I'm Curious.....about A Discussion Oh And I Were Having...

[Bluefairy]

OH and I were discussing the dogs we had as kids, and all those we have had growing up, then dogs we have had together in the last 15 years.

I remember as a kid having cross bred dogs, Doberman X, Long Haired Terrier type Heinz variety, and how robust and healthy they were, being fed normal dog food from the supermarket and scraps from our plates. About them hardly ever getting sick or needing diet changes. And about how they lived into their old age and died from that. OH has said pretty much the same thing growing up as me.

Then as I started to have more Pedigree dogs, Rotti's, GSD, Foxies, Mini Foxies, Pugs, etc....over the years the diet a dog is recommended to get, has changed from just plain dog food and scraps to high end specific breed expensive dog foods, scraps are mostly out as not being good. And dogs seem to be more sensitive to diet change. Getting ill a lot more and lots more vets bills. Making having a dog out of most peoples expense budgets.

Both OH and I wondered if its breeding that has caused this?

Knowledge of healthy diet, but is that a good thing, as it never harmed dogs years ago?

I'm not stating an opinion, I am just curious and it has got the better of me, and I wanted to discuss it with other dog lovers who have had dogs for years.

Dogs have changed, some for the better in the pedigree's health wise, some for the worse as in BYB's. I just find it curious as to why dogs of years ago seem more robust (only because I can't think of a name thats better) than most (not all) of dogs in the present....

What do you think?

BF

[Gayle.]

They weren't more robust. The robuest ones made it to old age, the less healthy ones didn't make it past puppyhood.

These days we have such good vet care that less healthy dogs are kept alive longer, albeit needing fairly regular vet care.

Robust dogs today will probably survive just as well on cheap dog food and table scraps.

[belverdere]

Maybe they havent changed so much as we have , you were at school and bust with friends and maybe didnt notice little things that went on now you notice more as dogs spend more time with you as an adult and we worry about them ....just a thought

[Ons]

my current dogs don't get any more visits to the vets than the dogs we had growing up did - they are two registered golden retreivers and a pound puppy - coolie, growing up we had two registered shelties.

But I am glad that I can feed them better food than the dogs growing up had. I agree with GayleK, robust dogs are always going to survive.

[Crazy Daisy]

I think science has a lot to do with it. There are so many more tests they can perform now on our animals and now know how to treat them. I think there are also a lot more preservitives and additives these days that our bodies and our dogs aren't used to.

I grew up with only purebred dogs and they all lived to very ripe old ages with supermarket dog food and scrapes and minimal vet care.

[Bluefairy]

Maybe your right. As a kid, though the dogs were always with us, inside and outside the house, we didn't pay as much attention as I do now. Maybe things my mother would hold off taking the dog to vet, is why I and other dog owners I know always seem to be at the vets about. We tend to panic more about little things....I never thought of that.

Maybe because life was a little more laid back than it is now and we worried about every little thing....Hmmmm I think your right

BF

[Aidan]

One of my dogs has never been to the vet for anything more serious than a hot-spot. The other would have died at least 3 times by now. Both are purebred.

I dare say our diets have changed too. I feed table scraps but I'm selective about it.

[Ons]

don't forget also that because of the internet and this Forum amongst other things we are much more aware of dogs illnesses.

Growing up we only really knew our dogs and the neighbourhood dogs and the relatives dogs. Now we know all the ins and outs of dogs world wide including all their illnesses so maybe dogs with allergies etc were always around, we just didn't know about them

[Ons]

don't forget also that because of the internet and this Forum amongst other things we are much more aware of dogs illnesses.

Growing up we only really knew our dogs and the neighbourhood dogs and the relatives dogs. Now we know all the ins and outs of dogs world wide including all their illnesses so maybe dogs with allergies etc were always around, we just didn't know about them

[pebbles]

I've often pondered that myself - I've had show dogs, various breeds, for over 50 years and really haven't had any serious problems. Yes, I've lost a couple of dogs in their middle age, one to cancer and one to a reaction to medication, this in the last ten years, all others have lived to their expected life span and longer. Way back we immunised against distemper only, Pal dog food was the high grade one supplemented with meat from the knackery, there wasn't the range of dry food that's swamping the market nowdays. Pups were weaned to Farex and/or Weetbix and ordinary milk, Pentavite was added. No puppy schools then so pups were socialised at home with family and any visitors who called. Adults didn't get supplements ie vitamins, etc. but any veges, meat etc left over from family meals was given. Bitches whelped naturally and reared their bubs well. I honestly don't remember having any dogs to the Vet apart from immunisations, woops, one Gordon Setter had a badly gashed leg stitched. My doggy friends back then didn't have many problems either, Vets didn't make their fortune from us.

[Sandra777]

We had a pedigree Cocker Spaniel growing up, he was related to some of the best show dogs, his litter brother was a major winner and stud dog, his sire and gsire were UK imports. The dog was at the vet more often than we were at the doctor. He was PTS at 8 years old after 7.5 years of chronic ear infections.

