New Problem To Address

[Jed]

I am sorry, Jaxxs Buddy, I really don't have any idea what you are referring to. I am sorry if you perceived breeders as arrogant and sarcastic. It was certainly not intentional. I dont believe anyone thought pet owners were dim. It is a convoluted problem, and the information coming from one poster was misleading.

Recommended protocol was listed on that thread.

Mita, you know what I think, I've been saying it here, to the CCs, to councillors, to other breeders and pet owners ad nauseum for the past 8 or 10 years. I am tired of the "paranoid" label, and I am becoming boring, so I am bowing out of this thread now, as I have nothing constructive to add on how to reverse the tide, at this time. Good on you for believing in purebreds, and having the guts to say it

You're right about dacshunds - my registered standard lived in good health for 23 years.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Jed

[Crisovar]

Fact is, no one knows what causes SM, no one knows how to breed away from it, all people are doing is the best they can according to the recommended protocol, not breeding A to A because that's the way to the end, as the forum member well knows.

Yes. Exactly the same thing applies to many human conditions.

There's far, far less than 100% knowledge about nature, prevention & cure of all conditions in humans. So why has this expectation grown up that it's somehow negligent & irresponsible that conditions occur in dogs, to which there is no current easy answer??? Except winging it with protocols that do the best in the circumstances.

All the pedigree dogs exposed stuff, never addressed that.

That is one of the big questions Mita.

I for one am heartily sick of the expectation of a perfect product, one that can be produced assembly line faultlessly taking no heed of mother nature and her sense of humour, or any other outside factors after the pup leaves the breeder.

The general publics expectations go far beyond reasonable at times and I believe it is getting worse.

Good breeders are walking, not just good but some of the very best, because nothing they do is good enough for the critics.

When breeders are doing the very best they can and still get slammed you cannot blame them for walking away.

I had an owner ask me what I could have done to prevent her dog dying so early, the dog was 12 yo.

She is getting a mutt this time around because they are hardier. I had her dogs parents well into their teens.

A lab owner said very much the same to me last week at work when they were discussing possibly Euthing their very old lab, the poor bugger is in his teens and weighs nearly 40 kg, but labs all have bad joints they say. Their dog came from a very good kennel, are they happy with a dozen plus years of happy typical dog? No.

For every sad story of a buyer who has been hard done buy there is another tale of woe of a breeder who has copped the same through no fault of their own.

What is going to be good enough to satisfy these ever increasing demands? The mum and dad hobby breeders will soon be forced out due to the rising costs and demands of trying to breed the perfect product, they will walk. What will we be left with? Large commercial breeders who will be able to afford to keep up with the testing and the refunds and the facilites that will be demanded. But wait, we don't want them either.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

if we get back to the topic, i think pet owners would be more understanding of issues that arise if they knew breeders used all the modern tools at their disposal to ensure their new family pet had the best chance at a healthy life.

there are no guarantees but there is best practise and if breeders adhere to those then puppy buyers i believe would be more understanding.

[Crisovar]

if we get back to the topic, i think pet owners would be more understanding of issues that arise if they knew breeders used all the modern tools at their disposal to ensure their new family pet had the best chance at a healthy life.

there are no guarantees but there is best practise and if breeders adhere to those then puppy buyers i believe would be more understanding.

You have more faith than me then.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

if we get back to the topic, i think pet owners would be more understanding of issues that arise if they knew breeders used all the modern tools at their disposal to ensure their new family pet had the best chance at a healthy life.

there are no guarantees but there is best practise and if breeders adhere to those then puppy buyers i believe would be more understanding.

You have more faith than me then.

maybe not more faith but i have experienced some things being turned around in business by education, marketing, lobbying, development and cooperation

[Steve]

thats that then - everyone feeling better - Now can we go back to discussing possible solutions or does eveyone agree its all over for the purebred dog?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

thats that then - everyone feeling better - Now can we go back to discussing possible solutions or does eveyone agree its all over for the purebred dog?

it is far from over steve there is much that can be done

[Steve]

Whew - back to work then.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

so i still think education, marketing and strategy are required

i think we need to be more business like

Edited November 20, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[sas]

What a cop out.

Ok if you think so.

It makes no difference really, as you are going to get your wish and we will all see what happens.

Maybe you see a future of perfectly healthy giant danes, all breed by great breeders following the magic breeding proticals (which will be set up to do away with all problems attributed to breeding to standards, extremes, show and purity). I hope you are right.

People like you are not what the 'cause' needs.

You choose to misinterpret what you wish because you only see your own point of view.

I never said anything about perfectly healthy giant breeds - I'm not actually talking about my breed specifically I'm talking about all dogs.

