Pet Shops

[Souff]

Souff - ducklings in petshops

How do you know these ducklings haven't been snatched from their mother from a local park?

I have an issue with ANY live animals being sold in petshops. Any kind of bird is meant to fly and I find it extremely cruel to clip a bird's wings or keep it in an enclosure where it can't fly.

If they had been "snatched from their mother in a local park" and were of the creamy yellow fluffy variety, then that would be a very good thing, because those are the DOMESTICATED varieties of duck that are robbing the natural habitat of our native species.

The snatcher would have also saved them from death by feral cats, death by snakes, death by eagles, or indeed from being run over on the roads.

If it makes you feel any better there is often no need to clip the wings of the domesticated ducks as they are a heavy bird and are usually not interested in flying.

Also, when clipping the wings of poultry, there is no pain to the bird if you are clipping in the correct place, so therefore there is no cruelty.

If you are causing the bird any pain then you are doing something wrong and should not be doing it.

Why don't you do some reading on Muscovy ducks and other domesticated varieties of duck. It is a very educational subject.

Souff

[BigPaws]

Yeah, not sure what world you're from Dju, but people do take wild bird babies and sell them. It's not as dramatic as you would like it to be.....sorry!

IMO pet shops should not sell anything live. They should sell pet food, toys, bedding, etc, provide advice and perhaps sell some human medication that is ok for pets.

I also think they should assist in animal rescue.

[BigPaws]

Souff - ok so the creamy yellow fluffy variety should be taken from the wild to help wildlife?

Sorry but I seriously doubt that a duck does more damage to our wildlife than say, a cat or irresponsible dog owners who allow their dogs to run off and chase/kill wildlife.

I'm going to assume that you're not so arrogant as to assume that I know nothing about birds...........I'm talking about ducks that can fly, not emus. I wouldn't know about clipping wings of birds because I would never do it

[Souff]

Yeah, not sure what world you're from Dju, but people do take wild bird babies and sell them. It's not as dramatic as you would like it to be.....sorry!

IMO pet shops should not sell anything live. They should sell pet food, toys, bedding, etc, provide advice and perhaps sell some human medication that is ok for pets.

I also think they should assist in animal rescue.

I think Dju might be from the same world as me

Bigpaws, domesticated ducks are NOT a native bird adn people do not go and snatch them from the wild. They have a duck setting on a dozen or so eggs and they hatch them out at home, and then sell them to the local pet shop or market as fluffy chicks, often yellow in colour but they also do come in other colours.

The Pekin ducks were domesticated thousands of years ago in China and the Muscovy ducks have been domesticated in the Americas for probably the same time period. These are the type of ducklings that you normally see available for sale. They make good pets if you have a garden and are happy to give them an area and provide a pond for them.

You really should do some reading.

Souff

[Souff]

Souff - ok so the creamy yellow fluffy variety should be taken from the wild to help wildlife?

Sorry but I seriously doubt that a duck does more damage to our wildlife than say, a cat or irresponsible dog owners who allow their dogs to run off and chase/kill wildlife.

I'm going to assume that you're not so arrogant as to assume that I know nothing about birds...........I'm talking about ducks that can fly, not emus. I wouldn't know about clipping wings of birds because I would never do it

When the numbers of ducks build up in parks and in the rivers, and they do very quickly, they are culled because they DO steal the food source and habitat of other native birds and the platypus, and then those species die out in the areas where the build up of ducks has been allowed to happen.

Anyone who has ducks or geese have a duty to keep them away from the local waterways and can get fined if they dont.

btw, there are heavy fines for anyone keeping native birds without a licence. No pet shop would risk that these days.

[Souff]

I wouldn't know about clipping wings of birds because I would never do it

It is actually much the same as a hairdresser cutting your hair, so next time you go in for a trim, think of the poultry (usually chooks) who get 1 wing trimmed ..... to keep them safely at home so that they don't meet a cruel death, courtesy of the neighbourhood cats and dogs, or the foxes and wild dogs in the bush.

[persephone]

Sorry but I seriously doubt that a duck does more damage to our wildlife than say, a cat or irresponsible dog owners who allow their dogs to run off and chase/kill wildlife.

Doubt no more.