Fast forward to today & 30+ years with pedigree dogs (not Cockers) and I would say my dogs now are far more robust than that was dog - even though they're still at the vet more often than we go to the doctor

No allergy issues in a breed which "always" has these issues. Most vet visits are for self inflicted wounds!

Edited November 26, 2010 by Sandra777

[Bluefairy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering this

Getting a puppy was so simple back then. There was always a friend of a friend with a female who was weaning puppies (I'm talking about heinz variety dogs here). You got one home, fed it 3 times a day with weetbix and milk, and Pentavite was given if you knew about it. Then adult dog food and scraps, I can't remember if they had puppy food back then. Most dogs were flea treated and wormed, many weren't vaccinated that I remember. Desexing was done mostly for females and then not often. You just kept your in season female inside for that time, until it was safe.

I agree because of the internet everyone just about is more aware of nearly all problems that go wrong. I have had dogs die of cancer, had allergies but found out it was sarcoptic mites, had vomiting and diarrhea so constantly changing diets (via vet instructions) only to be put on a highly expensive vet food that seemed to work for a while (but always wondered if it could have been something else). Vets too freely suggesting all these expensive tests and drugs, only to find it was something simple.....

Are we better off now than then? I don't know, sometimes I feel we aren't

BF

[Staranais]

I think it's partly to do with vets being better at diagnosing problems, and there being more treatment options now.

40 years ago, dogs with cancer generally dropped dead or were put down if they were miserable looking, for example. Nowdays, we're more likely to detect the cancer before your dog dies of it, and you then have the option to buy surgery or chemo, at a price.

40 years ago you couldn't replace a dog's hips, or repair its cruciates, or diagnose and treat endocrine disorders, etc. Now you can, if you want to pay.

40 years ago my girl wouldn't have been able to get her shoulder OCD fixed. She might not have even gotten it diagnosed. She'd just be a dog with a permanent limp.

So there are more options, and more technology - but it's still user pays, hence more vet bills.

[pebbles]

Yes, the diagnostics are better now but there really didn't seem to be the problems requiring the advanced technology of these days. I can only speak of my dogs, various breeds, and the many show friends from those days who also had a variety of breeds. Back then it wasn't a secret society as far as any problems, breeders talked to breeders, we all knew if someone had a problem and there were the 'old' hands' (all long gone now') who would be helpful. If someone was unsure what sire to use there would be lots of discussion among us with recommendations. I have even heard a breeder say "my dog wouldn't suit your bitch, she needs more bone/angulation/size, whatever, and my dog doesn't excell in that".

Can you imagine that these days? Woops, off track a bit - but I do believe the dogs were healthier back then, the vast majority living to a good age.

Bluefairy - you're right, no puppy food, no puppy milk etc back then, just the good old Farex and Weet-bix!

[Linda K]

don't forget, peoples diets also weren't that flash either - I can remember my dad (who still raves about the bread & dripping sandwichs he had as a kid), was a very much a chops & 3 veg man, and without fail, our main meal was always lamb chops (overcooked), peas (overcooked), mashed potato & masked pumpkin - so any leftovers for the dogs were also the same things, certainly there is far more variety in our scraps now. Agree that pets are no so much treated as a disposable - if that one dies, someone down the street has just had a puppy / kitten, so here is the replacement (at least not by as many people anyway), and so having spent the time & effort searching out a new family member, we are more inclined to pay far more attention to them, and their needs, so are prepared to buy the premium foods, and also monitor the health a lot more (probablyl also helps there are a lot more 2 income families, so more money to spend on that) Long story short - I don't think it is so much we are creating more issues and breeding expensive animals to look after, as opposed to the "hybrid vigour" mongrels, I think it is more we are more around them to see things, and are more prepared to spend on them

[Erny]

I think it's partly to do with vets being better at diagnosing problems, and there being more treatment options now.

40 years ago, dogs with cancer generally dropped dead or were put down if they were miserable looking, for example. Nowdays, we're more likely to detect the cancer before your dog dies of it, and you then have the option to buy surgery or chemo, at a price.

40 years ago you couldn't replace a dog's hips, or repair its cruciates, or diagnose and treat endocrine disorders, etc. Now you can, if you want to pay.

40 years ago my girl wouldn't have been able to get her shoulder OCD fixed. She might not have even gotten it diagnosed. She'd just be a dog with a permanent limp.

So there are more options, and more technology - but it's still user pays, hence more vet bills.

I don't know the stats, but I can only say that we just simply didn't seem to see these things. Our dogs just generally lived to a ripe age (unless they were killed on the road, as the times were a changing during our childhood). We didn't see the lumps and bumps; the allergies (although our dog did suffer flea bite excema); the lameness etc.