We have problems across all breeds - problems that can be addressed and worked towards however if we keep patting breeders on the back and saying there there it's ok, we won't ask you to be accountable nothing will get better.

[sas]

thats that then - everyone feeling better - Now can we go back to discussing possible solutions or does eveyone agree its all over for the purebred dog?

Of course not, unless you're a Peta supporter.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

What a cop out.

Ok if you think so.

It makes no difference really, as you are going to get your wish and we will all see what happens.

Maybe you see a future of perfectly healthy giant danes, all breed by great breeders following the magic breeding proticals (which will be set up to do away with all problems attributed to breeding to standards, extremes, show and purity). I hope you are right.

People like you are not what the 'cause' needs.

You choose to misinterpret what you wish because you only see your own point of view.

I never said anything about perfectly healthy giant breeds - I'm not actually talking about my breed specifically I'm talking about all dogs.

We have problems across all breeds - problems that can be addressed and worked towards however if we keep patting breeders on the back and saying there there it's ok, we won't ask you to be accountable nothing will get better.

sas i agree, this "woe is me" attitude is not helping anything

[Greytmate]

What breeders need is a voice, a face.

A person out there in the media, oosing with charisma getting the word out there about pedigree dogs.

There's the Burke , Dr Harry and That Bondi dude.

But who is out there for the breeders?

Well that begs the question - why arent the breeders out there for the breeders. How long do they have to wait before they work out that their CCs are not going to do it for them and do something ?

I find this completely ironic. Not that long ago, there were a number of DOLers who wanted to do something for purebreds - promotions at shows, brochures, etc - and it died a death because the majority of breeders on this forum dismissed it as unnecessary.

yes i get quite confused as there are a few double standards/mixed messages from breeders

No.

I see no point in breeders being keen to see a hastily organised 'promotion' of purebreed dogs to go ahead when many good breeders cannot currently fill demand for their pups.

And it certainly wouldn't do anything positive to address this topic "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?"

A tent full of people at the Royal show shows self interest, it doesn't counteract bad press.

so i still think education, marketing and strategy are required

i think we need to be more business like

Yes.

But who is 'we'?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

What breeders need is a voice, a face.

A person out there in the media, oosing with charisma getting the word out there about pedigree dogs.

There's the Burke , Dr Harry and That Bondi dude.

But who is out there for the breeders?

Well that begs the question - why arent the breeders out there for the breeders. How long do they have to wait before they work out that their CCs are not going to do it for them and do something ?

I find this completely ironic. Not that long ago, there were a number of DOLers who wanted to do something for purebreds - promotions at shows, brochures, etc - and it died a death because the majority of breeders on this forum dismissed it as unnecessary.

yes i get quite confused as there are a few double standards/mixed messages from breeders

No.

I see no point in breeders being keen to see a hastily organised 'promotion' of purebreed dogs to go ahead when many good breeders cannot currently fill demand for their pups.

And it certainly wouldn't do anything positive to address this topic "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?"

A tent full of people at the Royal show shows self interest, it doesn't counteract bad press.

so i still think education, marketing and strategy are required

i think we need to be more business like

Yes.

But who is 'we'?

the we i am talking about are the key stakeholders, which includes but not limited to, breeders, peak bodies, pure bred pet owners

[Steve]

The we is always an issue.

Lots of people have lots to say but for various reasons not that many actually know how or for a variety of reason dont get to enacting anything. I have views on who should have already and Im disappointed that the politics of the dog world havent improved. Everyone blames everyone else,some are too frightened to stick their heads up, some dont know when to shut up and trying to get everyone working toward one goal whats best for the dogs and our breeds into the future without blowing each other up is still a huge challenge. There is a whole lot more I could say but now is not the time or place.

I dont believe there is any such thing as a problem without a solution - but first it needs an honest look at the problem breaking it down and actively looking for a solution.The solution changes and your ability to succeed is altered depending on the questions you ask. You can get bogged into the same old same old unless you take a different approach and view.

An honest assessment of this problem is that we have been served a pretty good dose of bad press which has placed us in a more vulnerable position than we would have been without it.

Because a major part of that bad press is about dogs who are CC registered and bred for the show ring the natural progression has been that those most affected by that would go into bat for the establishment and the dogs they register. They accept the breed standards, they have a code of conduct which pushes breeders toward breeding for the ring, they use their banner for dog shows, they register the litters, they have the numbers, they have the money and they have the reputation of being "experts" and the peek body in the dog world. As members the we was assumed to be us being organised and represented by the ANKC and various state Canine Associations. The we was assumed to be the very people who were being most critisised.

