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[Steve]

So do you mind me asking why no one is interested in using the Dog owners Choice Awards to give you guys a bit of a pat on the back and a plug so more people get to see what you are doing - maybe generate a bit of interest for some sponsorship etc? www.mdbaawards.net.au

You told me about this several months ago. To be honest, I didn't know what to make of it and still don't. I wasn't really sure what kind of people you were wanting to give recognition to and what it would mean to get it. I guess I'm not convinced it would be a good thing to be singled out in this context.

Ill bite why wouldnt it be a good thing for someone to be given a pat on the back for something they have done which contributed to doing good things for our dogs?

[deerhound owner]

So do you mind me asking why no one is interested in using the Dog owners Choice Awards to give you guys a bit of a pat on the back and a plug so more people get to see what you are doing - maybe generate a bit of interest for some sponsorship etc? www.mdbaawards.net.au

You told me about this several months ago. To be honest, I didn't know what to make of it and still don't. I wasn't really sure what kind of people you were wanting to give recognition to and what it would mean to get it. I guess I'm not convinced it would be a good thing to be singled out in this context.

Ill bite why wouldnt it be a good thing for someone to be given a pat on the back for something they have done which contributed to doing good things for our dogs?

I'm not sure either

[Greytmate]

I have no idea of whether this is what Corvus means, but a couple of people have expressed concerns to me about this too.

Winning an award with a title like might be seen as doing a good thing for Master Breeders, but not necessarily for dogs.

The name MDBA doesn't really indicate a focus on the dogs, but on the people that breed them.

There is still a chasm between what the MDBA does and can do for the benefit of dogs, and what the name alone might suggest that its priorities are.

[corvus]

In my view there are politics involved that I don't necessarily want to wade into. I don't want to open myself up to more battering by discussing it publicly, either. Suffice to say for myself, I would feel like being singled out would be a mixed blessing at best.

I'm sorry I didn't nominate deerhound owner, though. I think she has done some very valuable work.

[Steve]

I have no idea of whether this is what Corvus means, but a couple of people have expressed concerns to me about this too.

Winning an award with a title like might be seen as doing a good thing for Master Breeders, but not necessarily for dogs.

The name MDBA doesn't really indicate a focus on the dogs, but on the people that breed them.

There is still a chasm between what the MDBA does and can do for the benefit of dogs, and what the name alone might suggest that its priorities are.

Well greytmate Im stunned - there is not one person I have accepted a nomination for who hasnt done something wonderful for dogs.The stories I hear about what people do which most dont ever hear and without the awards would never have their stories told is mind blowing.

When I think of the people who have been nominated and those who have won over the past 4 years AND look at the criteria for even nominating them for you or anyone to get to that is astounding.

Actually Im sure Dr Alan Wilton who won the first year in science category who has done such remarkable work with genetics for dogs would laugh at the idea that he was seen to be doing anything for us rather than the dogs! Take another look at the people who have dedicated their lives to doing what they do and who cry and sob at me when I read their nominations because they are so overcome because they have been appreciated enough for someone to nominate them.

One of the things we have attempted to do is put a focus on the good things people do for dogs in the hope that it will encourage those peopel to keep doing what they are being recognised for and encourage others to do more for their dogs.

the science category was introduced this year in order to try to help put a focus on the stuff these students and scientists do which we rarely hear about - stupidly we thought people would appreciate that we were trying to help them in their quest for funding and lifting their profile to the general public and dog lovers.

So you dont like the name - better get over it because its staying but to accuse us of saying we dont do anything to benefit dogs ??? Give me a break.

corvus - the nominations are still open and if Deerlover has done some science which deserves her being made to feel that she has been noticed for what she did to help dogs then its very sad that the science fraternity is so miserable to begrudge that and that politics cant be kept out of it.

[Greytmate]

Well greytmate Im stunned - there is not one person I have accepted a nomination for who hasnt done something wonderful for dogs.The stories I hear about what people do which most dont ever hear and without the awards would never have their stories told is mind blowing.

