Judy Gard - All Done

[mita]

Mita- yup. I don't think it's actualy a legal legislation personally. How does one put in a formal challenge to a law?!

Here you go, SP. Victorian Law Reform Commission has a form that individuals or groups can fill in, re their concerns with a particular law.

https://submit.justice.vic.gov.au/CA2569180...uggest?OpenForm

Ah yes I did know about this- my brain is on holidays at the moment lol.

Thanks for the link ! It's worth a shot.....

Sure is, SP. Actually, the questions they ask you to speak to, are very sensible in ferreting out exactly what problem you've encountered with a law in its current form.

[OSoSwift]

I would be happy to be a WA address for anyone who needs it, I am good at re-addressing and sending on, I do it all the time for the inlaws when travelling

[D & D]

Warning : Potential Stupid Question Alert !!!

Are there advantages to a (for example) NSW CC Membership by comparison to a (for example) Queensland CC Membership?

In other words, if one was going to move State for the sake of better CC representation, where would be the best?

A bit late answering, but I agree with Pappy

DogsNT could use the extra numbers, and we have lovely committee members

[asal]

Not sure if its true or not but I was told yesterday 3 directors of Dogs NSW had dun a bunk plus Ms Davies.

Last time I looked one was under the microscope by Asic too.

yep,

cant reveal my source but seems it was linked to the poxy and special meeting to turf someone mentioned in previous posts fiasco. within hours of losing the shove to eliminate the director failing , the resignations arrived. who thinks is just coincidence? not this liddle black duck

i remember when mrs furber won her case there were some runners then too.

aint politics interesting, be it state, federal and now we discover our own dear canine registeries?

Edited November 20, 2010 by asal

[asal]

Am I understanding this thread correctly? Someone had their dogs removed (seized) because they'd been de-barked? Even though the dogs were well cared for?

Please correct me. That doesn't make sense to me. What would be the point of seizing these dogs?

Or perhaps I have completely misunderstood what this is about.

the point being, age box? ticked. shows dogs. ticked. attack mode activated.

no they arent out the eliminate show breeders?

course not

n of course if they had been debarked in vic, she would still be happy and maybe her rehomed one still alive. have my doubts about how much they like dogs that vet who launced the attack

[asal]

This seems like discrimination to me. Same offence, but non-showdogs walking around don't attract a 2nd offence.

However, showdogs walking around a showring, do.

Discrimination is pretty rife throughout our various Victorian dog laws.

Eg.

Dog #1 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. Ka Ching! $240.00 Fine to that dog owner, thank you very much.

Dog #2 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. But has been shown at Dogs Victoria Sanctioned event in last 12 months. That's ok then. No fine to that dog owner.

Off Topic I know (sorry Steve) but it reveals even more of the stupidity, futility and discrimination created by our ill thought out laws. And this one did NOT go through without mention. There were objections. But the Labor Govt pushed it through regardless. And ashamedly, the Liberal/National Parties asserted the laws were flawed but in the same breath and sentence announced to Parliament they would not oppose them.

So we have a Government creating stupid, cruddy and faulty laws and we have a Coalition knowing they are stupid, cruddy and faulty laws but giving them a green light anyway. God help us .

probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

Edited November 20, 2010 by asal

[raz]

probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

Oh for goodness sake. How to wreck a thread - just throw genocide into the discussion. FFS

[tdierikx]

I do say this with all respect asal...

Put a gag in it will you!

T.

[asal]

someone else made the comparison in a thread, forget which one about little by little before anyone realised democracy was gone.

in the case of the rspca, theres precious little democracy, until and unless the petition gets going and succes in the accountability drive, we cant wait and hope for the politicans to figure it out for themselves.

they are the cretins that made judys nightmare possible and then reality.

surely they are elected to use their brains not take orders from the rspca or explore what it actually means in regard to potential victums like judy? surely.

why should a dog born n debarked in vic can be shown no problem yet done elsewhere is a crimal offence? didnt the dual rail system debacle lesson get learned after all?

Edited November 20, 2010 by asal

[Sheridan]

probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

Oh for goodness sake. How to wreck a thread - just throw genocide into the discussion. FFS

Someone had to Godwin at some stage.

