Dog Fight

[55chevy]

siks3, sorry to hear this story, I've heard many similar ones. There are often signs that there will be trouble and we can't afford to ignore them especially when there is such an enormous size disparity. Once the big dog decides to have a go, the small one will never win and usually not survive.

I do agree that you should rehome one of them certainly and never have them together again because the foxy won't have forgotten. I rescue and rehome foxies in particular and know them well!

I don't agree with you saying that asking two males to get along together because they haven't grown up together is a "big ask". I've had well over 100 foster dogs in the last few years, mostly males - partly because there are more males than females and party because I prefer them. I currently have 5 males - none of them grew up together and they all get along very well. Three are mine, two are fosters.

Of course sometimes you do bring home a dog with an issue but that has been as rare as twice for me. I try and check their temperaments very thoroughly whilst at the pound.

I also recommend extreme care with two dogs of different sizes - people run into trouble for all sorts of reasons, they expect dogs to eat together and the dog they bring home is food aggressive. Toys, beds - they can all be issues for the territorial dog and it is nothing to do with size - some of the posters may like to blame small dogs but that is simply unfair.

Nice post, well explained Small dogs often think they can take on big dog and suffer the injury consequences making the fight more ugly. I think it's fair to say that if a small dog taking the fight to a large dog if it could envisage the consequence would think a bit more carefully before picking a fight

[WoofnHoof]

Nice post, well explained Small dogs often think they can take on big dog and suffer the injury consequences making the fight more ugly. I think it's fair to say that if a small dog taking the fight to a large dog if it could envisage the consequence would think a bit more carefully before picking a fight

Dogs do not think the way we do, much of their world is lived in the moment they don't weigh things up and have no real concept of the danger they are in when they take on a bigger dog, they aren't able to connect the thought big dog = I wont win this fight, the way we would.

So sorry for the OP, when my big dog was young I allowed my little dog to bully him which was unfair and just plain wrong but I thought it would teach the big dog to respect the authority of the little one, it didn't it just resulted in a nasty fight when the big dog reached maturity and now they have to be seperated when I am not right there to watch their interactions.

[KKDD]

How refreshing to read a thread exploring dog aggression without anyone getting judgemental or fearful about dogs behaviour. Aggression is a natural part of the dogs repetoire of behaviours, and sometimes its ugly. Also little dogs can be dreadful bullies, and grumpy old dogs sometimes sometimes seem to have a death wish in a pack situation. Desnt make any dogs 'bad' though, and we as their pack leaders, need to try to understand them and keep things safe.

I feel so sad when i see people 'get rid of' (including pts) a dog that has beaten up another dog, regardless of the circumstances. SO glad the OP considered all things with a clear head.

I also had my little dog chewed up by a long suffering larger breed, but after that (and a large vet bill) they were all able to live peacefully together, albeit I never again allowed the little dog such freedom to be a bully again (and she was more respectful anyway after that).

[Tapferhund]

I'm very sorry for you, I hope your dog survives.

Dogs do sometimes squabble, however if one of them is getting this seriously hurt, it's more than a squabble. If your foxie survives (or even if he doesn't) I'd suggest you consider getting a behaviourist in to help find out what's going on with your Akita. Your partner might also be happier with you keeping the Akita if they can see you're doing something to make the Akita less likely to hurt another dog again.

Siks3,

I'm sorry about your fathers little Foxie and you are right about two male dogs..especially if they have not grown together...........but as soon as I saw Akita.....it didn't surprize me. Now before everyone pounces on me.......I have known dozens of Akita's in the past through friends having them as well as being at Akita shows when the breed was very popular.......and I have not met ONE I would trust. They are a big powerful breed with very few having good temperament with other dogs and sometimes with people.

I think it is very sad you have to give the Foxie away....especially as he is an old dog and has had the trauma of loosing his owner (your father).......and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Sad situation all round. :rolleyes:

[Tapferhund]

How refreshing to read a thread exploring dog aggression without anyone getting judgemental or fearful about dogs behaviour. Aggression is a natural part of the dogs repetoire of behaviours, and sometimes its ugly. Also little dogs can be dreadful bullies, and grumpy old dogs sometimes sometimes seem to have a death wish in a pack situation. Desnt make any dogs 'bad' though, and we as their pack leaders, need to try to understand them and keep things safe.

