Introducing 2nd Female Dog.

[Kitt]

Hi everyone,

I've done a few searches but haven't found any threads dealing with exactly what I'm after, but please direct me elsewhere if this issue has already been addressed.

Also, please be gentle if pointing out that I'm doing something wrong. I'm after advice and will be happy to take on board everything that is said.

I have a very healthy, desexed, 12-year-old female greyhound named Deanna. We're moving to a bigger house in two weeks especially so that I can get a 2nd greyhound (that was the condition my OH put on my getting another greyhound). The new greyound will be arriving the day after we move in.

The new greyhound, Lucy, is a desexed 2-year-old female. She has been in foster care for several months with a few dogs, including a female; and with cats and kittens. The foster carer and the rescue lady have told me that Lucy has no problems with other females, and has curled up with the kittens. Deanna met Lucy at her foster home and they went to a dog park together; no problems. So there is nothing glaringly obvious to indicate that there would be problems. My current greyhound Deanna is very submissive and I feel that she would happily allow another dog to be top dog. Also, Deanna has played with female dogs at the park without problem, and has lived with several dogs, but I'm not sure if any were females.

I know that two females can be a tragic combination. After Lucy arrives, I will have 4 weeks at home so that I can watch them.

My questions are:

1. What things should I look for that might indicate that there would be serious problems between the two dogs? That is, what is a minor, to-be-expected issue as they sort out pack order; and what is an indicator that they really shouldn't live together?

2. Do you think that it's simply not sensible to get two females? Obviously, there is no combination of dogs that is absolutely guaranteed to be 100% safe, but do you think it's just ridiculous for me to be getting a 2nd female dog? Deanna and Lucy have both been fine with other females, and the rescue lady said they should be fine, but I just wanted to get DOLers' opinions.

I will check with the rescue lady to make sure that there is indeed a trial period so that I can return the dog if there are any major issues. The dog is from a lady who is associated with a rescue group (not GAP or Friends of the Hound). I would prefer not to name the rescue lady on the public forum, for her privacy.

Also, any tips on ensuring a smooth integration would be great. My understanding is that I should continue to pat the existing dog first (i.e., treat her as the top dog) until they sort out the pack order; and feed them separately.

Lucy, the new dog, is due to join us in two weeks, so I do have a bit of time to discuss the above points with the rescue lady - just wanted to get DOLers' advice. Please be gentle with your advice

Thanks in advance,

Andy.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Kitt

[harley]

Gee, I think you have done a great job researching your new dog and her personality.

I have a male/female combination but I think introductions should be done the same way regardless of which gender they are. Perhaps another neutral introduction and then walk home together? Have someone else to help you with this. Try not to be too anxious because they will pick up on this.

Our greyhound joined us earlier this year. They had 2 little disagreements and now get along great! Ours took a couple of months to really settle in and show us any affection. Before this she was very aloof with us.

I wish you all the best with the introduction of your newest family member!

Edited November 24, 2010 by harley

[Dogsfevr]

we never had issues with our female greys together

The only thing that i would be concerned with is at 12 yrs moving house will be a massive change for the old girl & she may be become overwhelmed with finding her new spots plus adding a new dog to the equation.

I personally would be allowing the old girl more time to adjust to the move & settling first

[Kitt]

Thanks Harley and Showdog.

Showdog - your dogs are beautiful. Good point about the fact that Deanna might have problems settling in the new place. I'm thinking she might be ok, because I've taken her with me to stay at friends' places and she's fine in the new environment as long as she knows where I am. So I'm hoping that she will be the same in the new place - relaxed and happy because I'll be with her for the first 4 weeks. However, what you've mentioned - introducing the new dog after Deanna has been in the new place for a while - is something I'll discuss with the rescue lady and foster carer.

Any other tips about signs of trouble or ways to ensure a successful integration would be great.

Thanks again,

Andy.

[Kitt]

Harley, good idea about walking them home together from a neutral place. I know that some people don't think this is encessary, but I imagine that it certainly wouldn't do any harm. My Mum will be visiting me that day, so I might ask the rescue lady to bring Lucy up the road so that Mum and I can walk the two dogs home together. Thanks for the advice.

[iltby]

I don't see why it wouldn't be sensible if you introduce them properly and have strong leadership and so on. We have 3 bitches and have had very few problems.

I'd just keep an eye on signs of dominance...things like mounting, raised hackles, very rigid body language, etc. Don't have any toys or food lying around and don't allow the old dog to be possessive of you.

Our way of introducing new dogs has always been to keep them separated for 2-3 days, having the new one walk through the house while the others are outside for them to get used to the new smell, then introducing them through a barrier and then finally face to face. That's always been very successful.

I can't think of much other advice. Best of luck with it

Edited November 24, 2010 by iltby™

[Kitt]

Thanks Iltby. You mention watching for signs of dominance.

I'd just keep an eye on signs of dominance...things like mounting, raised hackles, very rigid body language, etc. Don't have any toys or food lying around and don't allow the old dog to be possessive of you.