[mita]

someone else made the comparison in a thread, forget which one about little by little before anyone realised democracy was gone.

in the case of the rspca, theres precious little democracy, until and unless the petition gets going and succes in the accountability drive, we cant wait and hope for the politicans to figure it out for themselves.

they are the cretins that made judys nightmare possible and then reality.

surely they are elected to use their brains not take orders from the rspca or explore what it actually means in regard to potential victums like judy? surely.

why should a dog born n debarked in vic can be shown no problem yet done elsewhere is a crimal offence? didnt the dual rail system debacle lesson get learned after all?

A little less hysteria & a bit more education. We have a legal system with checks & balances. Go back a few posts & see that Victoria has a Law Reform Commission (as do other states). Individuals & groups can bring to their attention, problems they perceive/experience as a result of laws in their current form.

Stating ad nauseum... the letter of the current Victorian law, re debarking, was followed in JG's case. The RSPCA followed each letter of the law. Which that law requires them to do. (There's no wriggle room written into it, of first priority in intervention being an educative role ...as the much later Qld law allows.)

First thing I did, was to go read that Victorian law. And found that was so. Right down to the fact that animals don't have to be distressed or disabled to be seized under the Victorian law. They are described among 'things' that can be taken away for evidence.

So there was collective horror to many dog people (including me) in how all this letter of the law actually plays out in reality.

A poorly worded law that lumps debarking & tail-docking in together....prohibited. And proceeds to apply the same penalty, in that there's a 2nd offence if the dogs are purebreds which are shown.

Totally overlooking the fact that a docked-tail has consequence for conformation when exhibited in the show-ring. But a pitch-lowered (debarked) dog has no consequence for the showring... unless it's expected to sing opera at a volume rate to fill the Myer Music Bowl.

And totally missing the point that it's restricted procedures they're dealing with....even tho'. elsewhere. the law indicates the circumstances, processes & procedures under which they can be done. Left hand not realising what the right hand is writing, and confusing people in the process.

Edited November 21, 2010 by mita

[Crysti_Lei]

This seems like discrimination to me. Same offence, but non-showdogs walking around don't attract a 2nd offence.

However, showdogs walking around a showring, do.

Discrimination is pretty rife throughout our various Victorian dog laws.

Eg.

Dog #1 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. Ka Ching! $240.00 Fine to that dog owner, thank you very much.

Dog #2 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. But has been shown at Dogs Victoria Sanctioned event in last 12 months. That's ok then. No fine to that dog owner.

Off Topic I know (sorry Steve) but it reveals even more of the stupidity, futility and discrimination created by our ill thought out laws. And this one did NOT go through without mention. There were objections. But the Labor Govt pushed it through regardless. And ashamedly, the Liberal/National Parties asserted the laws were flawed but in the same breath and sentence announced to Parliament they would not oppose them.

So we have a Government creating stupid, cruddy and faulty laws and we have a Coalition knowing they are stupid, cruddy and faulty laws but giving them a green light anyway. God help us .

probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

[raz]

probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

Oh for goodness sake. How to wreck a thread - just throw genocide into the discussion. FFS

Someone had to Godwin at some stage.

yes!

[asal]

someone else made the comparison in a thread, forget which one about little by little before anyone realised democracy was gone.

in the case of the rspca, theres precious little democracy, until and unless the petition gets going and succes in the accountability drive, we cant wait and hope for the politicans to figure it out for themselves.

they are the cretins that made judys nightmare possible and then reality.

surely they are elected to use their brains not take orders from the rspca or explore what it actually means in regard to potential victums like judy? surely.

why should a dog born n debarked in vic can be shown no problem yet done elsewhere is a crimal offence? didnt the dual rail system debacle lesson get learned after all?

A little less hysteria & a bit more education. We have a legal system with checks & balances. Go back a few posts & see that Victoria has a Law Reform Commission (as do other states). Individuals & groups can bring to their attention, problems they perceive/experience as a result of laws in their current form.

Stating ad nauseum... the letter of the current Victorian law, re debarking, was followed in JG's case. The RSPCA followed each letter of the law. Which that law requires them to do. (There's no wriggle room written into it, of first priority in intervention being an educative role ...as the much later Qld law allows.)

First thing I did, was to go read that Victorian law. And found that was so. Right down to the fact that animals don't have to be distressed or disabled to be seized under the Victorian law. They are described among 'things' that can be taken away for evidence.

So there was collective horror to many dog people (including me) in how all this letter of the law actually plays out in reality.

A poorly worded law that lumps debarking & tail-docking in together....prohibited. And proceeds to apply the same penalty, in that there's a 2nd offence if the dogs are purebreds which are shown.

