New Problem To Address

[raz]

How do we make places like DOL friendlier?

Friendlier as in user friendly? If I'm a member of the public wanting to buy a dog, if I type in for example, pug puppies Australia, the first thing that comes up is the pug breeder page on the main site and the person is then free to roam the profiles. Not everyone who wants to buy a puppy will dive into the forum which is a bit of a daunting place at times - they just want to start sussing out where they can get details for a breeder and the main site is very user friendly for that purpose.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Well that all gives a great answer to the designer dog breeders claim that their dogs are healthier...We can tell them there is a good chance dogs used to breed designer dogs were sold as pets because they were deemed unsuitable for breeding,and therefore the chances of hereditary defects could well be much higher than in dogs obtained from a registered breeder.

I think promoting the reliability of type in pedigree dogs that have been bred some times for centuries with a specific purpose in mind,along with the goal for breeders of constant improvement are your 2 key points.

How do we make places like DOL friendlier? If that could be done it would do pedigree breeders their bigest favour, it can be a great site for any one with an interest in dogs,but they are getting shot down before they can see the benefits.

MM i have been wondering about this as well. just off the top of my head (and it might not be a good idea) but what if new people to the forum could only access a few areas and some more experienced dolers could be there to educate them. then they would learn without the trial by fire.

i have to say though, some new people are their own worst enemy because they come in all guns blazing without any respect for the forum or the members here

[asal]

Well that all gives a great answer to the designer dog breeders claim that their dogs are healthier...We can tell them there is a good chance dogs used to breed designer dogs were sold as pets because they were deemed unsuitable for breeding,and therefore the chances of hereditary defects could well be much higher than in dogs obtained from a registered breeder.

I think promoting the reliability of type in pedigree dogs that have been bred some times for centuries with a specific purpose in mind,along with the goal for breeders of constant improvement are your 2 key points.

How do we make places like DOL friendlier? If that could be done it would do pedigree breeders their bigest favour, it can be a great site for any one with an interest in dogs,but they are getting shot down before they can see the benefits.

MM i have been wondering about this as well. just off the top of my head (and it might not be a good idea) but what if new people to the forum could only access a few areas and some more experienced dolers could be there to educate them. then they would learn without the trial by fire.

i have to say though, some new people are their own worst enemy because they come in all guns blazing without any respect for the forum or the members here

lol so well put and so right.

umm ive seen entire fullazades (ok lousy spelling) fired point blank at the fool who asks where to get a main register pup. if they dont die from the shock of the first impact most end up with their tails between their legs.

not too much friendly chatter, usualy WHAT U WANT TO PUPPY FARM?

SERVE YOUR APPRENTICESHIP OR GET OUT!

n the ruffled feather brigade go off for a soothing coffee or cuppa.

Edited November 22, 2010 by asal

[sparkycat]

Well said, Gayle.

I'd also like to see the friendly website promoting purebreds. We all love DOL but the main site isn't user friendly for the person looking for a dog. Most of it is about showing (not that there's anything wrong with that but as Raz said, people are just looking for a family friendly dog). Information about breeds shouldn't be about the standard. It should be about what makes a purebred a great pet.

Crap, the vast majority of our puppy buyers have found us via the Dogz site.

Find your breed and away you go. The search function is basic and narrows down the states for you, if you'd like.

There is some basic breed information on there relating to temperament, grooming and health.

I disagree ReadySetGo as someone else pointed out the front page of DOL is all about show results and perfect dogs in show stacks. There aren't any happy silly photos of dogs just being dogs with their families.

It almost put me off when I started looking for a pedigree dog -I was almost scared to contact breeders for "just a pet" - luckily the first breeder I contacted was lovely -didn't mention shows at all and was really helpful so I of course I got my pedigree pet dog from her.

But there is a vocal minority of breeders that do push the "show" part of pedigree dogs and it is very off putting to the "pet" buyer.

[Natsu chan]

I do think we really need to push the whole purebreds are more than show dogs thing....I wonder if it would be too much trouble for Troy (or if he would even be interested given it's more work) to have a little pedigree pet of the month or something on the front page? A nice photo of the dog and a little blurb like they do in the Sunday Sun?

I think we really need to be pushing the whole thing about breed health schemes, the GSD clubs have been doing this since the early 80's and even on their own website it's hard to see any info on it. Shouldn't we be shouting this from the roof tops? Surely it's a good thing not something to hide, how many BYBers or puppy farmers do the amount of health testing ANKC breeders do, realistically?

[poodlefan]

I think there's heaps that can be done to communicate to the public why buying a carefully bred pup that you can be reasonably confident about in terms of its adult attributes is a fine idea.