I feel so sad when i see people 'get rid of' (including pts) a dog that has beaten up another dog, regardless of the circumstances. SO glad the OP considered all things with a clear head.

I agree KKDD, but the "breed" of dogs, their traits and their history in what they were bred for also needs to be taken in to account. People buy certain breeds because they like 'the look' of the breed and very few learn everything about the breed, what it was bred for, what its traits are or its capabilities in certain situations. That's why, not that many years ago, dozens of Akita's ended up dumped in pounds. They are a powerful breed not known for their good disposition with other dogs and in some cases people.

[Aidan3]

....and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Probably sadder for siks3 than the dog, they seem to handle the change without getting too sentimental about it.

[ravenau1]

What a scary situation for you to be in, and a difficult one. I'm glad the foxie will be ok!

[Tapferhund]

....and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Probably sadder for siks3 than the dog, they seem to handle the change without getting too sentimental about it.

Dogs DO go through grief Aidan...something you are obviously unaware of. Some dogs do take being re homed in their stride...while others suffer ! This dog is also OLD which wouldn't help. :rolleyes:

[Aidan3]

Dogs DO go through grief Aidan...something you are obviously unaware of. Some dogs do take being re homed in their stride...while others suffer ! This dog is also OLD which wouldn't help. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you mean well, Tapferhund, but you aren't helping the OP or her dogs and there is much more to this than how the Foxie will feel about being rehomed. As someone who has devoted most of his adult life to understanding animal emotion and behaviour, and currently completing a degree focused on it, I would think ignorance on my part would not be the obvious conclusion.

[55chevy]

Nice post, well explained Small dogs often think they can take on big dog and suffer the injury consequences making the fight more ugly. I think it's fair to say that if a small dog taking the fight to a large dog if it could envisage the consequence would think a bit more carefully before picking a fight

Dogs do not think the way we do, much of their world is lived in the moment they don't weigh things up and have no real concept of the danger they are in when they take on a bigger dog, they aren't able to connect the thought big dog = I wont win this fight, the way we would.

So sorry for the OP, when my big dog was young I allowed my little dog to bully him which was unfair and just plain wrong but I thought it would teach the big dog to respect the authority of the little one, it didn't it just resulted in a nasty fight when the big dog reached maturity and now they have to be seperated when I am not right there to watch their interactions.

They don't weigh things up as human would that's correct. When I handled service dogs a few years ago now, I had a few encounters with small aggressive dog rushing at my GSD, my dog was getting angry, the little dog's off leash and keeps coming and is a quite scary situation to control, not a good look for a patrol dog killing someone's little rascal

[koalathebear]

I'm sure you mean well, Tapferhund, but you aren't helping the OP or her dogs and there is much more to this than how the Foxie will feel about being rehomed. As someone who has devoted most of his adult life to understanding animal emotion and behaviour, and currently completing a degree focused on it, I would think ignorance on my part would not be the obvious conclusion.

Alas, the OP will probably feel worse given that Tapferhund has said that he/she has never met an Akita that he/she would trust and that the re-homed Foxie is likely to be sad and suffer

A very sad situation all 'round and the worst nightmare for any of us who have more than one dog in a house. siks3: my thoughts are with you and your doggies. Please take care of yourself.

Edited November 28, 2010 by koalathebear

[asal]

..and I am thinking that the two dogs may never be able to be run together like before

Horrible situation. A lot of us have been there.

take that as a given from what ive seen in the past.

[55chevy]

I'm very sorry for you, I hope your dog survives.

Dogs do sometimes squabble, however if one of them is getting this seriously hurt, it's more than a squabble. If your foxie survives (or even if he doesn't) I'd suggest you consider getting a behaviourist in to help find out what's going on with your Akita. Your partner might also be happier with you keeping the Akita if they can see you're doing something to make the Akita less likely to hurt another dog again.

Siks3,

I'm sorry about your fathers little Foxie and you are right about two male dogs..especially if they have not grown together...........but as soon as I saw Akita.....it didn't surprize me. Now before everyone pounces on me.......I have known dozens of Akita's in the past through friends having them as well as being at Akita shows when the breed was very popular.......and I have not met ONE I would trust. They are a big powerful breed with very few having good temperament with other dogs and sometimes with people.

I think it is very sad you have to give the Foxie away....especially as he is an old dog and has had the trauma of loosing his owner (your father).......and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Sad situation all round.

