Dew Claws

[Steve]

Due to the Fact that Victoria now has laws which prohibit anyone other than a vet taking off dew claws this has made me think about why I started doing them in the first place.

The very first puppy I bred went into its new home on Christmas day 1973. I still have contact with this puppy buyer - bloody hell Im old!

Anyway back then the idea of cutting off dewclaws never occurred to me so my first few litters all went out with their dew claws on. Over time my puppy buyers would mention the problems they had with them - sometimes from them getting snagged on carpet or other injuries in the back yard but quite often because back then no one ever considered they needed to cut a dogs nails - let alone snip the nail on the dew claw to stop them growing round and into the leg. So originally I decided I probably needed to do them when they were little to avoid them suffering the pain of an injury. I was shown how to do it and all was well. I soon learned that the younger they were the better so I usually simply nipped them out as I was waiting for the next pup to be born when they were less than an hour old while the endorphins were still around which protects them from pain etc as they are being born.

Then I met my second husband who bred boxers and he had a whole other process and the dew claws were taken off at around 3 days and they cried and bled where mine didn't do either if they were done earlier. So I said it was cruel and couldn't handle it and the compromise was that we took the next litter to the vet . That was worse - they yelled more and had stitches so he watched what I was doing with the beagles and gave in and from then we always did dew claws when they were only a few minutes old. No pain , no bleeding no scars. No big deal.

Over the years my puppy buyers have changed. In the beginning people most likely to want my beagles were families with youngish kids .They chose the breed because it was easy and Id be surprised if one of them ever cut a toenail or looked at the dog's teeth etc - though back then teeth wasn't such a biggy as dogs ate bones and didnt have teeth like they do now.

These days the people most likely to want my puppies are child less couples who wouldn't understand how anyone could not clip toenails - and ensure the dew claw was O.K. every day.

Now they dont hang out in back yards on their own and most times they sleep inside as part of the family.

These days I don't do them and advise my puppy buyers to get the vet to take them off if thats what they want when they get the dog desexed [ when its out cold and cant feel it]

There is probably a valid case for continuing to take them off Maremmas as I doubt very much that most farmers go into the paddock and check the dogs toenails and dewclaws and there is a higher risk of injury because of what they do. If I got a few of my puppy buyers telling me of injuries or if mine were suffering because they had them on I would take them off again - but I wouldn't want to do them and then find out in a years time Ive broken the law. There has to a more appropriate way of informing breeders of what is coming so they can be involved in the discussions - and there has to be a better way of informing them of law changes.

[sllebasi]

I had never heard of taking dew claws of the dogs until these topics starting coming up. Wish it had of been done to my staffy, no end of problems with them splitting and getting caught. Short of taping them up not sure what I can do about them now (she is 11 now)

[whiskedaway]

I wish my dog had her dew claws removed as a pup - we keep an eye on them (they got a trim the other day) but I'm always afraid she's going to rip them off running around like a loney. Likewise, if we ever take her sledding (which we're planning on doing next year) there are lots of things she could get them caught on and that worries me. Probably should have had them removed when she was desexed but I didn't think about it.

[SilverHaze]

I wouldn't remove declaws on an older dog unless they were a real problem. We didn't remove them on our first few litters, however our latest litter, which was straight working lines, and all pups went to working homes, had their dew claws removed. Very quick process at the vets, no stiches no worries. I believe the pups protested more at being picked up than having their dew claws removed lol

I haven't had a dew claw injury while working the dogs, however when having to booty the dogs, dogs with front dew claws tend to have problems with the booties - either they come off, or they will rub the dew claw etc. So dew claw removal is done to ensure we can safely protect feet when working.

[SparkyTansy]

With the Vic law change, I take it you have to get a certificate from a vet to say that they have been done by a vet?

I wouldn't leave Dewclaws on a wei - their nails are thick and they are very active dogs. I wouldn't want to put them through the pain if i knew i could prevent it when they can't even feel it. If i had a breed with rear dews, I definitely wouldn't leave them there.

