Betterment Of The Breed

[Paptacular!]

And winning in the show ring doesnt always necessarily mean that you are bettering the breed.

Do I need to explain more????? or do people get my drift???

I could be way off, but are you referring to the types that just breed & never step a foot into the show ring?

Personally, I think it's still a handy tool being compared against your peers.

I thought she was referring to judges who put up poor examples which continue to be bred from, so that's what people come to believe is acceptable.

[Bokezu]

I also think people that breed specifically for pet homes, don't care about having their dogs judged against others of the breed and don't really know a lot about the standard. Just breeding because they can, and because there is a huge pet market out there....They are not breeding for the betterment of the breed in my opinion

[espinay2]

And winning in the show ring doesnt always necessarily mean that you are bettering the breed.

Do I need to explain more????? or do people get my drift???

Loud and clear

Personally, I think it's still a handy tool being compared against your peers.

Maybe, but it depends on the breed knowledge of the judge. Winning sometimes become the main focus or goal for people and sometimes it can take over and become the only goal. Winning is fun, certainly, but sometimes I admit I don't put much weight on the opinion even if I do win. They are just one opinion and often a generalist one at that, that doesnt come from an indepth knowledge and understanding of the breed. Often important nuances are not understood or missed. This can particularly be the case with breeds that are less numeric in this country. Often all they have seen is what is here. They are trained as judges based on what is here. Pick the most acclaimed (by breeders and specialists) dog in the breed (alive or dead) internationally and imagine bringing it here. Would the average group or allbreeds judge recognise what was in front of them? I have my doubts.

[Wazzat Xolo]

And winning in the show ring doesnt always necessarily mean that you are bettering the breed.

Do I need to explain more????? or do people get my drift???

No, of course not but but a TRUE person who is aiming to better the breed would not show an example that was not worthy!!

and in any case the judge does not have to put a dog up!

[PomsNZ]

If you are breeding to better the breed, and lets say for arguments sake, GOOD STRONG BONE.

you have a breed that is known for tiny bone, and often is very fragile.

You bring in a dog with that good bone, and you show it.

what are you showing the judges? a DIFFERENT option. some judges may not like it, some may... some may even see YOUR way of thinking.

if you want our judges to always choose stick legs, then by all means, take dogs with stick legs to the show.

if you want dogs with good bone, then start taking them, you might loose a LOT but you are also training the judges that there is other types.

that same judge later on, with a bit more knowledge about the breed, understands that bone is a problem in your breed, suddenly sees a dog who is of good quality but with good bone, what is he going to do? OBVIOUSLY put yours up.

That same dog gets put up time and time again, other breeders are going to question WHY.

so please do not complain that the judges only judge to a type, (and yes i realise they do-failing that they go for the best known face)keep to your guns, yell it from the rooftops, yes im PROUD that my dog has strong bones, YES im going to show him/her becuase THIS is what our breed needs.

other exhibitors may even laugh at you, but if it is what YOUR breed needs, to continue and become a stronger dog, be proud that you are a ambassador for it.

I know I am.

[angelsun]

And winning in the show ring doesnt always necessarily mean that you are bettering the breed.

Do I need to explain more????? or do people get my drift???

I could be way off, but are you referring to the types that just breed & never step a foot into the show ring?

Personally, I think it's still a handy tool being compared against your peers.

There was a kennel in the Mid West USA that bred in my opinion the BEST Manchester Terriers at the time. They never showed..they hated the politics and bickering and nonsense. They beleived they were the best judges of what was correct in their breed, not someone that bred Labs or Poodles and took a test on their breed.

The dogs of this kennel (Whiteoak) were only titled when someone else bought one of their dogs, however the structure and overall breed type was second to none at the time, and almost all current success stories in the breed have a bit of Whiteoak in their lines.

I don't believe showing is the true test of whether the breeder is doing the right job....as mentioned as well, we see many incorrect dogs (blantent faults be it structure/colour/temperament) attaining titles and then being bred from....I've seen many outstanding dogs left out because they are a colour that's not in favour, or because they are in size in a group of oversized examples. The judges have put a lot of challenges on the breeders and not all good ones....pick the dog with the most coat in a breed where the coat would weigh the animal down and hinder its ability to work, but it's pretty and flashy and showy when puffed up and going around the ring.

many forget that the history and function of the breed is paramount for judging the breed. We the breeders know this (for the most part) but it gets lost often on the all breeds judges that must do their best to remember all the recognized breeds. They can't possibly and yet we as breeders continue to put our unwaivering trust in their opinion to determine our direction with our breeding programs.

[Wazzat Xolo]

many forget that the history and function of the breed is paramount for judging the breed.

well said and OMG so true!

[Christina]

Define betterment of the breed.

A question that is greatly open to interpretation according to the particular view of the breeder.

The show/ conformation standard is not all there is to it.

I show cats & recently looking at a male kitten for stud apart from noting the overall body for good muscular structure, apart from the extreme head type that the breeder focused on, I asked did they know the lifespan of any others in the pedigree.

Whelping history of the females & of any kidney issues.

This was more important to me than the rest.

The fact there there were some champions in the pedigree told me enough about type & temperament, as obviously they couldn't be shown with bad temperament or type.

I am not sure what the function of the toy poodle is. A companion to be loved I guess but I do know that apart from breeding to standard for looks, which is desirable, there are many other issues that make up betterment of the breed.

A dog that leads a long, healthy & trouble free life is highly desirable too. Not always easy to achieve, one can only try.

[Shazzapug]

I also think people that breed specifically for pet homes, don't care about having their dogs judged against others of the breed and don't really know a lot about the standard. Just breeding because they can, and because there is a huge pet market out there....They are not breeding for the betterment of the breed in my opinion

Totally agree with you on this point and will add they also disregard to the breeds detrement any health issues and so continue to breed and supply unhealthy pets and thus the breed as a whole is seen in a bad light

[Shazzapug]

And winning in the show ring doesnt always necessarily mean that you are bettering the breed.

Do I need to explain more????? or do people get my drift??? :p

I could be way off, but are you referring to the types that just breed & never step a foot into the show ring?

Personally, I think it's still a handy tool being compared against your peers. :D

I thought she was referring to judges who put up poor examples which continue to be bred from, so that's what people come to believe is acceptable.

I take the statement as meaning...If all else fails ie the judge knows diddly about your breed, they will put up the face and on most occasions with knowledge of the breed still put up the face.

[Christina]

I also think people that breed specifically for pet homes, don't care about having their dogs judged against others of the breed and don't really know a lot about the standard. Just breeding because they can, and because there is a huge pet market out there....They are not breeding for the betterment of the breed in my opinion

Totally agree with you on this point and will add they also disregard to the breeds detrement any health issues and so continue to breed and supply unhealthy pets and thus the breed as a whole is seen in a bad light

A completely opposite opinion to mine.

This is what I meant when I said, as part of my post,

A question that is greatly open to interpretation according to the view of the particular breeder.

2 of the cats I bred got their champion titles this year.

Cats I got from other breeders are on the condition that all kittens, except those I keep, are to be desexed before leaving me. I honour this agreement always.

I know the standard well for my breeds of cats & toy poodles & will not breed from any with even a small health issue or fault. Recently & sadly desexing my pick of the litter/show prospect puppy for a small fault that may have self corrected.

Interesting how views vary.