I disagree with your male dog perspective Tapferhund, the males growing up together from pups are more likely to fight in my experience than an older/younger combination. Akitas are not a whole lot different to working line GSD's, Rottys, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds and some Bull breeds that have genetic fighting drive, more than likely you are comparing more classical Akita's with watered down pet versions of the breeds I mentioned. Any breed with genetic fighting drive if pushed too hard with bullying or being shoved around unfairly will defend themselves and make a good job of it, lets not put Akita's in the traditional Pit Bull charade with more unsubstantiated comments of negativity based on breed.

[Tapferhund]

I'm sure you mean well, Tapferhund, but you aren't helping the OP or her dogs and there is much more to this than how the Foxie will feel about being rehomed. As someone who has devoted most of his adult life to understanding animal emotion and behaviour, and currently completing a degree focused on it, I would think ignorance on my part would not be the obvious conclusion.

Alas, the OP will probably feel worse given that Tapferhund has said that he/she has never met an Akita that he/she would trust and that the re-homed Foxie is likely to be sad and suffer

A very sad situation all 'round and the worst nightmare for any of us who have more than one dog in a house. siks3: my thoughts are with you and your doggies. Please take care of yourself.

Ohh paleeez

Yes you both are right, I do CARE far more for the dogs than I do for the OP feelings or IMO lack of !!!

[fifi]

Yes you both are right, I do CARE far more for the dogs than I do for the OP feelings or IMO lack of !!!

That is cruel and harsh, I think the OP has made a very difficult decision based on both dogs staying safe as well as that of their own family.

fifi

[Aidan3]

Ohh paleeez

Yes you both are right, I do CARE far more for the dogs than I do for the OP feelings or IMO lack of !!!

OK, then I would like to give you the opportunity to explain how your comments have contributed to helping the Fox Terrier in some way?

[Tapferhund]

I'm very sorry for you, I hope your dog survives.

Dogs do sometimes squabble, however if one of them is getting this seriously hurt, it's more than a squabble. If your foxie survives (or even if he doesn't) I'd suggest you consider getting a behaviourist in to help find out what's going on with your Akita. Your partner might also be happier with you keeping the Akita if they can see you're doing something to make the Akita less likely to hurt another dog again.

Siks3,

I'm sorry about your fathers little Foxie and you are right about two male dogs..especially if they have not grown together...........but as soon as I saw Akita.....it didn't surprize me. Now before everyone pounces on me.......I have known dozens of Akita's in the past through friends having them as well as being at Akita shows when the breed was very popular.......and I have not met ONE I would trust. They are a big powerful breed with very few having good temperament with other dogs and sometimes with people.

I think it is very sad you have to give the Foxie away....especially as he is an old dog and has had the trauma of loosing his owner (your father).......and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Sad situation all round.

I disagree with your male dog perspective Tapferhund, the males growing up together from pups are more likely to fight in my experience than an older/younger combination. Akitas are not a whole lot different to working line GSD's, Rottys, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds and some Bull breeds that have genetic fighting drive, more than likely you are comparing more classical Akita's with watered down pet versions of the breeds I mentioned. Any breed with genetic fighting drive if pushed too hard with bullying or being shoved around unfairly will defend themselves and make a good job of it, lets not put Akita's in the traditional Pit Bull charade with more unsubstantiated comments of negativity based on breed.

Well I disagree with your perspective 55C ! In my experience same litter males growing up together , same litter females growing up together are less likely to fight than bringing two older male or female dogs together and expect them to live happily together.......although I have this situation too.....with no problem.

I have had up to five entire males run together...even when I have had bitches in season ...and all with no problem. It comes down to leadership by the owner imo. The only time I would separate was when no one was at home. Other than that they all lived happily together.

The OP had an old small dog and a younger (I'm assuming) larger dog. So do you honestly believe an old dog would be annoying (bullying) the younger dog? Truth be known the poor old foxie didn't want to be bothered with the Akita continually annoying it .

As for your comments that Akitas are not a whole lot different to the working breeds you have mentioned......along with these breeds having genetic 'fighting drive'.......

.........what a load of codswallop !!!!!!!!!!! Akita's were bred to hunt bear as well as other large wild animals....whereas each and everyone of those working breeds were bred to herd!

Quote from an Akita website. Perhaps if the OP had done some research on his chosen breed the poor foxie might have been spared from being mauled.

The Akita Inu have a reputation for sometimes being aggressive towards smaller animals or other dogs, particularly those of the same sex.