Frankly I think most folk would get that idea pretty easily. The big issues for me are:

* convincing dyed in the wool show folk that "pet" is NOT a dirty word. Most dogs are pets. Even show dogs are pets most of the time. Breeding "pets" that just happen to be well put together, good examples of their breed shouldn't be sneered at. The trick is to convince all involved that showing and pets aren't incompatible experiences. Imagine the impact of a Best in Show story from a royal that actually shows that the dog has a pet name, a character and lives a good life. Most seem to focus on the day - more could be done to show the dog as a balanced individual.

* dealing with the misinformation from the likes of the gardener and the puppy farm advocates. Facts will do that.

* helping breeders and buyers find the middle ground and educating each side about the expectations of the other. "how to buy a dog" is one thing. "how to responsibly sell pups" can be taught too.

* educating both sides about what it means to be a responsible breeder and why you'd want to buy from one.

The dogs are still the best advertisements for their breeds we've got but events like Pet Expos seem to have dropped off. Maybe some shows need to be held at locations were its convenient for the public to see them.

If you have a working group for this one Steve, I'd love to volunteer.

Edited November 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[Greytmate]

I don't have time to post much today, but there is a lot I want to say, some great ideas have been put forward.

There is a reason for the decline of Pet Expos, and they were under utilised as a marketing tool anyway.

But there are still a few things that need to be addressed before there is any point in doing more promotions.

Seriously if people are wanting to put so much effort into promotion, there needs to be specific goals, strategy and planning to ensure it hits the target.

For whole time I have been on DOL many people have been promoting purebreed dogs in the best way they know how. But 'our' market is still buying plenty of designer dogs in droves. Instead of buying the purebreed dogs that would suit them much better.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I don't have time to post much today, but there is a lot I want to say, some great ideas have been put forward.

There is a reason for the decline of Pet Expos, and they were under utilised as a marketing tool anyway.

But there are still a few things that need to be addressed before there is any point in doing more promotions.

Seriously if people are wanting to put so much effort into promotion, there needs to be specific goals, strategy and planning to ensure it hits the target.

For whole time I have been on DOL many people have been promoting purebreed dogs in the best way they know how. But 'our' market is still buying plenty of designer dogs in droves. Instead of buying the purebreed dogs that would suit them much better.

totally agree with the bolded bit in particular otherwise it is a waste of time and money

Edited November 22, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[sllebasi]

We still have quite a few family neighbourhood days run by the council, they have info relatating to the local area, like an education/schools/daycare table, and then a cyclone/disaster management table, a movie night, portable skate park, basketball games, pool parties, and then they have food, entertainment, the local library and quite often the canine clubs will go and do working dog/agility shows, so they are still around

[moosmum]

Well that all gives a great answer to the designer dog breeders claim that their dogs are healthier...We can tell them there is a good chance dogs used to breed designer dogs were sold as pets because they were deemed unsuitable for breeding,and therefore the chances of hereditary defects could well be much higher than in dogs obtained from a registered breeder.

I think promoting the reliability of type in pedigree dogs that have been bred some times for centuries with a specific purpose in mind,along with the goal for breeders of constant improvement are your 2 key points.

How do we make places like DOL friendlier? If that could be done it would do pedigree breeders their bigest favour, it can be a great site for any one with an interest in dogs,but they are getting shot down before they can see the benefits.

MM i have been wondering about this as well. just off the top of my head (and it might not be a good idea) but what if new people to the forum could only access a few areas and some more experienced dolers could be there to educate them. then they would learn without the trial by fire.

i have to say though, some new people are their own worst enemy because they come in all guns blazing without any respect for the forum or the members here

Thats not a bad idea.

But rather than restrict access,maybe "recomend" they try the newbie area 1st if while they get a feel for the site,to avoid getting shot down.That way they wont feel they are on trial.

Lots will still fall by the wayside,'cos Raz is right too,we get some who surely do ask for it!

[RuralPug]

Well that all gives a great answer to the designer dog breeders claim that their dogs are healthier...We can tell them there is a good chance dogs used to breed designer dogs were sold as pets because they were deemed unsuitable for breeding,and therefore the chances of hereditary defects could well be much higher than in dogs obtained from a registered breeder.

I think promoting the reliability of type in pedigree dogs that have been bred some times for centuries with a specific purpose in mind,along with the goal for breeders of constant improvement are your 2 key points.

How do we make places like DOL friendlier? If that could be done it would do pedigree breeders their bigest favour, it can be a great site for any one with an interest in dogs,but they are getting shot down before they can see the benefits.

MM i have been wondering about this as well. just off the top of my head (and it might not be a good idea) but what if new people to the forum could only access a few areas and some more experienced dolers could be there to educate them. then they would learn without the trial by fire.

i have to say though, some new people are their own worst enemy because they come in all guns blazing without any respect for the forum or the members here

Thats not a bad idea.

But rather than restrict access,maybe "recomend" they try the newbie area 1st if while they get a feel for the site,to avoid getting shot down.That way they wont feel they are on trial.