When I think of the people who have been nominated and those who have won over the past 4 years AND look at the criteria for even nominating them for you or anyone to get to that is astounding.

I would not argue with any of that Steve.

stupidly we thought people would appreciate that we were trying to help them in their quest for funding and lifting their profile to the general public and dog lovers.

I don't think it is stupid at all.

So you dont like the name - better get over it because its staying but to accuse us of saying we dont do anything to benefit dogs ??? Give me a break.

I actually said that the MDBA does and can do a lot for dogs. I fully support the MDBA's ideals.

I was talking about what the name might suggest, and how some people I know have reacted to it.

I know you will not change the name, and it would be easier for me if I just shut up and left you alone about it. But you asked "Why wouldnt it be a good thing for someone to be given a pat on the back for something they have done which contributed to doing good things for our dogs?"

The answer is not because there is anything wrong with the MDBA or the idea of acknowledging excellence. I think the MDBA is excellent in what it is trying to do, and especially you Steve.

My post was about how winning such an award might be perceived. Which is where politics sometimes can come into it for various reasons. Personally I was honoured to receive a nomination, and have nominated others too.

[Steve]

Well greytmate Im stunned - there is not one person I have accepted a nomination for who hasnt done something wonderful for dogs.The stories I hear about what people do which most dont ever hear and without the awards would never have their stories told is mind blowing.

When I think of the people who have been nominated and those who have won over the past 4 years AND look at the criteria for even nominating them for you or anyone to get to that is astounding.

I would not argue with any of that Steve.

stupidly we thought people would appreciate that we were trying to help them in their quest for funding and lifting their profile to the general public and dog lovers.

I don't think it is stupid at all.

So you dont like the name - better get over it because its staying but to accuse us of saying we dont do anything to benefit dogs ??? Give me a break.

I actually said that the MDBA does and can do a lot for dogs. I fully support the MDBA's ideals.

I was talking about what the name might suggest, and how some people I know have reacted to it.

I know you will not change the name, and it would be easier for me if I just shut up and left you alone about it. But you asked "Why wouldnt it be a good thing for someone to be given a pat on the back for something they have done which contributed to doing good things for our dogs?"

The answer is not because there is anything wrong with the MDBA or the idea of acknowledging excellence. I think the MDBA is excellent in what it is trying to do, and especially you Steve.

My post was about how winning such an award might be perceived. Which is where politics sometimes can come into it for various reasons. Personally I was honoured to receive a nomination, and have nominated others too.

Alright I hear you now. Point is though for corvus's benefit we have no control over who nominates or who is nominated . You cant nominate yourself. Nor do we have any say in who wins.

If you were nominated it would be because someone saw something they wanted to make mention of to say thank you. In 4 years Ive had 2 who refused the nomination.One was a breeder who was awful and said she hated her puppy buyer and wouldnt have her name anywhere near theirs - the puppy buyer was shattered .The other was a rescue person who felt the politics would be a pain - the person who nominated her was also very disappointed and she missed out on all the free publicity for her rescue group that can go with being nominated. Even if a person doesnt want to accept the nomination for whatever reason the opportunity for putting focus on what the group does as a whole is wasted.

[Steve]

Sorry to do this here - but greytmate I cant send you a message and I need to contact you - could you please email me [email protected] when you get a chance

[deerhound owner]

In my view there are politics involved that I don't necessarily want to wade into. I don't want to open myself up to more battering by discussing it publicly, either. Suffice to say for myself, I would feel like being singled out would be a mixed blessing at best.

I'm sorry I didn't nominate deerhound owner, though. I think she has done some very valuable work.

aww shucks

I try to stay out of the politics as much as possible and accept that not everyone is going to have the same views as myself and we can all be friends anyway. Maybe i'm naive

I will pass the information about the MDBA awards to my neuroscience supervisor, he has a few students working on dog stuff.

Edited November 28, 2010 by deerhound owner

[Steve]

Thank you- but walk me through it. If I had some things which we would like to see looked at what is the protocol and how do we go about getting someone to talk to us? Money isnt an issue.