[idigadog]

8 out of our 10 dogs have had their dew claws removed. Like SH said, keeping booties on the two that have them, can be a real challenge.

We have new pups on the ground now and they will be done as well. I know it's very common for working line Sibes to have them removed, but not so much for the show lines.

[Janba]

I used to remove dew claws when I bred after a groomer clipped one of a dog when clipping her and thought that I didn't want a puppy buyer going throught that as it was very traumatic for the dog and me.

These days with the sheep work I am doing I want dew claws left on as they do seem to use them in turning etc as well as gripping things with their paws. I do very occasionally have dogs snag a dew claw in carpet etc but have never had a serious injury from it and my dogs tend to just wait till they are rescued.

Back dew claws I would remove.

[ACD4EVA]

Our 12 week old pup has them on the front and rear. Should we get them removed at the vet while he is still young? Should I get front and rear removed or just one?

[espinay2]

With my breed (Pyrenen Mountain Dogs) you leave them on - including the double rear dew claws. Removing them is kind of a 'taboo' subject with Pyr owners. Rear dew claws in particular can be very solidly connected and dogs which have had them removed (often by vets/rescues unfamiliar with the breed) have been known to suffer problems with their gait and soreness. In this particular case removing the double rear dewclaws is a bit like removing a big toe and is a major operation. I have had a couple injure a front dew claw (but never the rear). I still wouldnt think of removing them routinely though.

On the other hand, having groomed heaps of small fluffy dogs with long dew claws which grow around and back into their leg (out of sight out of mind and some of the owners didnt even realise they had them) I can see the benefit of them being removed in some cases.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Our 12 week old pup has them on the front and rear. Should we get them removed at the vet while he is still young? Should I get front and rear removed or just one?

When he is desexed have the rear ones removed. I have seen a GSD with caught rear one and it was not a pretty sight.

[dancinbcs]

I used to remove dew claws when I bred after a groomer clipped one of a dog when clipping her and thought that I didn't want a puppy buyer going throught that as it was very traumatic for the dog and me.

These days with the sheep work I am doing I want dew claws left on as they do seem to use them in turning etc as well as gripping things with their paws. I do very occasionally have dogs snag a dew claw in carpet etc but have never had a serious injury from it and my dogs tend to just wait till they are rescued.

Back dew claws I would remove.

Its only in recent years that I have come across a couple of breeders removing front dewclaws from Border Collies. Most of us have never even thought of removing front ones and now there is evidence that it helps stabalize the wrist in activities like agility, it seems we were well taught by the old breeders.

Rear ones are always removed and they can be done immediately after birth if they are just hanging by a thread, but I have always had the more solidly attached ones done by the vet at a few days. This included a few with doubles on the rear. In my experience rear dewclaws seem to be a dominant trait. I used to get them in every litter, then breeding on from dogs that were not born with them, I never got them again.

The issue of front dewclaws seems to be dependant on how much they stick out from the leg. In some breeds they are very prominent and I can see that they could cause problems, whereas my dogs have them neatly tucked in and removing them would have left an obvious dent in the leg.

I agree with Steve that removing them to save the owner clipping them is no longer an issue with modern owners, so I suppose it comes down to how many injuries they cause in a breed.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Sometimes it needs to be done for the dog's welfare. I just rescued a dog and had her dew claws removed, they were deformed with the nail pointing upwards and would have been at risk of getting caught in everything. I've seen dogs with dew claws hanging off, not nice.

Edited November 26, 2010 by dogmad

[Janba]

Its only in recent years that I have come across a couple of breeders removing front dewclaws from Border Collies. Most of us have never even thought of removing front ones and now there is evidence that it helps stabalize the wrist in activities like agility, it seems we were well taught by the old breeders.

Rear ones are always removed and they can be done immediately after birth if they are just hanging by a thread, but I have always had the more solidly attached ones done by the vet at a few days. This included a few with doubles on the rear. In my experience rear dewclaws seem to be a dominant trait. I used to get them in every litter, then breeding on from dogs that were not born with them, I never got them again.