Very few get dumped at the local pound because people are tired of them as a pet,

Domestic ducks are , instead, often put into parks/creeks etc ,after the cute fluffy ducklings grow up .These then often hybridise with our native ducks - causing all sorts of problems.... do you know of dingoes, and the problems done to their gene pool by the domestic dog? Same sort of thing with wild ducks

The Pacific Black Duck is seldom seen in its pure form now in NZ - due to hybridisation with Mallards !!! Australian ducks are in a similar danger.

Around many towns/cities are many many prettily coloured ducks ... cross breeds... diluting the gene pools, and quietly killing off our native species.

Fluffy ducklings and chickens should not be sold in petshops,or school fetes, either

Edited December 3, 2010 by persephone

[BigPaws]

Yes Souff, I do believe you are both from the same planet

Gee you seem to be trying to put words in my mouth.........I never said domesticated ducks are native! It's nice that you think that nobody takes ducklings from the wild though, same as nobody takes native birds from their nests

[BigPaws]

Yes Souff, wings clipped/hair cut

I'm struggling to understand though, if their wings are clipped that makes them unable to do what they were born to do.

Oh so you're saying that if I cut my hair that makes me unable to walk??????

[Dju]

Yes Souff, wings clipped/hair cut

I'm struggling to understand though, if their wings are clipped that makes them unable to do what they were born to do.

Oh so you're saying that if I cut my hair that makes me unable to walk??????

And being killed by dogs/cats when/if they fly over the fence and out of the yard also kind of makes them unable to do what they were born to do (to live, I suppose?). Guess one would have to pick the lesser of two 'evils' when keeping ducks.

[BigPaws]

Dju, if birds weren't kept as prisoners then they would never need wing clipping so would never be in that position.

I am a very strong believer in animal rights. I'm quite disappointed when I look on this forum

[Moselle]

Many things as previously mentioned

Big ones for me are

Treats that are Australian made and prouduct of Australia, no imported crap and no died crap.

Good quality toysGoode quality shampoos, brushes, grooming gear, crates etc.

Rescue organisations /shelters info displayed and no live animals

Good quality dry food

Agree with all of the above esp treats and toys made in Australia as most toys that are made in asian countries are downright dangerous, treats like rawhide contains arsenic so I would never sell rawhide if I owned a pet shop.

Oh, and a trollies so that one can place heavy bags of dog food in a trolley before walking up to the front desk instead of pet shop owners magically expecting that everyone has superhuman strength.

[Souff]

Yes Souff, wings clipped/hair cut

I'm struggling to understand though, if their wings are clipped that makes them unable to do what they were born to do.

Oh so you're saying that if I cut my hair that makes me unable to walk??????

Better ask your hairdresser that question

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Ducklings or any other baby animals should not be given to children to look after as an experiment.

I'm not Australian but have been here for 25 years now. I was horrified when my friends told me that during their school years, one of the school projects commonly undertaken was to look after a chick or duckling.

Did my friends (who I know to be lovely people) raise these dependent little creatures to adulthood? No, most of them died, and probably not in a painless or quick way.

Noone was apparently too concerned when this happened and I daresay the parents were probably relieved.

I believe it is completely inappropriate to get school children to do this sort of thing, leaving a helpless little bird in the care of some kids is highly risky. It is especially inappropriate from the animal's point of view.

In the UK we had animals at school but all contact with them was monitored by a teacher and they were fed/watered etc by a responsible adult. Needless to say, it was never nice to get to school and hear of a breakin and the torture/killing of these little innocents. It happened and was most likely teenage kids doing it.

[Souff]

And being killed by dogs/cats when/if they fly over the fence and out of the yard also kind of makes them unable to do what they were born to do (to live, I suppose?). Guess one would have to pick the lesser of two 'evils' when keeping ducks.

The domesticated ducks that I know are too well fed to fly anywhere :D but if we have any pets we have a duty to keep them safe from harm.

But some people will never understand that ..... until they have to pick up the remains of their pet.

[raz]

I am a very strong believer in animal rights. I'm quite disappointed when I look on this forum

Animals dont have rights.

I'd like to see quality pet food, medication, grooming products, bedding, coats, toys ...I'll think up a few more.

[Souff]

Ducklings or any other baby animals should not be given to children to look after as an experiment.

I'm not Australian but have been here for 25 years now. I was horrified when my friends told me that during their school years, one of the school projects commonly undertaken was to look after a chick or duckling.

Did my friends (who I know to be lovely people) raise these dependent little creatures to adulthood? No, most of them died, and probably not in a painless or quick way.

