New Problem To Address

[raz]

Joe Blow isn't giving us bad press. :confused

I didnt say he was. Now I'm confused

[Greytmate]

Joe Blow isn't giving us bad press. :confused

I didnt say he was. Now I'm confused

Just stick to the topic of addressing the bad press.

[raz]

Joe Blow isn't giving us bad press. :confused

I didnt say he was. Now I'm confused

Just stick to the topic of addressing the bad press.

What? I'm a puppy buyer and I'm addressing the issue of negativity against breeders.

[Kaz]

I think people are mixing two messages.

"Bad press" can be counteracted by listening to what the "bad press" is, and specifically answering those concerns. Not by blindly promoting the dogs as pets.

I agree.

Petition government bodies, work behind the scenes, do all those things that I am sure the MBDA is doing.

However I personally believe that the most effective tool is to work to actively work the media to your own ends. The general public ultimately decides what is or is not PC and the governing bodies and people with the power to make changes are generally swayed by public opinion.

Wouldn't it be great if we could find our own 'gardener' to create our own good press as well as simply counteracting bad press.

If the general public hears something often enough it will believe it whether it is true or not.

[Greytmate]

Joe Blow isn't giving us bad press. :confused

I didnt say he was. Now I'm confused

Just stick to the topic of addressing the bad press.

What? I'm a puppy buyer and I'm addressing the issue of negativity against breeders.

What press article/s specifically?

[Sheridan]

and that is exactly why ive sat on my hands for 30 years, no one wants to know or talk about it.

the dust is still under the carpet

Look I totally understand but I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of your everyday chap who just wants to buy a dog. All of that technical stuff, personality conflicts, dog world politics just goes whoosh. We just want a puppy and when we get a great puppy and a super cool breeder, we talk about it. We puppy owners promote you breeders. If you talk ad nauseum about all the other stuff, we glaze over.

I know that's pretty abrupt and I dont mean to be rude, but you guys need to use us (the puppy buyers) to be ambassadors for purebreeds, and the only way to do that is to be really lovely mentors - which I know you all are because my breeders have been super nice people that make me proud to be part of the purebreed world, but so often you hear the same stuff about breeders being snobs. We've all seen it. someone rocks up to a show because we all say - go to a show before you buy a dog - and they walk away dumbfounded because someone told them off for calling a 'girl' rather than a 'bitch'. (yes I actually watched that happening. It was pretty bloody disgraceful and the person involved went and bought a mongrel from a puppy farm as a result)

Raz, as you know, I've been saying for some time that I've seen show people be rude to enquirers at shows and have been screamed at for saying so. It's not just my experience. I have seen a breeder run down other breeders to enquirers because of stupid bloody breed politics. I've heard other breeders run down other breeders dogs because of this, that and the other. Happy puppy buyers are the best ambassadors, I agree, because we're often not bound up in those things.

Well, Steve, what do you want us to do?

I like this. Seems so much better than the pet expos.

[raz]

Raz, as you know, I've been saying for some time that I've seen show people be rude to enquirers at shows and have been screamed at for saying so. It's not just my experience. I have seen a breeder run down other breeders to enquirers because of stupid bloody breed politics. I've heard other breeders run down other breeders dogs because of this, that and the other. Happy puppy buyers are the best ambassadors, I agree, because we're often not bound up in those things.

I know I know and I've done it myself when someone raced up while I was in the marshal area. I felt really bad about it but I just didnt have the time or patience 2 minutes before taking my dog in the ring.

Happy puppy buyers - now how to keep your puppy buyers happy and keep them talking?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

and that is exactly why ive sat on my hands for 30 years, no one wants to know or talk about it.

the dust is still under the carpet

Look I totally understand but I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of your everyday chap who just wants to buy a dog. All of that technical stuff, personality conflicts, dog world politics just goes whoosh. We just want a puppy and when we get a great puppy and a super cool breeder, we talk about it. We puppy owners promote you breeders. If you talk ad nauseum about all the other stuff, we glaze over.

I know that's pretty abrupt and I dont mean to be rude, but you guys need to use us (the puppy buyers) to be ambassadors for purebreeds, and the only way to do that is to be really lovely mentors - which I know you all are because my breeders have been super nice people that make me proud to be part of the purebreed world, but so often you hear the same stuff about breeders being snobs. We've all seen it. someone rocks up to a show because we all say - go to a show before you buy a dog - and they walk away dumbfounded because someone told them off for calling a 'girl' rather than a 'bitch'. (yes I actually watched that happening. It was pretty bloody disgraceful and the person involved went and bought a mongrel from a puppy farm as a result)

Raz, as you know, I've been saying for some time that I've seen show people be rude to enquirers at shows and have been screamed at for saying so. It's not just my experience. I have seen a breeder run down other breeders to enquirers because of stupid bloody breed politics. I've heard other breeders run down other breeders dogs because of this, that and the other. Happy puppy buyers are the best ambassadors, I agree, because we're often not bound up in those things.

