How Much Raw To Feed(weight)

[dogmate]

Hi

Just off the phone from a herbalist as my dog is epyleptic and we are trying some things before going down the track of heave meds. We are swapping her diet to all natural and esp. no wheat after i got off the phone i thought mmm i wonder how much meat i should buy weight wise per night. Does any one have a rough average 22kg dalmatian female desexed. I know i can ring her back but thought i'd try here

Thanks

[sllebasi]

at a guess i would think one chicken breast/one piece of steak type thing. my dog is 24 kgs and that is all she gets with 3/4 cup veges, egg, and other stuff mixed together.

my dog also gets tin fish - one small can i think they are 120 grams each tin??

may or may not be suitable for your particular dog and breed, but i think it has been said on here before the total meal should be 10% of the dogs weight. not sure what proportion meat to veges to pasta should be though??

[dogmate]

Thanks i can use that as a guide unfortunately she is allergic to chicken tell you shes a troubled young girl.....

Is the fish fed at the same time as the meat.

I also aren't allowed to give her pasta as this herbalist believes that some seizures can be contributed to wheat

i'm willing to try this and see what happens can't make her much worse

at a guess i would think one chicken breast/one piece of steak type thing. my dog is 24 kgs and that is all she gets with 3/4 cup veges, egg, and other stuff mixed together.

my dog also gets tin fish - one small can i think they are 120 grams each tin??

may or may not be suitable for your particular dog and breed, but i think it has been said on here before the total meal should be 10% of the dogs weight. not sure what proportion meat to veges to pasta should be though??

[Leema]

If this is any use: my dogs are 6-7 kgs, and eat 1-2 chicken wings a night. Chicken wings have a bit of fat on them, though (from the skin).

I believe there is a % you're supposed to feed (i.e. % of your dogs weight), and I'm sure someone can chime in with what it is soon enough.

[Sandra777]

An adult dog would probably do well on between 2 & 3 percent of it's IDEAL bodyweight per day. Puppies, up to 10% or more may be needed.

So, assuming your bitch is a good weight at 22kg this would mean between 440g & 660g of food per day.

Depending on who you want to believe about 60-80% of this should be meat, 10-20% offal meat and 10-20% vege matter or carbohydrates

The meat however shouldn't be lean meat as we would eat (unless advised otherwise). Dogs are designed to eat meat on the bone.

If you aimed at 80% ''meat'' then IMO at least 1/3 of that weight would need to be edible bone...

440g of food and 80% is meat = 352 (350) grams = 116g of bone

Of course it's hard to judge how much is bone and how much is meat without taking it all off the bone which sort of defeats the whole exercise, so in reality....

if you want to feed 350g of meat/bone a meaty bone(s) (ie can't see bone through the meat) weighing about 120-150g & the rest in plain raw meat with no bone would be about right.

Sounds complicated but sit down with a sheet of paper and a calculator..

22kg dog = 22,000g x 2% = 440g 22,000 x 3% = 660g. If she is hard to keep weight on maybe start at the higher figure - I will use 500g

Between 60 & 80 % meat/bone

I'll use 70% so 500g x 70% = 350g.

1/3 bone = 115g. So roughly speaking a meaty bone weighing 150g + 200g of plain meat is about right

Offal (heart, kidney, liver) say 15% so 500g x 15% = 75g.

Other stuff (pulped vege or other carb) = 75g.

Don't get wound up about balancing every single meal, it's balance over time (7-10 days) that matters.

When raw feeding the amount is really dependent on the condition of the dog so if she gains weight give her less, loses weight give her more - you need to be hands on and assess the dog and what she's been doing every day (lazy day in the backyard, less food; busy day running up and down the beach, more food)

Edited December 2, 2010 by Sandra777

[dogmate]

Thanks Sandra777 fantastic explanation i have printed that out and stuck it on my fridge i guess its a bit of trial and error till we get the amounts sorted but nice to have arough guide

An adult dog would probably do well on between 2 & 3 percent of it's IDEAL bodyweight per day. Puppies, up to 10% or more may be needed.

So, assuming your bitch is a good weight at 22kg this would mean between 440g & 660g of food per day.

Depending on who you want to believe about 60-80% of this should be meat, 10-20% offal meat and 10-20% vege matter or carbohydrates

The meat however shouldn't be lean meat as we would eat (unless advised otherwise). Dogs are designed to eat meat on the bone.

If you aimed at 80% ''meat'' then IMO at least 1/3 of that weight would need to be edible bone...

440g of food and 80% is meat = 352 (350) grams = 116g of bone

Of course it's hard to judge how much is bone and how much is meat without taking it all off the bone which sort of defeats the whole exercise, so in reality....

if you want to feed 350g of meat/bone a meaty bone(s) (ie can't see bone through the meat) weighing about 120-150g & the rest in plain raw meat with no bone would be about right.