Lots will still fall by the wayside,'cos Raz is right too,we get some who surely do ask for it!

I am a member of a car marque board, which has instituted a "Noobs Playground" forum for "newbies" or new people to ask all the questions which drive the old hands batty because it means they haven't done a search or read any sticky posts so ask the same old questions.

Only old hands with patience and gentleness go into the Noobs Playground. Those new people who ignore all the large prominent sign posts to the Noobs Playground and post stupid questions in the general forums get spit-roasted, drawn and quartered mercilessly - and you thought DOL could be tough on idjits and suspected trolls - whew!!

[MalteseLuna]

Wish I had of known you were a genetics major I tried really hard to put that post in simple terms :D . I may just call on you soon to suck up a bit of info.

We have had a survey running now for over 12 months on diagnosed health issues and we included every breed ,cross bred as well as mixed breed dogs. The numbers for mixed breed answers are way higher than any one breed.

They [mixed breed] pretty well have everything known represented and cross breed have a huge incidence of allergies. PL and HD some have PRA [ unexpected as its a recessive] couple of others in there as well and from memory - last time I looked 2 have been diagnosed with SM.- one was a malt cross cav.

I think you did a good job of explaining! Happy to talk about genetics anytime.

I remember the survey - excited to see the results!

I'm not surprised at incidences of PRA in mixed/cross breeds - if 2 breeds with PRA are mixed together they are just as likely to pass PRA on to offspring (and most crossbreeders don't test so they are doubly likely to breed carrier to carrier etc).

I think there's heaps that can be done to communicate to the public why buying a carefully bred pup that you can be reasonably confident about in terms of its adult attributes is a fine idea.

Frankly I think most folk would get that idea pretty easily. The big issues for me are:

* convincing dyed in the wool show folk that "pet" is NOT a dirty word. Most dogs are pets. Even show dogs are pets most of the time. Breeding "pets" that just happen to be well put together, good examples of their breed shouldn't be sneered at. The trick is to convince all involved that showing and pets aren't incompatible experiences. Imagine the impact of a Best in Show story from a royal that actually shows that the dog has a pet name, a character and lives a good life. Most seem to focus on the day - more could be done to show the dog as a balanced individual.

* dealing with the misinformation from the likes of the gardener and the puppy farm advocates. Facts will do that.

* helping breeders and buyers find the middle ground and educating each side about the expectations of the other. "how to buy a dog" is one thing. "how to responsibly sell pups" can be taught too.

* educating both sides about what it means to be a responsible breeder and why you'd want to buy from one.

The dogs are still the best advertisements for their breeds we've got but events like Pet Expos seem to have dropped off. Maybe some shows need to be held at locations were its convenient for the public to see them.

If you have a working group for this one Steve, I'd love to volunteer.

What she said Happy to join a working group on this too!

[Max#1]

I have been following these threads with interest. And while I'm late to post a reply, I hope it still helps.

My experience is of buying pet dogs from pet shops. Why? I thought breeders were only for showdogs. Now, of course, I know better.

I also have a scientific background, though not a genetics major, and I stumbled across this on the dogzonline home page (when you click on 'why buy a purebred dog')

Hybrid Vigour

A lot of the hype with Designer dogs is due to the mistaken belief that they are healthier than the pedigree pure bred dog due to so-called 'Hybrid Vigour'.

Hybrid vigour can only occur when both parents are clear from genetic problems. Their breed does not matter. It is the genetic make up of the parents that counts! The only way to be sure is to ask the breeder if they have tested for known problems.

This is a point, I think. My experience of purebred dogs so far (now I'm paying attention) seems to indicate there are problems with the genetic variation in some breeds in Australia. Saying that 'hybrid vigour can only occur when both parents are clear from genetic problems' is incorrect. Hybrid vigour is usually only used to describe offspring that have been proven to be superior to its parents. In any case, there will be some genetic benefit from crossing distantly related dogs, but this advantage, I'm assuming, will be vastly outweighed by knowing that the parents are clear of certain inheritable diseases.

My point is - another issue to address might be the reputation that purebred dogs are more likely to be 'inbred'.

And maybe that sentence on the webpage can be changed? Something like, 'any hybrid vigour seen from crossing two different breeds is outweighed by the advantages of knowing that the parents of your puppy are not carrying known heritable diseases'. Or something like that.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Max#1

[Staranais]

And maybe that sentence on the webpage can be changed? Something like, 'any hybrid vigour seen from crossing two different breeds is outweighed by the advantages of knowing that the parents of your puppy are not carrying known heritable diseases'. Or something like that.

If you're using it in the same sense as is used in livestock breeding, hybrid vigour is technically when the average value of the offspring for a particular trait is "better" than the average of the two parent breeds for that trait. e.g., if a Friesian cow makes 12L of milk on average per day, and a Jersey makes 10L, a FxJ cross can be said to show hybrid vigour if it makes more than 11L.