG. The judge set really interesting runs and we even had a water run.

Well there was a huge fuss from some of the competitors - "my dog won't go in the water" and even "my dog can't swim". Some even withdrew.

Makes you wonder what they think gundog work is.

We only had 1 qualifier in open and 2 in novice. My girl didn't get her first dummy from the water but spent the rest of the day as the recovery dog and retrieved dummies from the dam for at least 6 of the novice dogs! Why couldn't she find her own??

I also entered my dog in novice. He nailed the obedience part and the water run but won't work on land. He made it out to the first bush, stopped for a sniff and a wee then forgot what he was doing.

Hey, Mollipop, guess you saw that we were entered in the UR trial but didn't make it as my girl was injured. Was really looking forward to it but - them's the breaks I suppose.

Re RATG at the state titles on Monday. Wouldn't you think people would read the rules??? Clearly states that retrieves MAY be on water. Drives me nuts that people enter things then bleat when it doesn't suit them. Shame that the pass rate was so low though. Never mind, we will just have to train and train over the summer and get into retrieving next year.

[RubyStar]

Never mind, we will just have to train and train over the summer and get into retrieving next year.

This is my plan too, but the sucky part about summer training is no cover to practice with! Damn you snakies While I have heaps I can do on ovals, Ruby still needs to gain confidence in hunting in cover and not give up so easily

[mollipop]

Yes, I noticed, GSP. I was looking forward to catching up and watching your girl work.

Hope she is recovering okay. You missed a great weekend but I'm sure you managed without the soaking from the rain.

At least it kept the snakes away!

Re the RATG, I think the judge was disappointed with the competitors' attitudes and the low pass rate.

I told her that I loved her runs and would rather fail doing something challenging than win getting a dummy in a park.

Pity though, cos it would have been Molly's title.

Think she was peeved cos she had been getting birds all weekend then was expected to fetch boring dummies!

[SparkyTansy]

with regards to the RATG, do they almost always use dummies over birds? I also think that the use of birds is an extra test for the dogs. you can see the dogs might mouth the dummies a little but they are hardly going to munch on them like they might a bird.

I was doing a bit of research on the RATG this morning and stumbled over the old thread from december2010/Jan 2011 about WA doing the RATG... that the retrieving club was going to do trianing in that as well? What ever happened? I know since tht they have said that it's unlikely to go ahead, but was there a reason?

[RubyStar]

with regards to the RATG, do they almost always use dummies over birds? I also think that the use of birds is an extra test for the dogs. you can see the dogs might mouth the dummies a little but they are hardly going to munch on them like they might a bird.

I was doing a bit of research on the RATG this morning and stumbled over the old thread from december2010/Jan 2011 about WA doing the RATG... that the retrieving club was going to do trianing in that as well? What ever happened? I know since tht they have said that it's unlikely to go ahead, but was there a reason?

Did they??

The retrieving club put on a demo at the training days earlier in the year (unfortunately I missed it due to another commitment). I think there are a couple of judges qualified to judge it now, but I am not sure why we haven't had one yet. My guess is the possibility of lack of entries But I don't really know. Fingers crossed we get some held next year!

Oh and I am pretty sure only dummies are used in RATG, not birds.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I emailed Lynne and we will hopefully be having some RATG's next year they just waiting for a club to host it..

[Livertreats]

The rules actually say that they can use either pigeons or dummies.

Not sure why it has not started here, I am sure we now have judges who are authorised to judge it. Maybe the clubs have decided they have enough to do with the retrieving trials and have not applied to run RATG trials. I dont think they have to be run on ovals either, sure they said at the training day it can be in light cover which I think is more interesting for the dogs, also the use of birds as well.

[RubyStar]

The rules actually say that they can use either pigeons or dummies.

Thanks for clarifying. I was just going off what I am sure I had read in this thread and didn't actually go and look at the rules

Saying that though, do you think clubs would opt for birds when dummies are acceptable? Less hassle to just make competitors bring their own dummies, and we all know the less organisation involved the better to get things off the ground!

Edit: I'm not fussed either way, though. Just means I have to convince Millie to pick a bird up, not look at me with a look of horror that says "but mum, it's dead!"

Edited October 5, 2011 by RubyStar

[SparkyTansy]

Hmmm maybe I mixed it up with something else that isn't going to happen... but that's good that it will go ahead when a club opts to run it. I won't be able to give it a try until Ari returns to hand but I read the rules this morning and it seemed quite interesting. Yes the rules definitely say dummies or birds, however if birds are chosen, it's the club that provides them, and if dummies, the owner must provide. Since my bitch refuses to retrieve a dummy on land, that would probably count her out! I would be interested in attending one if it does happen. The obvious benefit to this is that more people might give it a go if it doesn't take 2 hours to get there and back, and I am sure there are plenty of locations that can be used which have light cover and/or water.