[koalathebear]

Ohh paleeez

Yes you both are right, I do CARE far more for the dogs than I do for the OP feelings or IMO lack of !!!

What an incredibly harsh and insensitive thing to say. First of all, having an incident break out between two dogs could happen to anyone, even the most experienced of dog owners. Unless you keep both dogs separated at all times, you never know what completely random thing could happen to affect one of the dog's behaviour - unexpected illness, new stimulae, toxins ... dogs are living creatures and cannot be 100% predictable.

Second, from what I can see, the OP is doing the best possible given an incredibly difficult situation. I know some would say PTS the Akita but that sounds profoundly unfair and extreme given the circumstances. I'm no expert but I'm guessing that it's going to be far easier to find a good new home for a Fox Terrier than it would be for a male Akita given the fact that there is undeniable bias against and fear surrounding large breeds in the community. Your comments above would appear to be clear manifestations of such viewpoints.

In any case, it's really unfortunate that this thread has to devolve like this. Can't we just sympathise with the poor OP and give helpful suggestions instead of making OP feel worse? Tapferhund if you really feel so strongly about the temperament of Akitas, scenarios like this and believe that people take it upon themselves when they select breeds like Akitas - couldn't it be more appropriately discussed in a new thread? I'm sure many would like to engage and discuss over there, particularly if you believe that there is a genuine basis for avoiding the breed.

Edited November 28, 2010 by koalathebear

[twodoggies2001]

I'm very sorry for you, I hope your dog survives.

Dogs do sometimes squabble, however if one of them is getting this seriously hurt, it's more than a squabble. If your foxie survives (or even if he doesn't) I'd suggest you consider getting a behaviourist in to help find out what's going on with your Akita. Your partner might also be happier with you keeping the Akita if they can see you're doing something to make the Akita less likely to hurt another dog again.

Siks3,

I'm sorry about your fathers little Foxie and you are right about two male dogs..especially if they have not grown together...........but as soon as I saw Akita.....it didn't surprize me. Now before everyone pounces on me.......I have known dozens of Akita's in the past through friends having them as well as being at Akita shows when the breed was very popular.......and I have not met ONE I would trust. They are a big powerful breed with very few having good temperament with other dogs and sometimes with people.

I think it is very sad you have to give the Foxie away....especially as he is an old dog and has had the trauma of loosing his owner (your father).......and now he is about to lose you too in being re housed with someone else.

Sad situation all round.

I disagree with your male dog perspective Tapferhund, the males growing up together from pups are more likely to fight in my experience than an older/younger combination. Akitas are not a whole lot different to working line GSD's, Rottys, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds and some Bull breeds that have genetic fighting drive, more than likely you are comparing more classical Akita's with watered down pet versions of the breeds I mentioned. Any breed with genetic fighting drive if pushed too hard with bullying or being shoved around unfairly will defend themselves and make a good job of it, lets not put Akita's in the traditional Pit Bull charade with more unsubstantiated comments of negativity based on breed.

Well I disagree with your perspective 55C ! In my experience same litter males growing up together , same litter females growing up together are less likely to fight than bringing two older male or female dogs together and expect them to live happily together.......although I have this situation too.....with no problem.

I have had up to five entire males run together...even when I have had bitches in season ...and all with no problem. It comes down to leadership by the owner imo. The only time I would separate was when no one was at home. Other than that they all lived happily together.

The OP had an old small dog and a younger (I'm assuming) larger dog. So do you honestly believe an old dog would be annoying (bullying) the younger dog? Truth be known the poor old foxie didn't want to be bothered with the Akita continually annoying it .

As for your comments that Akitas are not a whole lot different to the working breeds you have mentioned......along with these breeds having genetic 'fighting drive'.......

.........what a load of codswallop !!!!!!!!!!! Akita's were bred to hunt bear as well as other large wild animals....whereas each and everyone of those working breeds were bred to herd!

Quote from an Akita website. Perhaps if the OP had done some research on his chosen breed the poor foxie might have been spared from being mauled.

The Akita Inu have a reputation for sometimes being aggressive towards smaller animals or other dogs, particularly those of the same sex.

Read post No. 9 The OP states that the foxie started it.

[fifi]

Tapferhund, How do you know the OP didn't fully research their breed ? they seem to have had a very happy family pet that suited them until this little dog came along.

You are making some very harsh judgements and assumptions here.

fifi