Just Experienced A Japanese Pet Shop.

[♥Bruno♥]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

[Souff]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

:D

Thank you Bruno.

You have said everything I wanted to say, and more.

Australian standards for animal welfare are up there with the BEST and we should be proud of that.

I am totally fed up with the AL bleaters that are infesting this forum which was put here for the use of the purebred dog world, they do little to help the purebred dog world and it is the idealogy of these same people that is destroying the future for purebred dogs.

Souff

[Shazzapug]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

yOU Go Girl!!

[melzawelza]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

That is absolutely ridiculous. You know what, when sows aren't kept in ridiculously small areas they DON'T crush their young!!! Sow stalls are a necessary evil because of what we have created.

I find it pretty ironic that people would be so against puppy farming and defend factory farming (yes, intensive farming). I guess because they are just pigs and chickens who gives a shit, yeah?

[melzawelza]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

That is absolutely ridiculous. You know what, when sows aren't kept in ridiculously small areas they DON'T crush their young! Sow stalls are a necessary evil because of what we have created.

I find it pretty ironic that people would be so against puppy farming and defend factory farming (yes, intensive farming). I guess because they are just pigs and chickens who gives a shit, yeah?

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other. Seems you are the one who needs to underhand what goes on.

Edited November 25, 2010 by melzawelza

[Souff]

[quote name='melzawelza' date='26th Nov 2010 - 02:21 AM' post='4982484'

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other.

Then take it up with the countries who have the lousy standards!!!!

GET OFF THE AUSTRALIAN BREEDERS BACKS!

The animals to which you refer are a food item and the breeders cannot dictate nor enforce what happens to the animals once they land on other shores. If you feel so strongly about these issues take yourself to those countries and seek change where it is needed and see how you go there.

Souff

[Moselle]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

By "free range" I mean it literally, there is a farmer that has a fair few chooks that roam under the great ozzie sun, he owns a couple of maremmas to keep the foxes at bay.

I am not the one that bags the ozzie farmer albeit I am against live exporting mainly due to the fact that they are exported to countries with no standards in place for the humane treatment of animals. Pertaining to the treatment of pigs....my understanding was that pigs are made to live their short life in stalls and NOT only when it comes to sows raising their piglets. I am not so sure that I agree in that sow stalls are a "necessary evil"....due to sows squashing their young otherwise. I am of the belief that wild pigs seem to be coping alright with the reproduction side of things as with all other animals in the wild.

[The Spotted Devil]

For anyone who is interested in the evidence of science there are pros and cons to intensive and extensive animal production in terms of animal welfare. That includes sows in stalls vs group housed sows; caged hens vs free range/barn hens etc. It's very complex and there are arguments on both sides.

[Gallomph]

.... Pertaining to the treatment of pigs....my understanding was that pigs are made to live their short life in stalls and NOT only when it comes to sows raising their piglets. I am not so sure that I agree in that sow stalls are a "necessary evil"....due to sows squashing their young otherwise. I am of the belief that wild pigs seem to be coping alright with the reproduction side of things as with all other animals in the wild.

Unfortunately, your understanding is incorrect. AA, Peta and co. constantly push the image of sows in stalls without actually telling the facts about what is happening in THIS country. A bit like their campaigns against pedigree dog breeders - they are not interested in telling the full story or any of the reasons why certain practices are used.

In Australia, 90% of sows only spend the first 4-6 weeks of their pregnancy in stalls. This is to allow them to be fed and cared for individually while the embryos implant and the pregnancy is established. They are then moved to group pens, where they fight vigorously to establish a dominance order, and they compete against each other for feed each day. Apparently most consumers believe this is more "welfare friendly", so now Aussie farmers will be phasing out all use of sow stalls. I guess all the extra injuries from sows fighting, not to mention all the miscarriages that will occur, will also be perceived as "welfare friendly"???

Farrowing crates are a different issue. They are necessary to prevent crushing of piglets. Sows only spend 3 weeks in them for each litter. Without them, piglet mortality from crushing ranges from 20 - 100% in any given litter.

You should do a little more research on wild pigs ... in fact they also suffer high mortality from crushing. They farrow 8-10 piglets per litter, usually 4-5 survive. That may be acceptable in wild pigs, but everyone would be up in arms if we allowed those sorts of mortality rates in domestic livestock. Research has been going on for 20+ years to try to find an alternative to farrowing crates that allows acceptable survival rates for piglets - no one has found the solution so far.

[♥Bruno♥]

Why should we be ashamed of live exports and 'factory' farming? And the term 'factory' farming is a made up term courtesy of PETA. The correct industry term is 'intensive' and 'non intensive'.