Most of the dogs around our neighbourhood were pure bred. Majority of those were Labradors (we had a yellow one). I remember there being an Australian Terrier, a GSD, a JRT, a Blood Hound (he got stolen from the owers' back yard, btw - so that sort of thing did occur back then too, although not as rife as it is now), a couple of Daxxies and a Mini Poodle who lived in our street. There were more, but I'd have to really put on my thinking cap to remember them and their breeding. Funnily enough I don't recall the now more common breeds such as the Border Collie, Golden Retriever, Maltese or Shi tzhu being members of our immediate neighbourhood. I don't remember many 'Heinz Variety' dogs, although that's not to say I never came across them occasionally.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Erny

[kyliestar]

its the same with humans, back in the day no one went to the doctor for a cold, you didnt call a sniffle the flu and you didnt bleach every surface that your child might touch. humans are ruining our immune systems and the media is making us paranoid. now vets are telling us that you must feed your dog super expensive dry food thats specially catered to their breed (dog food companies PAY vets to promote their brand), they're vaccinating them for everything under the sun and people are being told not to feed raw meat because it will make them sick. it's all BS, my mum has never vaccinated her backyard bred dog, never took her to the vet until she was 9 when the council required her to be micro chipped, at which point the vet said she was in perfect health and that vaccinating her now wouldn't be necessary. this said, i'm not against vaccinating, but i do believe that a lot of this new crap that's being put out is just fear campaigns aimed at making money off your over priced purchases.

[newfsie]

I am 53...........And when i was a kid we has GSD's, three and one mongrel. Our dogs were fed food/veggies that my mother cooked for them and raw bones and meat. Not so different from the diet I have used for my own dogs since the eighties, except i cook even less. i just blanche my veggies for the dogs. Our GSD's lived to be 14, 15 and 12. the twelve year old had cancer and when diagnosed was PTS. the rest were hardly ever at the vet and very sound. Our dogs had been imported from the USA in the early 1970's and were the working line GSD's. Their pups were not popular, because of the way they stacked straighter. But the RAAF and Police were interested in them. Our mongrel lived to be 17, she was a greyhound lab cross that my Dad rescued at a greyhound track.

I am not sure why so many dogs spend so much time at the vet nowadays. "touch wood" mine are not frequently at the vet. Just for check-ups and one ear issue in the past four years. Our new newf rescue does however have lymphoma and sadly is untreatable, he is only nine.

As kids we took our dogs everywhere off leash, yes the GSD's went everywhere with two girls. I would have to ask my parents if they were vaccinated every year. I do know they had their Rabies shots in the USA and were in Quarantine for three month near Sydney somewhere. Maybe their immunity was also better, as was ours, because we roamed everywhere.

[Fleuri]

My dog (pure breed) is nine and he has been fed dry dog food and our dinner or scraps (which consists of veggies,meat, pasta,rice,bread everything we eat he eats the only veg he doesn't eat is lettuce and onion) all his life and he is very healthy. Our vet recommends feeding our dog the food that we eat. I have only needed to take him to the vet for his yearly vaccination. I have read it's not necessary to vaccinate every year, I will have to look into this.

In the yearly 80's we had a pure breed Collie rough. He was a very healthy dog, he died aged nine. Maybe I've just been lucky to have heathly dogs.

I think that because we live such busy lives we tend to be less patient with alot of things including our pet so we might just rush them to the vets quickly rather than try to find alternatives to non serious doggy ailments.

[Nekhbet]

dogs spend a lot of time at the vet because now the fashion is to promote 'check ups' every 6 months! What the heck! I can count the total amount of times my dogs have been to a vet on my hand and that is ONLY because it was a big deal (IE massive flap of skin hanging off dogs leg) everything else I do at home. Puncture wounds? Iodine and salt. Sprained yourself? Tough, go in a crate and I let the pain limit the dogs movement.

Also vets back then used to have more experience outside the box, if the dog was sick you rang them and they would usually tell you to give it a good dose of what you had handy and it would be right. Now ... OMG MY DOG HAS A SCRATCH! Vets told owners dogs have teeth, give them meat and bones to eat. If they have worms, worm them. If they're sore, tough titties if there's not something deathly wrong they probably would have asked you why you at their clinic too. Most of the time unless the dog WAS deathly ill people had enough brains or experience to fix things themselves. I'm becoming more dissapointed at the new generation of veterinarians too, many just parrot their text books and product guides at their clients which isnt right either. Many know very little about the impact of envrionment and diet, they (like many human doctors) work on the wrong end of the symptoms - mask them not solve the cause.

We're the generation that cannot think for ourselves and hence we like handing over everything that requires effort to others to just service for us. Vet - fix the dog. Just service it like a car and we'll be back when something else is wrong because we dont like getting our hands dirty and we just dont want to know, the media tells us ABC and we blindly follow. Christ we're the generation that has made so many artificial, starch and crap based treats and teeth cleaning products for our dogs because its just too much to admit the dog is a carniverous animal that loves chomping away on big meaty bones. The sheer idea of ANY parasite terrorises some people and hence lets pump our pets and environments FULL of pesticides and insecticides. They're part of the life cycle. They're not good but to bombard your animal every single day of its life with chemicals is not healthy - no wonder their immune systems are shot. As for breeding, my personal opinion is that we are breeding weaker animals. Weak both in temperament and in health. We shield away the puppies, we lock up dogs from disease and life and wonder why they're getting weaker. Decades ago a little more natural selection came into play or breeders were more willing to send the sick pups to heaven.