Rehoming High Drive Stafford

[persephone]

There are lots and lots and lots of dogs in the world that would chase cats, including one of mine.

Indeed ! all our dogs will hunt feral cats ...that's part of their job description - but don't worry about the house cats .They are not really high drive dogs- and are easy to control...

[JulesP]

I just don't see this having a good end. I can see staffy out walking, seeing a cat and lunging out of the owners hands..... Or jumping out of the car at home, seeing a cat and taking off.... Also hope new home has good fences.

Personally I would be treating and housing this dog as if it had been declared a dangerous dog.

There are lots and lots and lots of dogs in the world that would chase cats, including one of mine. I have no idea if he'd actually kill a cat or just chase it, but I don't take the risk. He's not difficult to manage. I think the issue here is more drive in general (mine is a lazy slug unless he sees a cat).

Yes but your dog hasn't killed 2 cats. Quite frankly if this dog got into my yard and killed my cat and I found out it had killed prior I would go psycho.

A staffy in prey drive is also a force to be reckoned with. A friend's 2 staffies actually ate a concrete pipe to get at a rabbit that was in it.

[persephone]

A friend's 2 staffies actually ate a concrete pipe to get at a rabbit that was in it.

Ok- that's dedicated!

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

A friend's 2 staffies actually ate a concrete pipe to get at a rabbit that was in it.

Ok- that's dedicated!

that's the thing, we have no idea of what the poster means when they say "high prey" drive.

the dog needs a professional assessment before it gets let loose on people that may not have an idea of what they are getting into.

i think not having that assessment is irresponsible of the current owner

[huski]

Just to clarify guys - I know this dog and he is a great highly rehomable dog who has stacks of potential in the right home. He just needs owners who understand and know how to manage a dog with a high prey drive.

[huski]

that's the thing, we have no idea of what the poster means when they say "high prey" drive.

Well I do, and she is accurate when she says he has a high prey drive.

[WreckitWhippet]

Now, down to the nitty gritty. I believe someone accused me of "glossing over" the facts of Q's behaviour. So, would you all have liked me to tell you all in graphic detail what he did to his "prey"? Would you all have liked me to tell you in even more graphic detail how I collapsed into my husbands arms and COULD NOT SPEAK TO TELL HIM MY DOG HAD KILLED HIS CAT? Would you have liked me to tell you that I have been so torn up about what to do that I thought driving my car into a tree was a good option at the time? That I haven't been able to eat or sleep because I feel I failed my dog? I FAILED? Did it occur to anyone to ask any questions rather than assume?

I asked the question as to what circumstances the dog has killed in. I think it's relevant and important as you are considering rehoming him. I think we can pretty much assume how life ended for the cat at it wasn't nice.

I've got a high drive bitch that would kill a cat in an instant, so believe me I understand where you are coming from and what you are dealing with. I can't see how if you cannot manage him, that you think someone without the breed experience and the knowledge to manage a dog like that will cope.

Providing him with a cat free home, will only limit his ability to kill, by taking away the opportunities. The drive will still be there and I have concerns for any new owner, it only takes an open front door, the kids to make a mistake or a cat to go by in a public place and catch them unawares.

I don't think it's fair to place such responsibilites on any new family. They would need to be very aware of what's going on around them at all times and vigilant to the point of being paranoid when looking out for other animals. He may be fine in a one on one home, with no cats and a new owner who is willing to spend the time with a behaviourist, which I don't see as overkill, but the responsible thing to do.

If he were mine, I'd be keeping him in his own run/kennel, with a roof on it and making sure that all cats were locked in cattery or enclosure when he's out being exercised. You can still provide him with the exercise and stimulation that he needs. He will have his regular outings to obedience and agility. I personally could not pass that responsibilty onto someone else and would never forgive myself if he harmed another animal after rehoming. If you feel you cannot meet his needs, then considering euthanising him, rather than passing the problem onto someone else.

[Aidan3]

I'm just curious about why behaviourists are seens as "overkill"? I would hope that most would provide excellent value for money and result in an excellent outcome for everyone, including your dog. As I understand it, people you know have sought out the expertise of a behaviourist from time to time.

[Staranais]

Q is my first adult male and I know when to call "uncle".

I just want to know in 20 years how you have never owned an adult male of the breed you have been breeding?