At what point is it O.K. to say well there has already been a study on that and leave it at that ? How do we know if there have been any studies done which are tucked away where only uni students can see them?

[Greytmate]

Here is one place to start a search.

Google Scholar

[deerhound owner]

Thank you- but walk me through it. If I had some things which we would like to see looked at what is the protocol and how do we go about getting someone to talk to us? Money isnt an issue.

At what point is it O.K. to say well there has already been a study on that and leave it at that ? How do we know if there have been any studies done which are tucked away where only uni students can see them?

The first point of call would be to go and talk to an expert in the field at the uniersities. They should be up on all the latest literature and if it's not their exact field they have access to literature databases they can search to find past research. It shouldn't be too hard to get in touch, you can usually find staff lists on university websites with lists of their research interests and their contact details. Just ring them up and say can I set up a meeting to discuss X Y or Z.

I know it goes against the grain but a meeting with Paul M might be helpful and even if he isn't able to help he might be able to put you on to others that are.

The point at which you say OK that is done and dusted changes for each senario so there's no hard and fast rule. If you have a well designed study with minimal flaws that addresses exactly your question you might be able to say fair enough move on, but if it was done in a different population or a different country or there were some major issues with the methodology the study may need repeating to be more relevant to your situation. It would be rare to read a study that didn't conclude with what future research needs to be done to take the next step in the knowledge so it's uncommon that things are just left at that becasue people think they have learnt all there is to know. That said they are often left at that because they run out of money or lose interst or the field moves on to the next buzz topic.

Hope that makes sense. I would be happy to have a search of the databases for you to check for past research if you are interested in particular topics. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

[Aidan3]

At what point is it O.K. to say well there has already been a study on that and leave it at that ? How do we know if there have been any studies done which are tucked away where only uni students can see them?

It seems we have quite a few students and academics here working in related fields, and most of us would be happy to review the literature (to whatever extent we are able, it is a never-ending rabbit hole). In the process some of the gaps and deficiencies in the literature begin to reveal themselves, particularly if it spurs a bit of discussion. If you put some of your ideas out there it might be interesting to see what comes back.

I'll defer to others for help with the rest of your questions, I'm just a lowly undergrad.

If you want to do a quick literature review yourself, Google Scholar is a really handy search engine and you'll usually get abstracts which are useful.

[Steve]

Thank you!

[Steve]

Thank you- but walk me through it. If I had some things which we would like to see looked at what is the protocol and how do we go about getting someone to talk to us? Money isnt an issue.

At what point is it O.K. to say well there has already been a study on that and leave it at that ? How do we know if there have been any studies done which are tucked away where only uni students can see them?

The first point of call would be to go and talk to an expert in the field at the uniersities. They should be up on all the latest literature and if it's not their exact field they have access to literature databases they can search to find past research. It shouldn't be too hard to get in touch, you can usually find staff lists on university websites with lists of their research interests and their contact details. Just ring them up and say can I set up a meeting to discuss X Y or Z.

I know it goes against the grain but a meeting with Paul M might be helpful and even if he isn't able to help he might be able to put you on to others that are.

The point at which you say OK that is done and dusted changes for each senario so there's no hard and fast rule. If you have a well designed study with minimal flaws that addresses exactly your question you might be able to say fair enough move on, but if it was done in a different population or a different country or there were some major issues with the methodology the study may need repeating to be more relevant to your situation. It would be rare to read a study that didn't conclude with what future research needs to be done to take the next step in the knowledge so it's uncommon that things are just left at that becasue people think they have learnt all there is to know. That said they are often left at that because they run out of money or lose interst or the field moves on to the next buzz topic.

Hope that makes sense. I would be happy to have a search of the databases for you to check for past research if you are interested in particular topics. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

It doesnt go against MY grain to have a chat with Paul but his area of expertise isnt what Im looking for. I actually left a message early last week to speak with Clare Wade - she did ring back but I was out of the office so Ill give it another go this week.

[Steve]

At what point is it O.K. to say well there has already been a study on that and leave it at that ? How do we know if there have been any studies done which are tucked away where only uni students can see them?