Totally overlooking the fact that a docked-tail has consequence for conformation when exhibited in the show-ring. But a pitch-lowered (debarked) dog has no consequence for the showring... unless it's expected to sing opera at a volume rate to fill the Myer Music Bowl.

And totally missing the point that it's restricted procedures they're dealing with....even tho'. elsewhere. the law indicates the circumstances, processes & procedures under which they can be done. Left hand not realising what the right hand is writing, and confusing people in the process.

thanks for going to the trouble to do such a easy to understand explaination.

soo i didnt realise it was the letter of the law to film everything in any case now that an inspector has been sent to check on.

that will certainly add to costs and didnt some one say every word judy uttered was also recorded?

[mita]

soo i didnt realise it was the letter of the law to film everything in any case now that an inspector has been sent to check on.

that will certainly add to costs and didnt some one say every word judy uttered was also recorded?

Seems audio & video records of law enforcement are commonplace these days.

We talked about that when the JG case first came up.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Well I gave Judy lots of hugs from everyone on Saturday and she was pleased.

Judy states that she is feeling 200% better and can now just get on with her life and love of Tibbies.

EFTypos.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Bilbo Baggins

[Steve]

soo i didnt realise it was the letter of the law to film everything in any case now that an inspector has been sent to check on.

that will certainly add to costs and didnt some one say every word judy uttered was also recorded?

Seems audio & video records of law enforcement are commonplace these days.

We talked about that when the JG case first came up.

Audio and video evidence are not the same as a TV episode though - see the NSW parliamant submissions for the Koala seizures regarding this and RSPCA get paid 50,000 for allowing the film crew to tag along. One person asked if it would be possible to stop this practice and gain their money some other way and they were answered with - even if they got nothing form it the publicity and promoton they get is worth it.Their donations rise and so do reports. These are official documents and statements made by their own.

[Erny]

*bump*

And also just repeating my question (in case it has been forgotten). I've had a bit of a look at the KCC Website but can't find the answer. If an ANKC Member via a different State Body (eg NT :D) came down to Victoria, are they allowed to use the Victorian State Body facilities?

Does anyone know?

I'm only presuming the answer to be "yes" - otherwise it would mean that anyone travelling interstate to show/exhibit their dog would not be allowed to use the exercise yards that are a part of Dogs Victoria's grounds. But I don't want to presume. ;)

Edited November 22, 2010 by Erny

[ellz]

If you area financial member of ANY of the ANKC State Controlling bodies you can exhibit anywhere within Australia. You are required to be aware of any specific rules pertaining to the place you are going to exhibit. For example, the QLD rules about judges handling other peoples' dogs and the Tasmanian rules about not dropping leads and remaining in effective control of your dog and also the rules about bait and brushing dogs in the ring...just to name a few.

People may also find it interesting that the rule which says that dogs whelped in a particular state MUST be registered in the state of birth is NOT enforceable. This goes against ACCC practices. A litter born anywhere in Australia may be registered in any State in which the person is a financial member.

This was one of the routes used to get around the taildocking issue when it was still allowed in WA. Prefixes were transferred to WA and puppies registered there no matter where they were born. Tails were docked and the puppies and dams sometimes never even left their homestate but because the prefix and registrations were done in WA, they were considered ok. Loopholes were closed preventing this however.

It is also the method of choice of certain bulk export agents who didn't want their business practices to be too transparent via publication of export pedigrees issued so all puppies would be registered and/or transferred through the ACTCA which at that stage was the only state who didn't publish these details.

[ozjen]

Why is it that if a dog is debarked because it is a proven nuisance barker then it is okay but if it is debarked without proof it is a cruelty crime especially if the dog is then shown?

Isn't the operation the same in both cases? Why is it then also cruel to show said dog? Not keen on debarking but can not see the laws logic on this matter abit like its fine to band sheep by the thousands to dock tails but not to band pups to dock tails, same procedure . Its okay to castrate pigletss without any form of pain reduction but not ok to snip dewclaws of pups ( instead a GA when older and a bigger cut) Why so many double standards, if any cause suffering then it should be stopped across the board not changed case by case.

While I'm glad that things have been settled for Judy I still do not believe she has been treated fairly in this matter and it should never have happened. The powers that be have alot to answer for and I dread them getting any more power than they already have. Who next and for what?