Sounds complicated but sit down with a sheet of paper and a calculator..

22kg dog = 22,000g x 2% = 440g 22,000 x 3% = 660g. If she is hard to keep weight on maybe start at the higher figure - I will use 500g

Between 60 & 80 % meat/bone

I'll use 70% so 500g x 70% = 350g.

1/3 bone = 115g. So roughly speaking a meaty bone weighing 150g + 200g of plain meat is about right

Offal (heart, kidney, liver) say 15% so 500g x 15% = 75g.

Other stuff (pulped vege or other carb) = 75g.

Don't get wound up about balancing every single meal, it's balance over time (7-10 days) that matters.

When raw feeding the amount is really dependent on the condition of the dog so if she gains weight give her less, loses weight give her more - you need to be hands on and assess the dog and what she's been doing every day (lazy day in the backyard, less food; busy day running up and down the beach, more food)

[Collstar]

feeding a raw meat diet is a fantastic idea! it should keep her healthy! if you want to feed raw DONT mix it with vegies, a dogs digestive system isnt able to digest plant material, and dont benefit from vegies at all, they are carnivours!. and its a really good idea to stay away from wheat!

as sandra77 said 2 to 3% of ideal adult weight is a good guide line, however if you find you dalmation is looking a little on the fat side then you just cut back on how much meat you're feeding.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Collstar

[woodbyne]

So do you feed no vegies or do you feed them on a seperate day?

feeding a raw meat diet is a fantastic idea! it should keep her healthy! if you want to feed raw DONT mix it with vegies, a dogs digestive system isnt able to digest plant material, and dont benefit from vegies at all, they are carnivours!. and its a really good idea to stay away from wheat!

as sandra77 said 2 to 3% of ideal adult weight is a good guide line, however if you find you dalmation is looking a little on the fat side then you just cut back on how much meat you're feeding.

[Collstar]

I dont feed any vegies at all!! like i said dogs are carnivores, and there digestive system is not designed to digest plant material or carbohydrates!! therefore they dont benefit from eating vegies! so forget vegies all together!

it is suggested to feed 80% meat (meat includes intestines) 10% organ (liver, heart, spleen, etc) and 10% edible bone. this is a guideline that was created to reflect what wolves and wild dogs would consume when they eat whole prey.

you can also supplement the raw diet with whole animal eg rabbit, chicken, fish or what ever you can get your hands on.

with dals make sure you dont feed too much liver, it is high in something called puriens which causes urinary stones in dalmations

Edited December 2, 2010 by Collstar

[Dogsfevr]

Make sure you keep in mind though Dallies are predisposed to stones & the diet should also consider what can create this issue as well.

Many meats can be an issue here so be sure to research thoroughly & understand changing the diet within this breed the effects it can have

[Collstar]

Make sure you keep in mind though Dallies are predisposed to stones & the diet should also consider what can create this issue as well.

Many meats can be an issue here so be sure to research thoroughly & understand changing the diet within this breed the effects it can have

I'm very sure, though not 100%, that the only things you need to look out for when feeding dals is organs, such as liver and possibly heart that are high in purines!

some people will argue that high protein levels which are found in these organs contribute to stone development, but a dog cant live healthily with out enough protein in its diet! So its not a good idea to feed an adult dogs a restricted protein diet. its the purines that you have to watch out for!

a raw diet, contrary to what you might think, is in fact LOWer in protein than most high quality kibble foods. you have to remember that meat has a very high water content as well as a little fat, so its not 100% protein! Quite often, most meats have at most 30% protein levels, usually less.

also because it is high in water, your dalmation is getting more water than if it was only fed on kibble, therefore reducing the risk of dehydration and the formation of kidney stones!

[Dogsfevr]

Make sure you keep in mind though Dallies are predisposed to stones & the diet should also consider what can create this issue as well.

Many meats can be an issue here so be sure to research thoroughly & understand changing the diet within this breed the effects it can have

I'm very sure, though not 100%, that the only things you need to look out for when feeding dals is organs, such as liver and possibly heart that are high in purines!

some people will argue that high protein levels which are found in these organs contribute to stone development, but a dog cant live healthily with out enough protein in its diet! So its not a good idea to feed an adult dogs a restricted protein diet. its the purines that you have to watch out for!

a raw diet, contrary to what you might think, is in fact LOWer in protein than most high quality kibble foods. you have to remember that meat has a very high water content as well as a little fat, so its not 100% protein! Quite often, most meats have at most 30% protein levels, usually less.

also because it is high in water, your dalmation is getting more water than if it was only fed on kibble, therefore reducing the risk of dehydration and the formation of kidney stones!