Live exports account for a major part of our economy. Have you actually been onboard a ship and witnessed with your own two eyes how the sheep are transported? Obviously you haven't. They are kept in fine conditions. No worse than when they are kept in the shearing shed while sick or during shearing.

All pork sold in supermarkets with a bone in it is Australian Pork. Retailers are not allowed to import any pork with a bone in, so if you want to make sure you are eating Aussie pork, go for roasts and chops, quite simple really. Sow stalls are a necessary evil, would you like to be a 500 gram piglet being rolled onto by a 200 kilo+ sow? They do not live in the sow stalls, they birth in there. End of story.

Enjoy your free range chicken, but know that you are no better off eating that than eating a nice piece of light deprived milky veal. Both are raised indoors and under lights.

This forum is a breeding ground for misinformation. If you want to bag farmers and the livestock industry, for gods sakes get your facts right first!

That is absolutely ridiculous. You know what, when sows aren't kept in ridiculously small areas they DON'T crush their young! Sow stalls are a necessary evil because of what we have created.

I find it pretty ironic that people would be so against puppy farming and defend factory farming (yes, intensive farming). I guess because they are just pigs and chickens who gives a shit, yeah?

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other. Seems you are the one who needs to underhand what goes on.

I have my facts straight and first hand. I don't just read of a website and pretend to know. I am a primary producer, we live export, and I am happy with the way it it undertaken. What happens to the sheep on the other side of the world is not my concern, nor do I have any right to dictate to people in another country, of another religion or custom, how to treat their food. And what proof do you have of sows not crushing their piglets when not in stalls? What website have you googled to get that snippet of info?

[Moselle]

.... Pertaining to the treatment of pigs....my understanding was that pigs are made to live their short life in stalls and NOT only when it comes to sows raising their piglets. I am not so sure that I agree in that sow stalls are a "necessary evil"....due to sows squashing their young otherwise. I am of the belief that wild pigs seem to be coping alright with the reproduction side of things as with all other animals in the wild.

Unfortunately, your understanding is incorrect. AA, Peta and co. constantly push the image of sows in stalls without actually telling the facts about what is happening in THIS country. A bit like their campaigns against pedigree dog breeders - they are not interested in telling the full story or any of the reasons why certain practices are used.

In Australia, 90% of sows only spend the first 4-6 weeks of their pregnancy in stalls. This is to allow them to be fed and cared for individually while the embryos implant and the pregnancy is established. They are then moved to group pens, where they fight vigorously to establish a dominance order, and they compete against each other for feed each day. Apparently most consumers believe this is more "welfare friendly", so now Aussie farmers will be phasing out all use of sow stalls. I guess all the extra injuries from sows fighting, not to mention all the miscarriages that will occur, will also be perceived as "welfare friendly"???

Farrowing crates are a different issue. They are necessary to prevent crushing of piglets. Sows only spend 3 weeks in them for each litter. Without them, piglet mortality from crushing ranges from 20 - 100% in any given litter.

You should do a little more research on wild pigs ... in fact they also suffer high mortality from crushing. They farrow 8-10 piglets per litter, usually 4-5 survive. That may be acceptable in wild pigs, but everyone would be up in arms if we allowed those sorts of mortality rates in domestic livestock. Research has been going on for 20+ years to try to find an alternative to farrowing crates that allows acceptable survival rates for piglets - no one has found the solution so far.

IT is all so puzzling. I am relieved to hear that sows are NOT confined to stalls for the entirety of their life but do sympathise with farmers having a battle on their hands due to high mortality rates of piglets and miscarriages. WHat has propelled the aussie farmer to phase out the use of stalls? Is it due to PETA?

[Gallomph]

.... Pertaining to the treatment of pigs....my understanding was that pigs are made to live their short life in stalls and NOT only when it comes to sows raising their piglets. I am not so sure that I agree in that sow stalls are a "necessary evil"....due to sows squashing their young otherwise. I am of the belief that wild pigs seem to be coping alright with the reproduction side of things as with all other animals in the wild.

Unfortunately, your understanding is incorrect. AA, Peta and co. constantly push the image of sows in stalls without actually telling the facts about what is happening in THIS country. A bit like their campaigns against pedigree dog breeders - they are not interested in telling the full story or any of the reasons why certain practices are used.

In Australia, 90% of sows only spend the first 4-6 weeks of their pregnancy in stalls. This is to allow them to be fed and cared for individually while the embryos implant and the pregnancy is established. They are then moved to group pens, where they fight vigorously to establish a dominance order, and they compete against each other for feed each day. Apparently most consumers believe this is more "welfare friendly", so now Aussie farmers will be phasing out all use of sow stalls. I guess all the extra injuries from sows fighting, not to mention all the miscarriages that will occur, will also be perceived as "welfare friendly"???