Well here's a news flash - If WE - you and me are going to have a chance at counteracting the bad press its time for the people who are interested in having a go

approached this with confidence that we have some great people breeding some fantastic dogs using science and resources to get each litter healthier and happier which are not suffering at our hands and which are making lots of families happy.

So if we can agree that we are flogging a dead horse if we expect the CCs to do anything and start to brainstorm things WE anyone who wants to give the MDBA a hand to try to work toward some strategies for counteracting bad press we would appreciate the input.

If you need a thread where you can lament the death of the purebred please start another thread because I dont have time or energy to play in a negative playground.

[raz]

Interesting thread. There are some really good comments in here and a couple of standouts from non breeders. I think that's probably where you need to take the lead, steve. Puppy buyers generally have an impession about breeders and it's not helped when the bla bla bla dog politics happens. There are more of us (puppy buyers) than you guys (breeders) and like it or not, the general perception is that registered breeders are just selling puppies for showing or breeding. All the passion behind what you guys do is lost on the average Joe Blow. They just want a dog.

[asal]

What breeders need is a voice, a face.

A person out there in the media, oosing with charisma getting the word out there about pedigree dogs.

There's the Burke , Dr Harry and That Bondi dude.

But who is out there for the breeders?

Well that begs the question - why arent the breeders out there for the breeders. How long do they have to wait before they work out that their CCs are not going to do it for them and do something ?

I find this completely ironic. Not that long ago, there were a number of DOLers who wanted to do something for purebreds - promotions at shows, brochures, etc - and it died a death because the majority of breeders on this forum dismissed it as unnecessary.

yes i get quite confused as there are a few double standards/mixed messages from breeders

No.

I see no point in breeders being keen to see a hastily organised 'promotion' of purebreed dogs to go ahead when many good breeders cannot currently fill demand for their pups.

And it certainly wouldn't do anything positive to address this topic "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?"

A tent full of people at the Royal show shows self interest, it doesn't counteract bad press.

so i still think education, marketing and strategy are required

i think we need to be more business like

Yes.

But who is 'we'?

trouble is. every breeder who self grooms emself thinking they are the "ethical" ones dont think they need to do a thing.

the world knows they are ethical, they know they are ethical.

its only the riff raff puppy farmers giving breeders a bad name, so why should you get out of your comfort zone and work on good press?

bit of shame soo and i mean VERY few realise pillary one and you pillary all. far as joe public knows if you breed dogs your a puppy farmer.

and so the press is out there and its the bad stuff, and its being passed on by the very people who should be realising the ones they want destroyed are a MINORITY yet they are spreading the paint and its sticking to all.

yes there does need to be good PR done. but knowing how the papers like to get a good story and the truth isnt on the radar. i well remember Wynn Eason working her heart out for publicity for the Cavy Club and pedigree Cavies, (guinea pigs for you not in the lingo know) they had a field day poking fun at her and conning her into putting em into custumes , flower pots and all manner of stuipid poses, but Wyn gladly put up with the snide cracks and implied lunacy on the grounds that any publicity for the fancy Cavies is good publicity.

how many have her fortitude is the problem.

i know one name springs to mind if he were ever interested, and thats Dr Harry's brother, now that guy is a wag. met him years ago and he had me in stitches. yep hes the hansome one, he told me so, so i can take it on good account cant I?

Edited November 20, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

Im thinking getting a breeder up in lights when they send a puppy home to someone who has already got one of their dogs. Allow the owner to talk about how great the first dog was and how fantastic the breeder has been.

Forget about promoting the breeds promote the people who are our pet buyers and let them just tell honest feedback of how happy they were to find a good breeder and great dog. That kind of thing.

Because show breeders put so much work into getting a championship naturally they are proud of that and for them this is what they need to promote and tell pet buyers about but unless they want a show puppy or one to breed show puppies people who are wanting a puppy they dont care. Breeders need to be able to say they are breeding to a standard which is good enough to get them ribbons but more they need to say they are breeding great pets ,great working dogs etc.