I am aware of that also having a breed predisposed BUT many people aren't i have seen bad management in raw feeding within my own breed & the issues it has created BUT quantities in all the meats still play a factor which many people still don't consider a factor

Like all things there are varying views but something that must be remembered in breeds with issues in this area & not all people are aware or made informed off

"Green Light" Purines. The following foods are considered virtually purine-free and get the "green light" in terms of being used in diets and as treats for dogs predisposed to forming stones:

* Whole grain, yeast-free breads and cereals

* Most vegetables, including potatoes (see exceptions below)

* Fruits (avoid acidic citrus)

* Nuts (including peanut butter)

* Pasta

* Eggs

* Cheese

* Milk

* Butter

"Yellow Light" Purines. The following foods are considered to contain a moderate level of purines and are acceptable in diets for stone-forming dog breeds. Most or even all of your Dalmatian's protein sources should come from this list as opposed to the "Red Light" purines listed in the next section.

* Most poultry, including chicken and turkey

* Fish and shellfish (see exceptions below)

* Lamb, pork, and beef

* Oats and oatmeal

"Red Light" Purines. The following foods contain the highest levels of purines and should be avoided as much as possible to help prevent stone formation:

* Organ meats – kidneys, livers, brains, hearts, sweetbreads, etc.

* Game meats such as venison, duck, and goose

* High-purine seafoods – sardines, mackerel, mussels, and scallops

* High-purine vegetables – cauliflower, spinach, peas, mushrooms, and legumes (kidney beans, navy & lima beans, lentils)

* Yeast (including brewer's yeast)

* Gravies

[dogmate]

Hi

My dal is very troublesome being allergic to chicken..... it gives her chronic diahrea with what i can only describe as stomach cramps as she arches her back like in pain. Its been a while so today i'm going to get some chicken and try that before i change anything else in her diet so that i can see if shes still allergic/intolerant. We have to avoid all wheat products so its quite hard. I know about dal being stoneformers thank god so far ita about the only thing she hasn't had but i'm sure that she could try that as well ..... like my vet said she doesn't do things the easy way and like maximum disaster . I think i will giver her some vegies as i thought the idea was to replicate the stomach contents using mushed/pureed vegies correct me if i'm wrong as i'm learning the steep curve.

Thanks

Make sure you keep in mind though Dallies are predisposed to stones & the diet should also consider what can create this issue as well.

Many meats can be an issue here so be sure to research thoroughly & understand changing the diet within this breed the effects it can have

I'm very sure, though not 100%, that the only things you need to look out for when feeding dals is organs, such as liver and possibly heart that are high in purines!

some people will argue that high protein levels which are found in these organs contribute to stone development, but a dog cant live healthily with out enough protein in its diet! So its not a good idea to feed an adult dogs a restricted protein diet. its the purines that you have to watch out for!

a raw diet, contrary to what you might think, is in fact LOWer in protein than most high quality kibble foods. you have to remember that meat has a very high water content as well as a little fat, so its not 100% protein! Quite often, most meats have at most 30% protein levels, usually less.

also because it is high in water, your dalmation is getting more water than if it was only fed on kibble, therefore reducing the risk of dehydration and the formation of kidney stones!

I am aware of that also having a breed predisposed BUT many people aren't i have seen bad management in raw feeding within my own breed & the issues it has created BUT quantities in all the meats still play a factor which many people still don't consider a factor

Like all things there are varying views but something that must be remembered in breeds with issues in this area & not all people are aware or made informed off

"Green Light" Purines. The following foods are considered virtually purine-free and get the "green light" in terms of being used in diets and as treats for dogs predisposed to forming stones:

* Whole grain, yeast-free breads and cereals

* Most vegetables, including potatoes (see exceptions below)

* Fruits (avoid acidic citrus)

* Nuts (including peanut butter)

* Pasta

* Eggs

* Cheese

* Milk

* Butter

"Yellow Light" Purines. The following foods are considered to contain a moderate level of purines and are acceptable in diets for stone-forming dog breeds. Most or even all of your Dalmatian's protein sources should come from this list as opposed to the "Red Light" purines listed in the next section.

* Most poultry, including chicken and turkey

* Fish and shellfish (see exceptions below)

* Lamb, pork, and beef

* Oats and oatmeal

"Red Light" Purines. The following foods contain the highest levels of purines and should be avoided as much as possible to help prevent stone formation:

* Organ meats – kidneys, livers, brains, hearts, sweetbreads, etc.