Is it a big problem if one of the dogs does raises its hackles and does a little snap and the other one happily submits - e.g., walks away, and then they both settle? That is, if one of the dogs shows a few dominance behaviours with the other dog (not with me), and the other dog doesn't fight back, is that ok? Would that just be a normal way of sorting out who's boss?

Thanks again,

Andy.

[geo]

Our family had 2 boxer bitches growing up (intact), the only things that could set them off was food (rarely) or attention jealousy, other than that they were great, though they were mother and daughter, not sure how much a part that played.

Good luck! i'm sure it'll be ok! just be weary when you first start to play with them or add toys to the equation.

At the moment I tend to seperate my male and female when it's ball time as the female can get dominant, then there is times when they'll play tug happily, that is until the female wants the rope then it's dagger eyes and the male lets go, but we've put some effort in to stop her doing this.

Good on you for rescuing a dog!

[Kitt]

Thanks everyone for your answers. I'll be careful with food and toys - feed separately and watch for tension over toys.

I'm just worried about coming home to find one of them has been attacked by the other, so was hoping to get people's ideas about which behaviours represent normal "figuring it out" stuff (figuring out who's boss), and which behaviours indicate that there might be serious ongoing problems. Or maybe there's not much difference between those behaviours? Maybe the critical thing is how long those behaviours last? I'll be home with them for the first 4 weeks, so hopefully by the end of that time I'll be able to see whether they've sorted out who's boss and are happy.

Both dogs seemed fine when they met eachother. However, if we just assume that there might be problems: If, at the end of a couple of weeks, they're still fighting, would that be an indication that they're not suitable to live together? That's a very all-or-nothing question, I know, but I would hate for something to happen and look back and think that I should have seen it coming.

Thanks again everyone.

Andy.

[CBL]

Over the first few months our 2 greys had a few run ins. Our older dominant boy would growl and have a snap at the new girl Lilly, but it was all noise and over and done with in a few seconds. Lilly would make a blood curdling death scream but there would never be an injury. The fact that it was all noise and very very short, to me meant that it was just settling in 'who's boss' arguments.

They have lived happily together for 2 years now. Of course there are very occasional disagreements (think once every 6 months), but again, all noise and over and done with instantly.

[KumaAkita]

we never had issues with our female greys together

Took me a minute to work out where bodies started and heads finished... great photo!

[jesomil]

I have always had 2 or more girls together and never had a problem. Hopefully you wont either. It sounds like you have done all the right things to find a suitable second dog.

Its normal for dogs to have a small snap if another is annoying it and it should only last 1 second.

Just make sure you are the leader, dont baby the new dog and dont let the new dog get away with everything just because she is new.

[iltby]

Thanks Iltby. You mention watching for signs of dominance.

I'd just keep an eye on signs of dominance...things like mounting, raised hackles, very rigid body language, etc. Don't have any toys or food lying around and don't allow the old dog to be possessive of you.

Is it a big problem if one of the dogs does raises its hackles and does a little snap and the other one happily submits - e.g., walks away, and then they both settle? That is, if one of the dogs shows a few dominance behaviours with the other dog (not with me), and the other dog doesn't fight back, is that ok? Would that just be a normal way of sorting out who's boss?

Thanks again,

Andy.

I personally wouldn't make a big deal of it, dogs are allowed to be grumpy with one another, just not to the point of fighting obviously. So no, I don't believe that would be a big issue

ETA: Definitely wouldn't leave them home alone together for quite a few months also.

If they're fighting regularly I would say it wasn't going to work out. If they're not getting along within 4 weeks I'd think it wouldn't be a suitable situation.

Edited November 25, 2010 by iltby™

[mita]

One two occasions I've had to introduce a new adult female tibbie (retired from a breeder) to our home where there already was another adult female tibbie (also originally retired from a breeder). In each case, the new tibbie girl was the one with the stronger personality.

For a few months, there were a few minor hissy, girly fits.

But our tibbie girls live a very social life....love going out, love sitting up of the back seat of the car together. They go & do everything together.

As a result, I've found that the hissy stage is followed by their bonding very, very strongly. They become devoted to each other. If one is up on the deck, or in the back seat of the car, she gets restless until her 'sister' joins her.

Our biggest worry has then been how one misses the other terribly if something happens to the other.

[Aziah]

I haven't read all the replies, a suggestion I would make is when Lucy arrives take both her and Deanna out for a walk as their new introduction (ie. do that instantly, when Lucy arrives go straight out for the walk), a good walk and home again in the gate together etc.

[mita]

I haven't read all the replies, a suggestion I would make is when Lucy arrives take both her and Deanna out for a walk as their new introduction (ie. do that instantly, when Lucy arrives go straight out for the walk), a good walk and home again in the gate together etc.

That's an excellent suggestion to immediately take the pair on a walk...& back thro' the gate together.

I've certainly found that doing things that both dogs like, together, really helps them bond.