Retrieving & Field Training Talk

[RubyStar]

OK so most other sports seem to be creating their own threads, so it's about time the Retrieving folk got one for themselves

Feel free to post anything Retrieving related in here! Training, trialling, brags, questions, etc etc!

I thought I'd get the ball rolling because I actually do have a question I'm hoping some of you could help me with. I haven't started training anything with the whistle yet because for a start, I am not sure what the best kind of whistle is to buy. When you ask people, the answer generally is "whatever you're comfortable with", but there are soooooooooo many types of whistles out there, many not suited for retrieving, that it is a daunting task for a newbie to attempt such a simple task as purchasing a whistle!

I bought a couple from Clean Run because I was told to use whatever, but they sound SHOCKING! Ugh! Can anyone please post up links to online stores that sell good ones and perhaps advise what brand/model you personally use and why?

Lastly, I'm a bit confused as to what to teach to the whistle and how to do it. I know I need/want to teach a sit to the whistle, which I will be doing as one "pip", and then I need a recall one (type of "pipping" yet to be decided!), but is there anything else I need to teach? And how do you go about teaching the sit (or stop) to whistle?

Hopefully that's enough to get the ball rolling! Looking forward to some responses!

Edited June 6, 2011 by RubyStar

[Staff'n'Toller]

I think I have a clear Roy Gonia whistle. Did an order with someone else with gundogsupply.com or a site like that for bumpers etc.

[FHRP]

Sounds like a thread for lablover

Roy Gonia whistles are popular over here with trialers, I use the 'ordinary' one http://www.dogsafield.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R011-017 but the big guys use a Mega whistle which directs the sound better http://www.dogsafield.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R011-018 I started with my old Netball referee whistle which worked fine too

To teach a dog to sit to whistle I will have the dog on lead, toot the whistle then immediately tell them to sit. Repeat several times untl they start to associate the toot with the sit and 'anticipate', then remove the sit command and reward the sit on whistle Then I change where the dog is in relation to me and distance from me. I have a sit whistle (single toot) and a recall whistle (several toots). Other people have other whistles to signal other things as well, but they are the basic ones. I have introduced a turn whislte for field work, just to confuse things

[RubyStar]

Now with your sit whistle, is your requirement that your dog has to turn to you first and sit, or they can sit looking in any which direction? I would like to teach my dog that when I blow the whistle, she is to turn to look at me and sit immediately. Just wondering how I'd achieve the turn and look at me first portion, without confusing her

If you do this already, how is it different to your turn whistle for field work?

And thanks for the whistle links, guys, will have a look

Edited December 3, 2010 by RubyStar

[The Spotted Devil]

I've been playing the 2 food game with Em to practice sits - she faces me by default. She isn't working far away from me yet but you can see the little cogs turning

[RubyStar]

I managed to teach Ruby to turn and sit facing me for box sendaway work for obedience... perhaps I could get the whistle out and introduce it that way?

[FHRP]

I have not had to train the dog to face me on the whistle eigther really, like TSD, my dogs turn and face me by default. If I give a sit whistle while the dog is in heel position, I expect them to sit in the heel position, otherwise the need to face me as a directional cue is given next. Treating for the sit gets them turning pretty quick Introducing handling drills to the dog gets them understanding pretty quick they need to face you! If in the paddock my dog does sit crooked I will give a come in whistle to straighten them up so that they can take a handle (over or back) better.... well, that's the theory

[RubyStar]

Ah ok I see so in the training they learn to face you anyway, so no need to teach it separately. You can see I haven't started training this I can see how that works now as Ruby automatically turns to face me in the box and I never taught her to do that as a separate exercise

I don't even want to think about directional cues at this stage, it may make my head hurt!

FHRP, can I come and train with you

[Aidan3]

I've been playing the 2 food game with Em to practice sits

Hi TSD, could you explain the 2 food game for me? Sounds interesting.

I'm all inspired, might take the old boy out for a few sessions in between semesters. He was looking pretty good last summer, then we did nothing during winter and now he is running in.

[beagie]

Ah ok I see so in the training they learn to face you anyway, so no need to teach it separately. You can see I haven't started training this I can see how that works now as Ruby automatically turns to face me in the box and I never taught her to do that as a separate exercise

I don't even want to think about directional cues at this stage, it may make my head hurt!