The issue of front dewclaws seems to be dependant on how much they stick out from the leg. In some breeds they are very prominent and I can see that they could cause problems, whereas my dogs have them neatly tucked in and removing them would have left an obvious dent in the leg.

I agree with Steve that removing them to save the owner clipping them is no longer an issue with modern owners, so I suppose it comes down to how many injuries they cause in a breed.

I've never had a border with front dew claws removed though I have had dallies with them gone. The Shih Tzus were a bit different.

[persephone]

When working with guide dogs...and being involved with the breeding . I used to do all the dewclaws at a day or so old .It was easier for visually impaired folks to just clip the main claws..and there was less likelihood of scratches ..which, in diabetic folks, can be nasty .

Our working dogs ... if we ever have a pup born with rear dews..I whip them off - but we don't bother with front ones.. and although we have the odd dog rip off nails- have never had anything serious occur.

[Yacket's Mum]

I had one of my greyhounds front dew claws removed she ripped one nearly off so rather than stitich it back up I opted to have both removed she was not happy at the time she was 6 but when they healed she now is happy as there is no chance hurting them again. It is major surgery when they are older so if I had an option I would like them done when they are babies.

[shantiah]

I have always done my Italian Greyhound puppies. Just had my first litter of greyhounds and got them done too. It is not normal to do racing greys but show greys are always done. Since it is not normally done to race greys I discussed it with my vet who is a greyhound specialist. Given the number of dogs that do rip them on the track he actually thought it was a brilliant idea to do them.

Edit to add. My show greys also go to the track (although not entered in races as they cant be) and it has never affected their performance

Edited November 26, 2010 by shantiah

[Christina]

Only reason I get the vet to do them on mine is that I have seen so many in the fluffy breeds where the owner just forgot or didn't realise they were there & they grew into the skin. Very painful.

Under the impression that the reason for doing dew claws & docking tails between day 3 & 5 was that the pups nervous system is not developed so they don't feel it ?

If they are not removed properly, the whole joint, they will grow back.

[SpotTheDog]

Under the impression that the reason for doing dew claws & docking tails between day 3 & 5 was that the pups nervous system is not developed so they don't feel it?

Ah, I wouldn't like to bet that they don't feel it. However such procedures on tiny newborns are always faster because everything is small and soft and heals extremely quickly. The body is in absolute overdrive at that point - so bleeding stops in seconds, or hardly starts in some cases, wounds close extremely quickly and complications are very few. I believe they most certainly DO feel it, but their awareness is less at that age - their interaction with the world is all instinctual, so they do not feel stress or anxiety over such a procedure the way a more aware older pup, or dog, would. Their mobility is also restricted at that age, meaning there is less chance of disturbing the healing wound. There is still a chance of infection and all hygiene precautions should be taken. However I'd say the experience for a tiny pup would be sharp pain, squeal, pain dissipates, get on with feeding and being washed by mum, all forgotten very quickly.

What is comes back to then is whether or not it's necessary to cause them that sharp pain at all - and it would be my personal opinion that dew claws are worth taking off, and tails are not. My lad has cracked and split one of his dew claws already and he was only six months old when he did it. The claw broke and hung by thread of nail. He wouldn't let me near it and licked it for about a day because obviously the hanging piece was pulling and causing him discomfort. I waited until he was asleep on the floor that evening and whipped it off quick as with a nail scissors - problem solved. However it would be tragic if he didn't have his helicopter tail to tell everybody how happy he is all the time - and he's highly unlikely to ever be in a position where that gets caught or damaged because of being left intact.

[SparkyTansy]

It's also pretty tragic to see blood sprayed all over the walls from a split tail that just won't heal - but I digress...

[fuzzy82]

Depends on the dew claws doesn't it? In some dogs they aren't attached to the bone and just flop around and are useless anyway, but in some dogs they are attached and function as a thumb, like when they are holding something they are gnawing on.

Neither of my dogs have any dew claw issues, but I will admit I haven't had a close look to see if they are attached or not. I trim their claws about once a week to keep them short, so maybe that helps.