Well, Steve, what do you want us to do?

I like this. Seems so much better than the pet expos.

YES the idea in the link i like

[shortstep]

I think people are mixing two messages.

Yes, we want people to get the message that purebreed dogs are dogs that will meet their needs as pets. (rather than being showdogs or whatever)

That does nothing to address the question "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?"

"Bad press" can be counteracted by listening to what the "bad press" is, and specifically answering those concerns. Not by blindly promoting the dogs as pets.

For me, the main difficulty is to have everyone working for the same goal. It cannot be said that concerns about purebreed dogs are being addressed when many of the people breeding them will not admit there is a problem, or accept any scientific evidence put forward.

Which ever body that "we" is that is going to try to counteract the "bad press" may be have to be willing to compromise on some things, or make changes. Risk being really unpopular in some circles. And able to come up with sound plans to show a proactive approach to avoid future problems. There may be some truth in all the "bad press", to ignore it is dangerous.

As I said yesterday I am changing my stance and now support government regulated dog breeding as the solution to dog welfare issues.

This issue of stopping bad press will happen but later. Right now the bad press is needed to get the laws put in place which will drive the change everyone is wishing for. So we need to get on the same page, right now bad press, no pats on the back for dog breeders, demanding lifetime liability for every pup breed, are all good things that will help to bring in the laws to make changes needed.

After the laws are made, there will be a committee for each breed, primarily made up of those who are going to drive the changes through.

Extremes in structure will be one of many topics addressed. This will be managed by changing the standards and using breeding directives and measureable goals.

The breeders dogs (parents of the pending litter) will then be assessed as part of the EBV program and any deviation from the new standard or the measureable goals will be reflected in EBV for the litter and then in the cost of the mandatory pup insurance for inherited disease (for the life of the dog).

In a nut shell , the breeders that are still active and do not follow the directives to remove extreme structure from their pups will be given an insurance rate that is so high that they will not be able to afford to breed the litter. I understand a pup with a not favorable EBV could have an insurance rate of over $5000.00. Each pup in the litter would require this insurance prior to being sold. I also hear they may require bonds be put up prior to getting a breeding permit if the insurance required in high amounts. So that will end any breeding of dogs with extremes.

Maybe more time should be spent on understanding how all the changes everyone wants are going to be delivered once the laws go through. Maybe start with a review of the work in the Uk and then the 10 point plan.

Edited November 21, 2010 by shortstep

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

IMO when we are talking about bad press it is all negative comments about pure bred dogs and pure bred dog breeders. its not just what is in the media although that surely needs to be addressed.

so i see a multi pronged approach being needed:

- puppy buyers as ambassadors for good breeders

- a media/marketing campaign that highlights pure bred dogs

- a campaign where any negativity in the media is counteracted immediately

i am sure there are more but this is just off the top of my head

[asal]

Would be interested in that topic, Steve, as breeding physical extremes to the detriment of the health of a dog is my major issue with pure breds. Being a pet owner, not a breeder, I would be interested in hearing the opinions of breeders on this topic.

i know for example the apple dome so loved by chi breeders is certainly a lot bigger apple than ever on the original dogs and been increased over the decades along with the molera, and as a result a percentage of puppies never make it to even their first vaccinations. although in that case its never an issue for a puppy buyer because they simply dont survive. but i know id love it gone from the breed so i dont have to see a puppy born with no skull. no molera in the parents is first on my wish list. moderation in all, to me is good, muzzle not too short, dome medium not extreme. trouble is that makes u open to being branded as not breeding to show win and by default......get the drift

Hold that thought Asal - its important we look at that in the thread on these issues.

hey could you file it somewhere now?

i wont be forum checking again for a while as heaps to do. well i wont if i can switch this darned thing off and get cracking

[Sheridan]

Shortstep, can you tell me what you mean by lifetime liability?

[Greytmate]

I just keep going back and reading Steve's first post in this thread.

This one is a bit more difficult.

As we all know PDE really knocked us around,so did the gardener and a couple of others.

We are looking down the barrel of more laws being introduced with many pushing for us to do what was recommended and is now happening in the UK in line wit the recommendations from the Bateman report.

The big push is happening behind the scenes and will come where we are backed against the wall with an independent body telling us what we can and cannot breed and how and how not we are able to do it.

What can we do?

To just start a media campaign endorsed by a celebrity isn't the answer. However valuable the media is.

Recommendations from the "Bateman report?" Let's not hang around waiting for independent bodies to make laws out of that, while we sing the praises of purebreed dogs and parade around pet expos with puppies.

Let's be proactive, commission or collect our own scientific reports, get what we can out of the Bateman report, make a big plan, make the tough decisions, and package that into a positive message to the (powerful, scary?) audience that has the concerns that Steve started this topic about.