FHRP, can I come and train with you

Yes dogs usualy turn and face you and sit by default, they are not marked on whether they sit straight or not the only marking for obedience is when you are heeling up the race to the start peg. Retrieving is a straight out straight back exercise, (after they have made the pick up that is) you need to be able to direct your dog to go left or right or back so you can use different toots for each thing. Most people use silent whistles, I have always used a shepherds whistle, I think it is a matter of taste. Your dog is going to go on the scent of the bird wherever it has dropped directions are not usualy used until the dog is out of novice it is not like training in obedience the dog needs to be able to work naturaly as a gun dog should Beagie

[RallyValley]

RS I seriously came on to start exactly this thread

I don't currently have a gundog but I am looking at getting a utility gundog breed in a couple of years and I really want to train up to Utility gundog ability test level. So I have a few questions too.

1. If you compete in another state besides WA do you have to have a gun licence?

2. Would you seriously never play tug with a dog you wanted to do retrieving with?

3. Is there a good resource out there for someone who wants to teach a dog retrieving without any force?

4. Is there a cheap store somewhere online to buy dummies and those mock birds?

5 (Probably mainly for FHRP) Do you find having a Utility Gundog makes it harder to compete in retrieveing trials against the retrievers? Also are there any good UG reference books out there for learning more out Utility Gundogs work and how to train them?

The Spotted Devil; Please please please can you journal your pup's progress in the thread.

[FHRP]

I don't currently have a gundog but I am looking at getting a utility gundog breed in a couple of years and I really want to train up to Utility gundog ability test level. So I have a few questions too. :D

1. If you compete in another state besides WA do you have to have a gun licence?

You don't need a firearms licence to compete in a Utility Gundog Ability Test. The only test that requires a gun to be fired (a primer only) is the Retrieving Test and you can have someone handle the gun for you. To compete in Retrieving trials you do need a Firearms licence in some states such as Victoria. NSW is now covered by a licence the club gets, so individuals no longer needs one. Can't comment on any other states though, but there are allowances in the rules for a steward to handle the gun.

2. Would you seriously never play tug with a dog you wanted to do retrieving with?

I find none of my Gundogs are big tuggers anyway, but we do have small games of tug at times. I am less inclined to do it with my GSP who is not as gentle with his mouth, but my Vizsla has the softest mouth with game so I have no issues tugging with him.

3. Is there a good resource out there for someone who wants to teach a dog retrieving without any force?

Someone else might be able to give more specifics, but there are a few Positive Gundog training books around. I have "Positive Gun Dog" and there are Yahoo email groups for positive Gundog Training. I have watched quite a few US DVDs that use electric collars and I use a lot of their principles without the force.

4. Is there a cheap store somewhere online to buy dummies and those mock birds?

Please let me kow if you find one!! I have bought lots of dummies through Dogs Afield in the USA. Shipped by sea though, so it's slow, but shipping costs otherwise are just horendous!

5 (Probably mainly for FHRP) Do you find having a Utility Gundog makes it harder to compete in retrieveing trials against the retrievers? Also are there any good UG reference books out there for learning more out Utility Gundogs work and how to train them?

A Utility Gundog is a jack of all trades where as the Retriever breeds are specialised. So, Utility Gundogs are not going to be as naturally good at Retrieving as a dedicated Retrieving breed. But, they are more than capable!! You have to understand why they work the way they do, how they hunt differently, bigger and further :D My GSP's sire is a RtCh and was 2nd in the Retrieving Nationals in 2009, so the Utility Gundogs can certainly be competitive. However he has been known to lock on point when sent out for a retrieve In the lower levels UGs can do particularly well but when it comes to All Age where it's all about lines and control, the Labs really excell. Labs seem to handle the repetitive drill work better than the smart UGs ;) This year GSPs were the second most numerous breed placing at trials, after Labs. Certainly in NSW they are probably the 2nd most popular breed trialed. Vizslas, not so much ;)

So what breed of Utility Gundog are you looking at RallyValley??

[RallyValley]

I am looking at an LM and the litter that would be ideal is planned to be mated this time next year. Attached is a pic of the grandsire. :D I am doing a trip east next year to meet some breeders and dogs and to make my mind up for sure.