Farrowing crates are a different issue. They are necessary to prevent crushing of piglets. Sows only spend 3 weeks in them for each litter. Without them, piglet mortality from crushing ranges from 20 - 100% in any given litter.

You should do a little more research on wild pigs ... in fact they also suffer high mortality from crushing. They farrow 8-10 piglets per litter, usually 4-5 survive. That may be acceptable in wild pigs, but everyone would be up in arms if we allowed those sorts of mortality rates in domestic livestock. Research has been going on for 20+ years to try to find an alternative to farrowing crates that allows acceptable survival rates for piglets - no one has found the solution so far.

IT is all so puzzling. I am relieved to hear that sows are NOT confined to stalls for the entirety of their life but do sympathise with farmers having a battle on their hands due to high mortality rates of piglets and miscarriages. WHat has propelled the aussie farmer to phase out the use of stalls? Is it due to PETA?

Basically due to the "animal rights" groups, they have a lot of money for their campaigns and a lot of time to write letters to supermarkets etc. Aussie pig farmers could see the writing on the wall and decided to jump before they were pushed. The idea is to differentiate Aussie pig products from imported stuff that is produced in countries that have sows in stalls 100% of the time. Currently about 80% of bacon, ham and processed pork products is imported. However, it's not made very clear to consumers, so it would be nice if the Govt would improve the food labelling laws, and actually police them. It would also be nice if consumers would put their money where their mouths are, and actually buy Australian products, even if they are more expensive. Unfortunately many consumer surveys have shown that while people say they are concerned about the way meat animals are raised, when push comes to shove they almost invariably buy the cheapest product, not the one produced in the way they say they'd like it to be produced.

[Souff]

BRUNO and GALLOMPH

So nice to hear from the producers

Yes, those who are sprouting off the propaganda would do far better to put their money into buying Australian produce and finding out WHAT is really happening in Australia.

It is the old story ..... too many people are simply believing what they read/hear/see in the media, and what they are read/hear/see is often put in the media by those with a stated agenda - to get rid of the practice of farming animals for food.

Promotion of Australian information by some of the major players in primary industry would not go astray.

Souff

Edited November 26, 2010 by Souff

[melzawelza]

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other.

Then take it up with the countries who have the lousy standards!!!!

GET OFF THE AUSTRALIAN BREEDERS BACKS!

The animals to which you refer are a food item and the breeders cannot dictate nor enforce what happens to the animals once they land on other shores. If you feel so strongly about these issues take yourself to those countries and seek change where it is needed and see how you go there.

Souff

Ok Souff, to try and vaguely get back to the initial topic - I hope if i delved back through your posts I wouldn't see you in threads discussing the exports of whole registered litters to Japan damning these breeders. To follow your logic then what happens to the pups when they get there is none of the breeders concern and everyone on here needs to shut up and get off the breeders backs. If anyone here has a problem with the way the pups are treated once they get to japan, they need to take it up with japan. It's none of the breeders concern as to what happens when they get there

[Souff]

Ok Souff, to try and vaguely get back to the initial topic - I hope if i delved back through your posts I wouldn't see you in threads discussing the exports of whole registered litters to Japan damning these breeders. To follow your logic then what happens to the pups when they get there is none of the breeders concern and everyone on here needs to shut up and get off the breeders backs. If anyone here has a problem with the way the pups are treated once they get to japan, they need to take it up with japan. It's none of the breeders concern as to what happens when they get there

It is highly unlikely that you will find any posts of mine discussing exports of any pups to Japan.

But I agree with your logic - if you have a problem with what is happening in Japan then take it up with Japan because there is bugger all that we can do about it from here.

Souff

[Souff]

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other.

Then take it up with the countries who have the lousy standards!!!!

GET OFF THE AUSTRALIAN BREEDERS BACKS!

The animals to which you refer are a food item and the breeders cannot dictate nor enforce what happens to the animals once they land on other shores. If you feel so strongly about these issues take yourself to those countries and seek change where it is needed and see how you go there.

Souff

Ok Souff, to try and vaguely get back to the initial topic - I hope if i delved back through your posts I wouldn't see you in threads discussing the exports of whole registered litters to Japan damning these breeders. To follow your logic then what happens to the pups when they get there is none of the breeders concern and everyone on here needs to shut up and get off the breeders backs. If anyone here has a problem with the way the pups are treated once they get to japan, they need to take it up with japan. It's none of the breeders concern as to what happens when they get there

Your attack on Australian sheep growers who are involved in export of live sheep was cowardly and uncalled for and has absolutely nothing to do with what you saw in a pet shop in Japan. Next time put the brain into gear before you attack those who have to try and make a living from the land, put yourself in their shoes. They have come through years and years of drought. There are Mums out there who have to finish raising their families because their hubby committed suicide when he couldn't stand seeing his sheep die in the drought and there was no money to transport them anywhere. It is not an easy life but we have some of the best animal growers in the world right here in Australia and as the others have said the standards of export are now high. The bills have to be paid MW, and how the receiving countries handle their lamb dinner is their business. If it needs improving, then attack them. Do not attack the Aussie farmers. G'night!