It seems we have quite a few students and academics here working in related fields, and most of us would be happy to review the literature (to whatever extent we are able, it is a never-ending rabbit hole). In the process some of the gaps and deficiencies in the literature begin to reveal themselves, particularly if it spurs a bit of discussion. If you put some of your ideas out there it might be interesting to see what comes back.

I'll defer to others for help with the rest of your questions, I'm just a lowly undergrad.

If you want to do a quick literature review yourself, Google Scholar is a really handy search engine and you'll usually get abstracts which are useful.

I just went and had a look at that - cant believe I hadnt been there before ! I love it! Ive got a list as long as your arm on things I need in the science arena but some things came to the surface a bit with the breed health surveys which we didnt really expect too. I get frustrated by what seems to be results that dont take us anywhere. Im reluctant to talk about examples out loud because I dont want anyone thinking that I think their work isnt worthwhile and Im probably missing a huge chunk of the picture but perhaps you guys need to go a bit slower and explain a bit what the results will mean for the dogs and us.

We are told there is a study going on where CC pedigrees are being analysed to see the level of inbreeding - thats nice but regardless of whether the study shows we do it a lot or not much where does that take us and how does it help the dogs - all I can see it doing is either giving something to the ANKC to defend accusations with or giving those who are accusing them something to argue with. But if we dont know whether the in bred animals are healthier or not healthier than animals which are not in bred and in fact we have NO heath or genetic data on any name on the pedigrees which are being looked at how does this help us or the dogs? - Or do we simply say - O.K. they are inbreeding and we know inbreeding causes health issues so their dogs have ill health - or if it goes the other way we say they are not in breeding very much and we know animals who are not in bred are healthier so therefore their dogs dont have health issues.

And if we came up with themoney how much input would we have?

[Tralee]

OK Steve

Does it have to be a PhD student?

What about an Honours, or Masters candidate?

Basically, as I understand it, the student needs to think up a proposal for a thesis and then needs to find a supervisor who is interested in and working in that area.

As you know, Linda van Bommel has recently completed a PhD on livestock guardians.

I am thinking she would have some ideas.

Linda van Bommel

PhD student

tel: 04 37573182

email: [email protected]

[Diva]

And if we came up with themoney how much input would we have?

If I might add my 2 cents worth, if you come up with the money make sure you have a lot of input. It's not like ARC or some of the 'purer' research funders, as I have read this you will be funding to get answers you need. I don't mean influence the results, that's bogus, but don't give up engagement with the process.

I have commissioned a lot of applied research irl, from a range of research providers - Unis, CSIRO, CRCs. (Not dog related.) In my experience you need to be an engaged 'client' to get the best result. That means making sure the research question is framed to really answer your question, not just reflecting the research interests of the scientists. It's a partnership of interests. Don't be timid in interrogating the methodology. Stay engaged so that the research doesn't drift into an area that is tangential to your core question. Make sure you get the results in a form that is usable to your stakeholders, eg if you need something more accessible than journal papers for your audience, or need the scientists to take part in knowledge adoption activities, make it clear at the start of the project.

The BC research referred to earlier sounds like a great model. Don't assume you can just put the money up and walk away for a really optimum outcome. The best researchers thrive working with fully engaged funders, others resent them. But those who resent them aren't those you want to be supporting anyway, imo.

If it was my money and I could afford it, I wouldn't bother with an Honours project. Aim higher if you have the resources.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Diva

[Tralee]

And if we came up with the money how much input would we have?

Total

In that case, an honours student would have to select your area of interest as a thesis.

If the student gets any worthwhile results it could become a PhD.

Are you aware of the time factor involved?

[Staranais]

If it was my money and I could afford it, I wouldn't bother with an Honours project. Aim higher if you have the resources.

Yes, I agree. I've done genetics honours, and one year just isn't as long as it sounds - there's really not enough time in one year to really get into the research and follow it up like you can while doing a pHD or even a masters.

I'd say the best thing is to work out what question you want answered, and then go talk shop with some university academics in the relevant field to find out what approach they'd take and what parts they think are do-able within the constraints of a pHD or masters.