EFS

Edited December 3, 2010 by RallyValley

[mollipop]

Just got a parcel from Dogs Afield and can recommend them.

I got the Roy Gonia Meg Whistle and starting my whistle training - 1 blow for sit and 3 for come.

The dogs need to face you whe they sit so you can give them directions.

Think I'm going to use the whistle in the new RA tests too so it naturally leads on to non slip.

I don't think you should play tug or snatch things from a working gundog - could teach them to hold on tighter ad develop a hard mouth.

Bought a Dead fowl duck as well. The guys love it. It's realistic cos the head hangs loose like a dead bird.

Dummies are hard to come by. I just made rabbit skin ones but now they cant be used.

As FHRP said, be careful with the postage costs.

Dogs Afield have some books and videos about training.

Great idea for a thread. Just need some photos now.

We went gundog training last weekend with my 2 younger dogs. The old girl was busting to have a go and did a very nice mark, over a river and up a hill on the other bank. She nearly got washed down stream but brought the bird back.

[The Spotted Devil]

I've been playing the 2 food game with Em to practice sits

Hi TSD, could you explain the 2 food game for me? Sounds interesting.

I'm all inspired, might take the old boy out for a few sessions in between semesters. He was looking pretty good last summer, then we did nothing during winter and now he is running in.

Hi Aiden

Basically it's an exercise I nicked from the obedience people :D Use food or toys - but the food can't crumble or be hard to see. With the dog next to you, toss the food a short distance (I say go!) When the dog turns towards you (you may need to call their name initially) toss the food in the opposite direction. Repeat. You can ask the dog to run faster and further. Great for building motivation in my Dalmatian and is good to get the dog running away from and towards you - drop on recall practice, speedy sits etc. Hope that makes sense as I'm at an agility trial!

Current progress with Emily is one very tired puppy asleep in her crate. So much for working lines

[Aidan3]

Basically it's an exercise I nicked from the obedience people Use food or toys - but the food can't crumble or be hard to see. With the dog next to you, toss the food a short distance (I say go!) When the dog turns towards you (you may need to call their name initially) toss the food in the opposite direction. Repeat.

Ahh, got it! I do it with balls, tugs and bite sleeves. Never thought to do it with food but now that you mention what you've been doing with it I can see the benefits, very cool!

Here's a good vid for anyone working on the stop-sit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=dOgGcUd_GcA

[RubyStar]

RallyValley - maybe we could mull over a couple of sites to purchase some things and combine our order to reduce postage? ;) I'd like a dokken thingy (), a couple of whistles and maybe a book or DVD.

In regards to the tug thing, as I never had any intention to do retrieving with my Lab when she was a pup, we started tugging, so any damage we've done to a soft mouth has well and truly been done by now. She enjoys tugging so I am using it for obedience work on occasion, so I guess I need to teach soft mouth with some shaping exercises - I'm sure the dogs are smart enough to see the different between a tuggy toy and a dummy or game. My girl is almost 4 years old now so a bit later than normal to be starting on retrieving, but I am using her as my learning dog and maybe if we have a good time at it I might get the bug and get another Gundog (though I do have my heart set on something that isn't a gundog next :D)

Think I'm going to use the whistle in the new RA tests too so it naturally leads on to non slip.

I would like to get started on the whistle training and intend on using the whistle in the RA tests, too. No point in not, makes the test feel closer to the real thing for me I guess :D

[RubyStar]

Great idea for a thread. Just need some photos now.

Yes, more photos please people! Thanks for posting yours. I don't have any photos of my girl "in action", but would love to see some others

[FHRP]

A couple of pics, but I am always hesitant to put up pics of dogs with game on DOL, too much chance of the thread being railroaded but feel free to browse my trial and training photo's though at http://www.flickr.com/photos/91992433@N00/...57601962044070/

Polo

Rogan

and even Flynn pretending to be a retriever!!

Edited December 4, 2010 by FHRP

[beagie]

Great idea for a thread. Just need some photos now.

Yes, more photos please people! Thanks for posting yours. I don't have any photos of my girl "in action", but would love to see some others

Ruby Star most of the things you need like dummies etc. can be bought from the Secretary of the retrieving club here in WA> a very helpful lady will go to endless lengths to help. Beagie