[The Ark]

ETA: the problem with live exports is not the way they are transported. It's the fact that they are exported to countries with next to no animal welfare laws, that do NOT adhere to our Australian standards. Once thy are off the boat we have no way to control how they are treated or slaughtered. They are commonly put in car boots and strapped to roof racks and each other.

Then take it up with the countries who have the lousy standards!!!!

GET OFF THE AUSTRALIAN BREEDERS BACKS!

The animals to which you refer are a food item and the breeders cannot dictate nor enforce what happens to the animals once they land on other shores. If you feel so strongly about these issues take yourself to those countries and seek change where it is needed and see how you go there.

Souff

Ok Souff, to try and vaguely get back to the initial topic - I hope if i delved back through your posts I wouldn't see you in threads discussing the exports of whole registered litters to Japan damning these breeders. To follow your logic then what happens to the pups when they get there is none of the breeders concern and everyone on here needs to shut up and get off the breeders backs. If anyone here has a problem with the way the pups are treated once they get to japan, they need to take it up with japan. It's none of the breeders concern as to what happens when they get there

Sorry, but this is an awful way to think. Of course it is the breeder's concern - breed a pup and you are responsible for its welfare. I am amazed that you actually think it is okay for a responsible breeder to think that way.

[Souff]

Wrong.

A breeder is responsible for choosing WHO THEY SELL THE PUP TO.

After that, the responsibility for the pup's welfare is on the shoulders of the person who bought the pup and is from that point the legal owner.

I cannot think of one breeder in Australia (that I would call a friend) who would ever allow their pups to be sold to anyone who was likely to on-sell to a pet shop in Japan, or to a pet shop in any other country for that matter.

We have plenty of excellent homes in Australia for our puppies.

There are some excellent people around the globe who also can give wonderful homes to our pups, but a good breeder needs to know them well before selling, and reputable breeders make sure this happens.

However, the idea of the breeder being responsible for the welfare of the pup after it leaves the care of their hands is way off the mark - the pup is legally owned by another person and unless we can regain ownership of the pup the breeder can do nothing, other than to report to the relevant authorities.

I say again:

If people dont like what is happening in other countries with animal welfare, then they will have to lodge their objections with those countries, or with international agencies who have some sway in those countries.

The United Nations is not a bad place to start.

SOuff

[Staranais]

Actually, Australian pig farmers just voted to voluntarily phase out sow stalls. Just announced this week :D

Thank goodness.

ETA: pity they're not also phasing in something like the Weribee pen systems or Ellipsoid crate system for farrowing to replace regular sow crates. Both provide better sow welfare & no more piglet crushings than regular sow crates. However, that would require people to pay more for their pork, since they allow the sow much more room (hence, fewer sows can be farmed per square meter of land - costs farmers more to produce each piglet). As a previous poster mentioned, many consumers would rather source cheaper offshore pork than more expensive humane locally produced pork. So, we can't just blame the famers - we as consumers determine what they produce by what we will pay for. :D

Edited November 26, 2010 by Staranais

[WoofnHoof]

Actually, Australian pig farmers just voted to voluntarily phase out sow stalls. Just announced this week :D

Thank goodness.

ETA: pity they're not also phasing in something like the Weribee pen systems or Ellipsoid crate system for farrowing to replace regular sow crates. Both provide better sow welfare & no more piglet crushings than regular sow crates. However, that would require people to pay more for their pork, since they allow the sow much more room (hence, fewer sows can be farmed per square meter of land - costs farmers more to produce each piglet). As a previous poster mentioned, many consumers would rather source cheaper offshore pork than more expensive humane locally produced pork. So, we can't just blame the famers - we as consumers determine what they produce by what we will pay for. :D

Agree there are many options available to farmers to improve welfare but they all cost money, once consumers learn that good welfare costs more they will incorporate it into paying more for a premium product, which many consumers already do - how many of us buy brand name foods over no name because we associate the brand with better quality? The same needs to happen with welfare friendly foods. I don't see why we need labeling laws it is up to the retailers and processors to label effectively we need to start marketing better welfare products as a premium product there is currently nothing stopping brands from labeling their product in such a way as to draw attention to the improved welfare standards under which the product is produced.

I also believe that live export should be avoided if possible but until we can convince the export countries to accept processed product I don't see how to improve it.