becks Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Kennel Club Agrees New Approach To Caesarean Sections 23-Nov-10 The Kennel Club has had discussions with the major veterinary organisations over restrictions on the number of litters born by caesarean section which may be registered from an individual bitch from 2012. The Kennel Club has confirmed that it will no longer register any puppies born by caesarean section from any bitch which has previously had two such operations, except for scientifically proven welfare reasons and in such cases normally provided that the application is made prior to mating. Refusal to register a third or subsequent litters of puppies born by caesarean section would occur irrespective of whether the progeny from either of the first two operations had been registered with the Club. Following discussions with the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, the British Veterinary Association and the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the organisations have agreed to advise their members that any caesarean sections which they perform on a Kennel Club registered bitch should be reported to the Kennel Club. To allow the reporting of such operations by veterinary surgeons, an additional section will be incorporated into the form which is presently completed to notify the Kennel Club of any operation which alters the natural conformation of a registered pedigree dog. This policy will become effective for all litters born on or after 1st January 2012. Further details relating to the timing of reporting by veterinary surgeons will be announced in due course. Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club Communications Director, said: “Adding the reporting of litters born by caesarean section to the paperwork already used by veterinary surgeons will go a long way to enabling us to achieve our objective of improving the health and welfare of all pedigree dogs. “It is particularly vital that the Kennel Club knows as much as possible about surgical operations which alter a dog’s natural conformation, so that we can continue to ensure that only those pedigree dogs which are healthy are likely be used for future breeding.” Peter Jinman OBE, President of the RCVS, said: “We are very pleased to see that the Kennel Club is taking steps to limit the number of litters which it will register born by caesarean section from a bitch. We are keen to support this move, although in time we would very much like the limit to be reduced to one caesarean only. But this is the first step, which demonstrates that we are all working towards the same end: an improvement in health for all dogs.” The Kennel Club will amend its regulation B22c to cover the new policy regarding the registration of puppies born by caesarean section. The amended part of the regulation will read as follows: ‘The General Committee will not accept an application to register a litter when:- (5) The dam has already had two litters delivered by caesarean section, save for scientifically proven welfare reasons and this only normally provided the application is made prior to the mating.’ The litter form to be completed by breeders will also be amended to incorporate the new policy. A new section will appear in red on the form asking the breeder if the litter was delivered as a result of a caesarean section, and whether this was elective or an emergency procedure. The form will request details of how many caesareans, including the litter in question, the bitch has had. Guidance notes will also appear on the litter application form/online services relating to the above under the heading ‘Caesarean Sections’ and will confirm the revised Regulation B22c. All puppies born by caesarean section will be marked accordingly in the Breed Record Supplement. The Kennel Club recognises that some breeds will be affected more than others by this new policy and intends to review its efficiency after a period of a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 It will be interesting to follow what comes of this. I'd guess it's a disaster for a few breeds ....but may save other breeds from evolving into types that cannot whelp freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 So, now, if the bitch needs a 3rd caesarian, the pups will not be able to be registered, so that member will leave the UKC and most likely the ANKC as well if the rule is enforced here. Bitches aren't always caesared for inertia, or to have elective caesars. Sometimes pups are stuck, too big etc. I had one have a caesar and the 3 pups were so huge, the uterus was bulging, and the pups were basically glued to it. The next litter was fine. However, I can see a scenario where that happened, then at the next litter, 2 pups met at the junction, and neither allowed the other to pass, and on the third litter, there were 10 whelps, causing the bitch to suffer from inertia, so a caesarian was necessary. 10 pups would not be registerable. Options would be to not register the pups (against the COE) or have the bitch pts, pups and all. All breeders will choose each method. At first, the regulations were more or less reasonable - very few people do first generation matings; very few people breed more than 4 litters, and in Q it was fine with a Vets certificate; very few people have 3 caesaers. But they are removing the autonomy of the breeders. I spoke to several on the weekend who do not think someone who loves their breed would abandon breeding, but they are not prepared to abide by the new regulatons, and those which will follow, so they will not renew their membership next year. Others will no longer breed. And we have hardly any registered pups now. so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Now see if find that new proposal far more palatable then restricting the number of litters a bitch can whelp. My bitches free whelp and come from long lines of free whelpers. Perhaps they should reduce it to one c-section and the bitch is out. It wouldn't impact on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 :dancingelephant: :birthday: :birthday: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Sorry could not help myself pity they do not do the same thing to humans. I think that sometimes maybe a caesar is done as in humans to save the life of the pups. And possiblely because it suits the life style of vet and breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullyfan Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 hmmm will definately impact me, certainly will make it difficult with massive pups and uterine inertia, and the occasional water pup........ Lucky they don't follow this protocol with humans.... I'd be in strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 hmmm will definately impact me, certainly will make it difficult with massive pups and uterine inertia, and the occasional water pup........ Lucky they don't follow this protocol with humans.... I'd be in strife. Isn't this one of the reasons behind a lot of these rules - to get back to dogs being free whelping as they should be able to do. Birth weight or size is inherited and by continuing to breed from large birthweight pups the problem perpetuates itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 or will it just cut down on the number of registered litters?? of course it is down to the honesty of the breeder to state whether a litter was born by c-section or not, vets don't know the registered names of the dogs or which 'pedigree' dogs they treat are even registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 It wouldn't impact on me. That is perhaps the most common but scariest responses. When they come to restrict something that impacts on you, don't expect anyone to be left to stand with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 It wouldn't impact on me. That is perhaps the most common but scariest responses. When they come to restrict something that impacts on you, don't expect anyone to be left to stand with you. Thankyou for proving my point. In other threads that call for restrictions of numbers, number of litters, age of bitches, how long a bitch has off from the show ring when in whelp etc, others have said that it won't impact on them because they do it such and such a way, therefore they don't have an issue with it. I just chucked the response in this thread, to see how others would react, when it's something that touches a bit closer to home... food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHRP Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 As some one who has decided never to own a breed that can not routinely free whelp I think this rule has merit. The danger I do see is with someone who has bred a bitch that has previously had two c-sections in the hope that a third one won't be necessary, risking the bitch by holding off on a c-section if it does become necessary and leaving it too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 It wouldn't impact on me. That is perhaps the most common but scariest responses. When they come to restrict something that impacts on you, don't expect anyone to be left to stand with you. Thankyou for proving my point. In other threads that call for restrictions of numbers, number of litters, age of bitches, how long a bitch has off from the show ring when in whelp etc, others have said that it won't impact on them because they do it such and such a way, therefore they don't have an issue with it. I just chucked the response in this thread, to see how others would react, when it's something that touches a bit closer to home... food for thought whew ! I was hoping you were playing devils advocate, as I was having trouble wording a very :dancingelephant: response to you !! people tend not to run until their own asses are on fire. fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 It wouldn't impact on me. Yup - reminise of the Tail docking issue. Lets not even go there - how are those braccy breeds fairing now ??? And they are slapping you with C-Sections as well. Well we may have to have fugly tails on our dogs but at least we won't have to change their entire head structure and we will be able to whelp them - albiet not when or how its suits us . For Dogs sake we have to stop this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 It wouldn't impact on me. Yup - reminise of the Tail docking issue. Lets not even go there - how are those braccy breeds fairing now ??? And they are slapping you with C-Sections as well. Well we may have to have fugly tails on our dogs but at least we won't have to change their entire head structure and we will be able to whelp them - albiet not when or how its suits us . For Dogs sake we have to stop this. Never fear, I am all for dicking, cropping and removing their dew claws. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Never fear, I am all for dicking :p :p :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Never fear, I am all for dicking :p :p :D :D I had a feeling I'd made a typo and just popped back in to correct it... too late :p I am going to leave it and let you enjoy your laugh, as you have quoted it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 omg. it would impact on me. in a huge way. 1 caesar with average litter size of 2. most of the time singletons, and they can get huge,which means a caesar, so the bitch will have just 1 pup. tough if its not good enough to breed or show from then huh? that line is just gone. IMHO breeders will not register c sections, until they get what they want from a litter, OR our breed suffers. there will be breeders who will have 2-3 litters in a row, hope that all but 1 free whelps, and throw ALL the pups on that one caesar, in case those free whelpers need a c section down the line. register the pups under that one dam, and hope to carry on. what about bull dogs? how will they fare? it will impact ALL dogs, you never will have free whelpers all the time over your breeding history. what if that one c section is a bitch you imported a huge expense, for the bloodlines, type.. she has a singleton that dies before you can get any pups out of that one. cant breed from the bitch anymore IN CASE she might need another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Never fear, I am all for dicking :p :p :D :D Now that would solve ALL of the problems they have with us breeders !!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't go giving them ideas - though thankfully it would be illegal just like tail docking :p . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Never fear, I am all for dicking :p :p :D :D I had a feeling I'd made a typo and just popped back in to correct it... too late :p I am going to leave it and let you enjoy your laugh, as you have quoted it Thanks! ;) On the question in hand though. Wouldn't impact me all that much either, but yet another example of people who don't know what they're doing sticking their noses in where they're not qualified to judge. Personally I wouldn't breed from a bitch after 2 caesars but I can understand the situation of small breeds with small/singleton litters. But do have to wonder if going back to the ''olden days'' when these breeds were bred from larger bitches and the small bitches may never have had a litter wouldn't be easier all around??????? But always think it's the owners choice and decision first and ethical breeders don't jeopardise their bitch's health or welfare anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 The more I think about it, the more appealing the idea of dicking the pollies becomes LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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