I wondered that too. It doesn't sound like this dog is displaying particularly unusual behaviour for an adult male stafford.

But I guess the OP is more interested in slamming everyone who wasn't sympathetic enough, than actually taking on board any advice from people who have been in the same situation as she is.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

that's the thing, we have no idea of what the poster means when they say "high prey" drive.

Well I do, and she is accurate when she says he has a high prey drive.

huski i am not trying to be difficult but the rest of us dont know and people's advice about this situation will tend to be conservative when it comes to rehoming high drive dogs and will err on the side of caution which i think is responsible.

the op went off because they didnt like what they heard which does not help at all.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Now, down to the nitty gritty. I believe someone accused me of "glossing over" the facts of Q's behaviour. So, would you all have liked me to tell you all in graphic detail what he did to his "prey"? Would you all have liked me to tell you in even more graphic detail how I collapsed into my husbands arms and COULD NOT SPEAK TO TELL HIM MY DOG HAD KILLED HIS CAT? Would you have liked me to tell you that I have been so torn up about what to do that I thought driving my car into a tree was a good option at the time? That I haven't been able to eat or sleep because I feel I failed my dog? I FAILED? Did it occur to anyone to ask any questions rather than assume?

I asked the question as to what circumstances the dog has killed in. I think it's relevant and important as you are considering rehoming him. I think we can pretty much assume how life ended for the cat at it wasn't nice.

I've got a high drive bitch that would kill a cat in an instant, so believe me I understand where you are coming from and what you are dealing with. I can't see how if you cannot manage him, that you think someone without the breed experience and the knowledge to manage a dog like that will cope.

Providing him with a cat free home, will only limit his ability to kill, by taking away the opportunities. The drive will still be there and I have concerns for any new owner, it only takes an open front door, the kids to make a mistake or a cat to go by in a public place and catch them unawares.

I don't think it's fair to place such responsibilites on any new family. They would need to be very aware of what's going on around them at all times and vigilant to the point of being paranoid when looking out for other animals. He may be fine in a one on one home, with no cats and a new owner who is willing to spend the time with a behaviourist, which I don't see as overkill, but the responsible thing to do.

If he were mine, I'd be keeping him in his own run/kennel, with a roof on it and making sure that all cats were locked in cattery or enclosure when he's out being exercised. You can still provide him with the exercise and stimulation that he needs. He will have his regular outings to obedience and agility. I personally could not pass that responsibilty onto someone else and would never forgive myself if he harmed another animal after rehoming. If you feel you cannot meet his needs, then considering euthanising him, rather than passing the problem onto someone else.

totally agree RSG

[huski]

I know you don't know JB which is why I am clarifying that the OP is correct in saying he has a high prey drive. I know all you have to go on is what is posted here.

[raineth]

sorry I can't remember who suggested it; but it was a great suggestion to see if he can find a place in the military. He would be in a cat-less situation (as much as any can be), handled by a very experienced person, and have a very stimulating life

[Quickasyoucan]

Calling people fanatics isn't very nice

But hey if being passionate about the reputation of bull breeds and seeing that they are in appropriate homes makes me a fanatic so be it.

My stafford x would chase unknown cats if he got a chance, tho he has happily temporarily spent time in a house with an ancient dominant cat and definitely was the underdog there. I think a lot of dogs with a reasonable level of drive would chase cats, not all but a lot, not all would kill them tho.

My boy has a good degree of prey drive, but towards mechanical items in that he used to try and chase skateboards. I perceived that as a problem early, since skateboards are usually ridden by humans. Nothing had actually happened, he has never actually hurt anyone. However, there was potential there for something to go wrong, ie he could have knocked a child off a skateboard in his desire to get to the wheels (which are the object of his desire), so it was my responsibility to get professional help, we consulted a behaviourist and it worked I didn't see that as overkill, I saw that as being a responsible owner.

We also got guidance on how to find a proper outlet for his drive. I like that he has drive, but I have learned how to use it for my own ends. ;)

I think people are just concerned, not fanatical, that this dog finds its way into a home that is capable of dealing with the level of drive the dog has.

Working people love dogs with drive, it is not necessarily a bad thign, just like a powerful car needs to be handled properly.