Noone was apparently too concerned when this happened and I daresay the parents were probably relieved.

I believe it is completely inappropriate to get school children to do this sort of thing, leaving a helpless little bird in the care of some kids is highly risky. It is especially inappropriate from the animal's point of view.

In the UK we had animals at school but all contact with them was monitored by a teacher and they were fed/watered etc by a responsible adult. Needless to say, it was never nice to get to school and hear of a breakin and the torture/killing of these little innocents. It happened and was most likely teenage kids doing it.

I have no problem with children learning about different animals - under proper supervision of teachers and parents.

There are many children would never have known the love of animals if it were not for the joint home/school projects.

I have no doubt there are casualties, but there have been many successes too.

Souff

[Souff]

Oh, and a trollies so that one can place heavy bags of dog food in a trolley before walking up to the front desk instead of pet shop owners magically expecting that everyone has superhuman strength.

Yes, trolleys please.

And a home delivery service, for a fee.

Pet owners sometimes trip over the cat or the dog and break a leg or an arm, but still have to get the food home to feed the animal!

Charge a reasonable fee and have set areas for delivery.

SOuff

[Moselle]

Ducklings or any other baby animals should not be given to children to look after as an experiment.

I'm not Australian but have been here for 25 years now. I was horrified when my friends told me that during their school years, one of the school projects commonly undertaken was to look after a chick or duckling.

Did my friends (who I know to be lovely people) raise these dependent little creatures to adulthood? No, most of them died, and probably not in a painless or quick way.

Noone was apparently too concerned when this happened and I daresay the parents were probably relieved.

I believe it is completely inappropriate to get school children to do this sort of thing, leaving a helpless little bird in the care of some kids is highly risky. It is especially inappropriate from the animal's point of view.

In the UK we had animals at school but all contact with them was monitored by a teacher and they were fed/watered etc by a responsible adult. Needless to say, it was never nice to get to school and hear of a breakin and the torture/killing of these little innocents. It happened and was most likely teenage kids doing it.

I agree 100% in all that you have said . I have seen this with my neighbours and it really frustrated me. Young kids playing with small birds, dropping animals, expee cted to look after birds which, of course, they did NOT, constantly subjecting animals to stress, etc etc. Some parents can be so nonchalant and don't seem to care how their kids go about treating animals, most upsetting.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Moselle

[Souff]

Ducklings or any other baby animals should not be given to children to look after as an experiment.

I'm not Australian but have been here for 25 years now. I was horrified when my friends told me that during their school years, one of the school projects commonly undertaken was to look after a chick or duckling.

Did my friends (who I know to be lovely people) raise these dependent little creatures to adulthood? No, most of them died, and probably not in a painless or quick way.

Noone was apparently too concerned when this happened and I daresay the parents were probably relieved.

I believe it is completely inappropriate to get school children to do this sort of thing, leaving a helpless little bird in the care of some kids is highly risky. It is especially inappropriate from the animal's point of view.

In the UK we had animals at school but all contact with them was monitored by a teacher and they were fed/watered etc by a responsible adult. Needless to say, it was never nice to get to school and hear of a breakin and the torture/killing of these little innocents. It happened and was most likely teenage kids doing it.

I agree 100% in all that you have said . I have seen this with my neighbours and it really frustrated me. Young kids playing with small birds, dropping animals, expee cted to look after birds which, of course, they did NOT, constantly subjecting animals to stress, etc etc. Some parents can be so nonchalant and don't seem to care how their kids go about treating animals, most upsetting.

When these projects are entered into there has to be responsibility from 3 parties: the child, the parent, and the teacher.

We have kindergartens through to high schools that have been involved in joint animal care for years, very successfully, particularly at holiday times when the classroom creatures have to go to the childrens homes. They get returned to the classroom at the beginning of term .... in good health.

If a teacher knows what they are doing with animals and children, then it will be OK. There will always be parents who let the side down, but I believe that these people are in the minority with most creatures ..... with the exception of the tadpoles. Ah yes, the smelly slimy bowls of taddies were sometimes a sight (and smell) to behold.

Slack parents and slack teachers should never be involved in any animal projects.

But give the good teachers and the good parents the credit where it is due though please!

They DO teach the kids responsibility about animal care and many children have benefited from the experience of having the responsibiity of caring for the animals.