Do You Use Jealousy To Your Advantage?

[raineth]

My Digby is a very sweet and placid soul ;) but he does have a tenderncy to get jealous.

For instance he really doesn't care for having his nails clipped. But If I clip my other dog's nails infront of him, and give her lots of praise doing it, he is actually then pleased to have his nails done. Normally he would be miserable about it

I can also get lots more enthusiasm from him if I train him second after he has watched me train the other dog. I am currently doing TOT with both of them and the only way I can get him into drive is if he goes second

he also has not much interest in toys but if I play with my other dog with a toy I can then get enough enthusiasm from him to make him want to play. Its funny because I can still see that he's not enjoying it that much - its just that he doesn't want to miss out ;)

He will even eat fruit (which he normally hates) if I offer it to the other dog. If she's not around he doesn't even bother to take it if I offer it to him.

Anyway I was just wondering if other people use jealousy to their advantage when training?

[tlc]

Its funny you should mention this. My youngest is hilarous if he thinks he is missing out on something.

Just the other day we were having our annual xmas photo shoot so I could make my xmas cards and My boy is very impatient so I usually make him wait for things and he mostly goes last being the youngest.

So I did the shots of the other 3 making him wait till last then he was so eager to get in the chair and pose, but he realized once he got there he didn't know what the heck he was supposed to do, it made for some funny photos! But he soon eased into it.

I find I use it to my advantage especially with grooming, if one is getting it you can be sure the other 3 will want some of the action.

[W Sibs]

Emmy doesn't like to be left out of things either so she is always going to copy Charlie on what he is doing if he gets attention (the good and bad). I wouldn't say it's a jealously thing though.

But, I do take advantage of it if I want her to try new things... like kayaking, I put Charlie in the kayak and paddled away with him and Emmy didn't know what was going on.. when I came back, she jumped straight into the kayak and wants a go.

Bad is.. Emmy usually likes having her nail clipped, but if I cut Charlie's nails first and he throws a tantrum, she will throw one too. So, I have to cut hers before cutting his.

Edited December 2, 2010 by CW EW

[corvus]

I was writing about this just recently and got curious and tried to find some papers that described the effect of social competition on motivation. There wasn't much dog stuff and the one paper I found I couldn't access because it was from the 60s. But in other animals it would appear that social competition increases motivation but may decrease performance. But then, that makes sense seeing as increased motivation tends to increase the speed of performance, but decreases problem solving ability and accuracy. Although I think that's largely an arousal effect... With that in mind, I wonder if it's something that can be used judiciously in training specifically for increasing speed and arousal. It came up in my training because I asked one dog for a paw target and the other dog who was supposed to be waiting politely for his chance to train slapped his paw into my hand before the dog the cue was for could make a move. Some people use competition to increase things like recall speed by only rewarding the first one that gets there. I wouldn't do that in our family, though, because Erik is pretty much always going to beat poor Kivi and Kivi's the one that needs all the encouragement.

I realise I pretty much killed the fun in the topic with that anal, science nerd account. So to make up for it, one time my previous dog was oggling the apple I was eating. I knew she didn't like apple that much and pointed this out to her, but she was adamant she wanted some. So I gave her a piece and she spat it out, as predicted. I threatened to give it to the hare and she pounced on it and devoured it like there was no tomorrow. I do train my low drive dog second because by the time I get to him he's all excited by the training after watching me do it with the other dog, and I do sometimes bring Erik out when Kivi's being finnicky about food. He usually eats it if Erik is around eyeing it off.

[TerraNik]

Yep, all the time...

I used to have to use another dog to get drive out of Jedi when he had issues with his allergies.

Edited December 2, 2010 by TerraNik

[The Spotted Devil]

The best training aid I ever bought was another puppy I had so many comments at agility training with Zig in the first week after Miss Emily arrived. I am yet to train purposefully to up his motivation but will certainly try it.

[wuffles]

I was writing about this just recently and got curious and tried to find some papers that described the effect of social competition on motivation. There wasn't much dog stuff and the one paper I found I couldn't access because it was from the 60s. But in other animals it would appear that social competition increases motivation but may decrease performance. But then, that makes sense seeing as increased motivation tends to increase the speed of performance, but decreases problem solving ability and accuracy. Although I think that's largely an arousal effect... With that in mind, I wonder if it's something that can be used judiciously in training specifically for increasing speed and arousal. It came up in my training because I asked one dog for a paw target and the other dog who was supposed to be waiting politely for his chance to train slapped his paw into my hand before the dog the cue was for could make a move. Some people use competition to increase things like recall speed by only rewarding the first one that gets there. I wouldn't do that in our family, though, because Erik is pretty much always going to beat poor Kivi and Kivi's the one that needs all the encouragement.

From what I have observed with my two, this seems pretty correct... both of mine hate to think they might be missing out on something and they are really motivated when they are both in the same room. But I wouldn't say they give their best performance, they tend to do the behaviour really quickly then go check on the other dog, then offer a few more random behaviours, then go check on the other dog, etc...

[Bubitty]

Oh how I wish Bubby would subscribe to this theory. But he doesn't!

[W Sibs]

Oh how I wish Bubby would subscribe to this theory. But he doesn't!

bubby

[raineth]

love the photos tlc

Corvus, it certainly didn't kill the fun for me; I found that very interesting

I can really see how it would increase speed but decreas accuracy. But in Digby's case it doesn't do this. I don't know whether its because of him, or the way I do it.

In a training session, the one not being trained has to wait on the bed. So Digby will wait on the bed while I train Delta and then when its his turn, del;ta is the one on the bed , so they are not kind there competing at the same time.

Or it could just be that Digby is so super laid back that he couldn't sp[ped up to the point where accuracy is lost

I think the funniest thing is that when Digby takes a piece of banana he actually looks like he finds it so disgusting that he sometimes actually dry retches eating it ;) yet he still wants to eat it because the only thing worse than eating a banana, is missing out on eating a banana

[raineth]

Oh how I wish Bubby would subscribe to this theory. But he doesn't!

[corvus]

I think the funniest thing is that when Digby takes a piece of banana he actually looks like he finds it so disgusting that he sometimes actually dry retches eating it yet he still wants to eat it because the only thing worse than eating a banana, is missing out on eating a banana

Dogs are hilarious. ;) Every now and then Erik decides he's not coming into the backyard with us and is going to stay out the front and explore. We shrug and walk through the gate and shut it behind us.... and count to 5, because that's the longest it takes for him to cave and start banging on the gate to be let in. He just cannot stand not knowing what we're all doing! It could be something awesome!

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I use it if pilling a dog with a piller or by hand is likely to cause resentment or stress and the dog is starting to cotton on to their treats being doctored.

So, get dog to be pilled and other random dog, sit them both, start feeding treats and the dog who needs the pill will take the food with the pill more enthusiastically and less "skeptically" with another dog sitting by them also eating treats. Not something I'd do with a dog on medication for the rest of its life, but it works well with teething puppies on antibiotics and that kind of thing.

[Tay.]

I wish my girl would get jealous when I'm giving my boy a bath, but no, she goes and hides ;)

If I'm training Bailey with food, Jess couldn't care less. As soon as I get out a toy for him, she starts screaming.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I wish my girl would get jealous when I'm giving my boy a bath, but no, she goes and hides

I have one that gets jealous about baths. It's crazy, never seen anything like it - most, like you say, run and pretend they don't exist. She also hops up on the grooming table when my OH gets it out to do the Afghans. Clearly she doesn't mind the baths and grooming and likes the attention. Funny dog.