[Quickasyoucan]

sorry I can't remember who suggested it; but it was a great suggestion to see if he can find a place in the military. He would be in a cat-less situation (as much as any can be), handled by a very experienced person, and have a very stimulating life

The only thing that strikes me about that is I assume the military kennel their dogs and that is not usually a recommended thing with a stafford in that they like to be with their people. However, would depend on the individual dog I suppose.

This dog sounds like it does need a job though. Wonder if the mail sorting people at customs take anything other than the bog standard breeds?. I think I have seen one bull breedish dog on the tv before.

[Aussienot]

Just to clarify guys - I know this dog and he is a great highly rehomable dog who has stacks of potential in the right home. He just needs owners who understand and know how to manage a dog with a high prey drive.

I agree that in the right hands it sounds like Q could be a great performance dog. Not dissin' the dog. Or the owner.

But realistically, how many people do you think are out there who know how to manage a high prey drive dog in suburbia, and know how to train to deliver drive satisfaction? Or that small number, how many would have no other dogs, and no small pets? How many would have the motivation to invest the time and money it will take to work with a behaviourist to rehab him? How many would have really secure fences, and live in an area where Q is unlikely to have access to any other animals?

How re-homable is he in the real world? Since you know the dog.

I had a similar dog once. He was a full time job for a couple of years, and was probably the best dog I've ever owned. But I never considered him re-homable. Some dogs just aren't.

[poodlefan]

Calling people fanatics isn't very nice

Calling us twits and fools isn't either ;)

If the dog's behaviour has caused the OP sufficient grief that she wants to rehome him, how on earth can she possibly consider consulting a professional about his behaviour "overkill"?

Last time I checked a nipping Border Collie or a Newf that wanted to rescue the kids from the pool, didn't necessarily result in a traumatised owner that wanted to rehome the dog. Some difference eh?

[Remarkabull]

I have to agree with what most of the others are saying. I wouldn't rehome the dog unless it was to a very dog savvy home and the new owners were committed to addressing the problems had all the facts about what the dog has done.

I do understand what you are going through, I had a Bull Terrier bitch a few years ago that had a high prey drive. She killed a number of cats (mine and neighbours) and 2 pet birds (she escaped the yard, mangled the cage to get to them) although I wouldn't say she was DA but we had to be cautious around other dogs, particularly SWF that came at her at 100 mph yapping their heads off. She was the sweetest thing and loved people and kids but once my old Dobe was PTS she started to pick fights with my Amstaff X bitch and it got nasty on a couple of occasions. I think they were confused as to who was now the top dog (the male Dobe had been the boss and all was happy in the pack) and Sparky (BT) decided to challange for the role. Probably would have been fine if Jazz (Amstaff) had submitted but she is a stubborn, cranky bitch and although she can't fight to save her life she wouldn't back away from a challange.

Anyway, we considered re homing one of them, but Jazz is DA and I couldn't risk placing either of them into a home where the new owners didn't truly know the dogs like I did and I also worried that in Sparky's case they could be fooled that she was ok with cats and pocket pets after all because she would never try and hurt/kill them while there was someone there. She used to allow my cats to rub against her and would happily be inside with them and not bother them at all, but the second they were out in the yard and nobody was home they were dead.

I ended up having Sparky pts because although Jazz is DA and can be a bit of a cranky bitch, she is fine with our cats and also with our other dogs and my youngest child has a very special bond with her so we made a very difficult decision. To this day I feel bad and guilty and like I failed but there was no other option. One of them (or one of the other dogs) was going to end up badly injured or killed. It really sucked but I think I made the right decision.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i also wonder about what liability the old owner would have if the dog was rehomed and killed again whilst in the new owners care especially when it has a history of killing animals?

[raineth]

sorry I can't remember who suggested it; but it was a great suggestion to see if he can find a place in the military. He would be in a cat-less situation (as much as any can be), handled by a very experienced person, and have a very stimulating life

The only thing that strikes me about that is I assume the military kennel their dogs and that is not usually a recommended thing with a stafford in that they like to be with their people. However, would depend on the individual dog I suppose.

This dog sounds like it does need a job though. Wonder if the mail sorting people at customs take anything other than the bog standard breeds?. I think I have seen one bull breedish dog on the tv before.

Some of them go home with the handler some are kenneled. But don't forget they work a full shift with their handler everyday, which is more contact than most dogs would get. Even most people who work at home don't actually spend hours straight doing stuff with their dogs