* Game meats such as venison, duck, and goose

* High-purine seafoods – sardines, mackerel, mussels, and scallops

* High-purine vegetables – cauliflower, spinach, peas, mushrooms, and legumes (kidney beans, navy & lima beans, lentils)

* Yeast (including brewer's yeast)

* Gravies

[Collstar]

hmm if she doesnt cope with chicken very well, then maybe just try introducing little pieces at a time. chicken is a great meat to start out on, but if it doesnt agree with her stomach then you will have to try something else. beef, lamb, fish what ever.

i have heard about the whole 'replicate the stomach content of prey' and im still not sure what to think about that!

when a dog consumes the stomach of an animal, of course it is also going to eat the content of it too, but wherther or not it does any good for the dog is another question. i dont think it benefits the dog at all, however it wont hurt your dog if you only give her small amounts of vege. dont over do it.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Collstar

[Sandra777]

when a dog consumes the stomach of an animal

Except for small creatures such as rabbits and the like - wolves do NOT consume the stomach contents. There are numerous modern studies to show this, the wolves will rip the stomach/rumen/whatever and shake the contents out. Makes sense - the stomach of a herbivore is full of very strong acids to break down cellulose etc.

They DO eat the contents of the intestine - which has already been partially digested. Anyone who's ever had their dogs around cattle horses or sheep will know how much they enjoy the poop of larger herbivores - which is also full of predigested vege matter.

[*Bones*]

Good luck with your dalmation

feeding a raw meat diet is a fantastic idea! it should keep her healthy! if you want to feed raw DONT mix it with vegies, a dogs digestive system isnt able to digest plant material, and dont benefit from vegies at all, they are carnivours

Dogs do digest plant matter, the cellulose is the problem. Put veges in a food processor or juicer to bring the cellulose to a digestible state. Vegetables provide the balance - minerals and vitamins to add to the meat, as do eggs, brown rice, fish and so on.

[dogmate]

I'm worried about trying to get the balnace of vitamins and minerals in an all meat diet. My friend feeds her dogs the raw meat eggs yoghurt but she uses the froz vegies from the supermarket how do they go on them? the corn comes out like corn i know that... If they are ok do you cook them first i think they are already cooked the frozen ones not sure i think she uses the froz ones to save time. I guess its trial and error and watching her weight i'm worried she will go all skinny.

Do you add any oils if so what type

Good luck with your dalmation

feeding a raw meat diet is a fantastic idea! it should keep her healthy! if you want to feed raw DONT mix it with vegies, a dogs digestive system isnt able to digest plant material, and dont benefit from vegies at all, they are carnivours

Dogs do digest plant matter, the cellulose is the problem. Put veges in a food processor or juicer to bring the cellulose to a digestible state. Vegetables provide the balance - minerals and vitamins to add to the meat, as do eggs, brown rice, fish and so on.

[sllebasi]

i grate all my veges (well i cheat and use the blender which has a grater attachment) and then put it in a crockpot with a little bit of water.

i also use fish oil and flaxseed oil which has helped enormously with arthritis, but am thinking that with your dog possibly not a good idea - maybe yogurt or acidophilus might be a better way to go for you - may need to ask your vet

[Sandra777]

I'm worried about trying to get the balnace of vitamins and minerals in an all meat diet.

Please, stop thinking of it as a "all meat diet". Meat alone is not the correct food for a dog.

Stop and consider what is actually in a prey animal - meat, brains, bones, offal, even eyeballs ( :p ) - and what is in your dog - meat, brains, bones, offal... are you getting the picture?

If you feed a variety of raw meaty BONES along with offal and chicken feet (Asian supermarkets) and anything else ''weird'' you can find locally (pigs heads are always a big hit with the check out chicks ) you are basically feeding your dog everything the prey animal is made up of.

It's not quite that simple because of the diet the prey animal might have eaten may be deficient in something, but this is why variety in meat sources is considered important.

I guess its trial and error and watching her weight i'm worried she will go all skinny.

If you adjust her food and put your hands on your dog every day if she ''goes all skinny" it will only be because YOU haven't been proactive in making the changes to her diet she needs. It takes longer than a day for a dog to get skinny, so if you see her looking a little slimmer up her food, if you see her getting fatter, reduce it. Really no different to what you would do for yourself or a child even

Do you add any oils if so what type

Sardines or mackrel in oil. Flaxseed oil is suggested by some but a lot of dogs are sensitive to it. Salmon oil is recommended but some might consider it pricey.

Don't start adding a whole bunch of stuff straight off. Firstly her digestion isn't used to it and secondly, if she reacts to something you have no way of knowing what it is. One new thing at a time, and the length of time between adding a new thing depends very much on the dog (3-4 days in most cases but a dog with complex issues, maybe 10-14 days)

Reeelax. Dogs have been eating random stuff for centuries and have thrived.

[persephone]

dogmate-

please take some time ...breathe... and before you rush into different foods- have a good read of this thread CLICKHERE

It will answer most of your queries, and give you lots of ideas !

A good raw diet has all sorts of yummies included - muscle meat is but a part of it!

Edited December 6, 2010 by persephone