Yesterday I spoke to girl who wanted to take a Maremma baby as a pet and I took 1 hour and 53 minutes out to tell her about the breed and what she can expect from the breed as a pet. I told her of the need for good fencing and used the dog I placed as a pet which guards the whole street ,of the working dog owner who purchased the dog to guard chickens who got upset because when the chicken crossed the road the dog went with them. I spoke about why I have a double gate - to stop my pet Maremma from going out ahead of the car to clear the paddock. I spoke of how pepper goes out ahead of me when I hang the washing out and yells at the world in case there's a brown snake or something else between me and the clothes line. I explained about how I need to control my voice and my body language to stop them barking ,I told her of the pet family I sent one home to where every one was very happy in a highly built up area but when they moved to a house with a wire back fence with horses on the other side the dog drove everyone nuts and what we did together - pet owner and breeder to get the thing to shut up. I explained about how they work with sheep and kids and kittens adjusting their body language. I told her how they watched and learned the routines of the household and how they accept what is the norm - what she would have to do to ensure it was O.K. with strangers and what to expect when walking with it. I told her how much I loved them and why I think the species they are working with is bonded to them rather than them bonded to the animal because of how I feel about them. I spoke of how one of my girls which has been in the paddock with the sheep since she was 6 weeks old comes into my home to have her puppies and I cant see any difference with her and the one that lives in the house full time. I spoke of how they care for the beagles and gave instances of keeping them safe. I listened to her discription of her home and her lifestyle and advised her on where the issues may be and what she would need to do to live happily ever after with a Maremma as a pet. Then I laughed and said I was the worst person to speak to about the breed because Im biased and I love them,that I cant imagine life without them - but Id already told her the down side of the breed ,what would happen if she stuck it out in the back yard alone ,what would happen if she didnt allow it to sleep inside of an evening and how they bark to ward off predators with my stories and examples. I did mention the champions and how one of our goals was to breed dog which looked the part as well as being a healthy well tempermented animal the health issues of the breed and what we have done to try to prevent them - and I did say that in 17 years we have had only one report of a possible genetic issue and what we did to try to ensure we never saw it again.I told her what it would take to try to train them I told her when my next litter was due, that I dont take a waiting list until the last week of the pregnancy and advised her to speak with other breeders and to think hard on whether she thought living with an adult was going to be a good thing for her. I told her if she found a puppy else where what to look for and no matter where she bought her pup that she was welcome to came back to me for help or advice. I have no puppies , I didnt get her name and I just may have talked her out of getting the breed. I could hear her relaxing and really enjoying the experience of speaking with me and its that feeling we need to market. I think.

[Steve]

What breeders need is a voice, a face.

A person out there in the media, oosing with charisma getting the word out there about pedigree dogs.

There's the Burke , Dr Harry and That Bondi dude.

But who is out there for the breeders?

Well that begs the question - why arent the breeders out there for the breeders. How long do they have to wait before they work out that their CCs are not going to do it for them and do something ?

I find this completely ironic. Not that long ago, there were a number of DOLers who wanted to do something for purebreds - promotions at shows, brochures, etc - and it died a death because the majority of breeders on this forum dismissed it as unnecessary.

yes i get quite confused as there are a few double standards/mixed messages from breeders

No.

I see no point in breeders being keen to see a hastily organised 'promotion' of purebreed dogs to go ahead when many good breeders cannot currently fill demand for their pups.

And it certainly wouldn't do anything positive to address this topic "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?"

A tent full of people at the Royal show shows self interest, it doesn't counteract bad press.

so i still think education, marketing and strategy are required

i think we need to be more business like

Yes.

But who is 'we'?

trouble is. every breeder who self grooms emself thinking they are the "ethical" ones dont think they need to do a thing.

the world knows they are ethical, they know they are ethical.

its only the riff raff puppy farmers giving breeders a bad name, so why should you get out of your comfort zone and work on good press?

bit of shame soo and i mean VERY few realise pillary one and you pillary all. far as joe public knows if you breed dogs your a puppy farmer.

and so the press is out there and its the bad stuff, and its being passed on by the very people who should be realising the ones they want destroyed are a MINORITY yet they are spreading the paint and its sticking to all.

yes there does need to be good PR done. but knowing how the papers like to get a good story and the truth isnt on the radar. i well remember Wynn Eason working her heart out for publicity for the Cavy Club and pedigree Cavies, (guinea pigs for you not in the lingo know) they had a field day poking fun at her and conning her into putting em into custumes , flower pots and all manner of stuipid poses, but Wyn gladly put up with the snide cracks and implied lunacy on the grounds that any publicity for the fancy Cavies is good publicity.

how many have her fortitude is the problem.

i know one name springs to mind if he were ever interested, and thats Dr Harry's brother, now that guy is a wag. met him years ago and he had me in stitches. yep hes the hansome one, he told me so, so i can take it on good account cant I?

I dont believe that the pet buying public think everyone who breeds puppies is a puppy farmer - some do but people who come to me to buy puppies on the whole

are much less likely to be concerned about that than would be expected from what is said on this forum. People who want one of mine are on the whole pretty smart people.

[raz]

I could hear her relaxing and really enjoying the experience of speaking with me and its that feeling we need to market. I think.

I think you're right on the money.

eta if you think about the average Joe who wants to buy a pup, they dont care about the standard - they just want to hear about the little fluffball who has a good temperament, a nice set of pearly whites, four legs and a tail.

Edited November 20, 2010 by raz