[asal]

IMO when we are talking about bad press it is all negative comments about pure bred dogs and pure bred dog breeders. its not just what is in the media although that surely needs to be addressed.

so i see a multi pronged approach being needed:

- puppy buyers as ambassadors for good breeders

- a media/marketing campaign that highlights pure bred dogs

[/b]- a campaign where any negativity in the media is counteracted immediately

i am sure there are more but this is just off the top of my head

that i suspect should be first priority dont you think?

[Steve]

Sheridan

I like that better than the pet expos too.

For now I need us to simply work through the natural progression of this thread and openly discuss the things we feel would be worth having a closer look at - we dont all have to agree and debate is healthy - just dont take to a personal level though I have to admit there was a bit there yesterday where my fingers were itching

Then Id like to pull some of you aside who feel you could contribute and you feel passionately about it and take you away to a private section of this forum where we can take it to the next level and really go to work on solutions without the side chatter distracting us.

Its important to run through this bit first because it sorts it a little before we get to having those working on it united in that one goal.

[TsarsMum]

im a puppy owner not a breeder.

I feel that (please dont shoot me) sometime for breeds that are fairly common the price of the pups are insane $1.5K and upwards. I went away from the breed i was looking at as I had one all ready he pass away at 8 they have alot of health problems and paying what they where asking i would not do it.

I also feel that some breeders dont have time and are rude to puppy buyers and that really really turned me off to the point i started looking at back yard breeders both of the above reasons why i started looking to back yard breeders.

I ended up finding a breeder who would spend all day talking about his dogs and the love he had and guess what............. thats where my pup come from. he answered all my questions. had time for me.

My brother and sister inlaw want a pupt and they are not prepard to pay that sort of money so i know where they will end up going I try but the $$ are to high in there opinion.

anyways im not sure this helps but i thought i would let you know what i seen and felt.

[raz]

Shortstep, can you tell me what you mean by lifetime liability?

Yeah I'd like the answer to this as well. I dont expect lifetime liability from a breeder.

[asal]

Shortstep, can you tell me what you mean by lifetime liability?

yes i am getting phone calls asking if a puppy comes with a lifetime health guarantee.

so

"demanding lifetime liability for every pup breed" is looking like the next step.

reality?

not where im standing.

as i asked one man. can you give your own children a lifetime health guarantee?????????????????????

bit rich asking it of a dog, or any other species breeder. reality check folks.

there aint a critter born with a use by date on the packaging.

maybe down the track its comming. but not in our lifetime, if man hasnt extincted himself first

my advice?

go buy from the mug who is offering the impossible before they discover they are not dealing with whitegoods yet!

am i going to continue breeding dogs?

no way, no how. im bailing out before the boat sinks completly.

[Steve]

I just keep going back and reading Steve's first post in this thread.

This one is a bit more difficult.

As we all know PDE really knocked us around,so did the gardener and a couple of others.

We are looking down the barrel of more laws being introduced with many pushing for us to do what was recommended and is now happening in the UK in line wit the recommendations from the Bateman report.

The big push is happening behind the scenes and will come where we are backed against the wall with an independent body telling us what we can and cannot breed and how and how not we are able to do it.

What can we do?

To just start a media campaign endorsed by a celebrity isn't the answer. However valuable the media is.

Recommendations from the "Bateman report?" Let's not hang around waiting for independent bodies to make laws out of that, while we sing the praises of purebreed dogs and parade around pet expos with puppies.

Let's be proactive, commission or collect our own scientific reports, get what we can out of the Bateman report, make a big plan, make the tough decisions, and package that into a positive message to the (powerful, scary?) audience that has the concerns that Steve started this topic about.

Yes I agree in the main with this except that I think this and what raz and Jaxxbuddy are saying needs to be incorporated into it all too.

And of course its not that easy when the scary within our own ranks are bigger liabilities than anti purebred factions.

[Sheridan]

im a puppy owner not a breeder.

I feel that (please dont shoot me) sometime for breeds that are fairly common the price of the pups are insane $1.5K and upwards. I went away from the breed i was looking at as I had one all ready he pass away at 8 they have alot of health problems and paying what they where asking i would not do it.

I also feel that some breeders dont have time and are rude to puppy buyers and that really really turned me off to the point i started looking at back yard breeders both of the above reasons why i started looking to back yard breeders.

I ended up finding a breeder who would spend all day talking about his dogs and the love he had and guess what............. thats where my pup come from. he answered all my questions. had time for me.

My brother and sister inlaw want a pupt and they are not prepard to pay that sort of money so i know where they will end up going I try but the $$ are to high in there opinion.

anyways im not sure this helps but i thought i would let you know what i seen and felt.

I know a breeder who got a couple of pups in a litter, which was great but they didn't recoup the cost of the approximate $8000+ that was spent on health testing hips, eyes, and the blood and urine screening and that was before any of the veterinary costs involved in actually having the pups. Ask yourself, what would you prefer? A breeder who is careful and does all those things or a BYB who does none of them? It's a matter of risk management and to me there is a greater risk in buying a dog from the BYB who doesn't do those things than the ethical breeder who does.