First Steps - Petition - The Beginning

[Steve]

We need your help!!!!!!

We want to collect over 100,000 signatures!

The Master Dog Breeders and Associates has launched a petition to go out Australia wide to have laws changed to ensure agencies charged with policing animal welfare laws have a transparent accountability process. We see this as an issue which is important issue for everyone who is the owner or in charge of animals in this country.

We can't gather that many signatures on our own. It will take a grassroots effort with everyone circulating petitions within their own networks of friends, family, and neighbours. In addition to signing yourself, would you please consider circulating one or more petition forms? Please cross postthis everywhere you can think of to peopel who are involved with any species of animal in this country.

Your efforts are vital to having a successful drive.

Here are some steps to help you:

All states and territories in Australia have different requirements for lodging petitions in each state. To accommodate those requirements we have written petitions which comply with each states rules. You can download your state's petition from our website

Here

Please get the signatures of as many people as you can and make sure they're residents in your state. If they are from other states and they want to sign the petition please direct them to our website where they can download the appropriate state petition and ask them to collect signatures from their local area.

You can work individually or copy the petition and give it to other people to collect signatures. If you are going to make it a team effort, divide the neighborhood and conquer.

Decide who's going to cover which parts of town and split up. This can be done by canvassing the neighborhood going door-to-door, speaking to people at local businesses or shows, meetings, training areas in fact anywhere people are likely to be or gather.

Please don't stop at the minimum required because the more signatures collected, the better are the chances the requested action will be taken.

Be prepared for opposing views. Not everyone will agree with your point of view and some will refuse to sign. Get permission before asking for signatures in front of a store or at a church.

· Don't go door to door in strange neighbourhoods

· If you are going to collect signatures in public do this in groups of two or more

· Don't forget to have enough pens, petition forms and a clipboard or table for them to lean on as they sign.

· Spread the word by emailing and phoning friends and family about the petition and ask them to move it around their friends and family

Privacy

Any person who signs a petition is required to leave personal information to ensure that their signature and support is legitimate.

Residential addresses are needed as P.O Boxes may not be counted as a valid address.

You should make it clear that you will not share information with any third parties.

I would also like to say to Jaxxbuddy who has worked on this for us for such a long time and pulled it all together in consideration of individual state requirements and laws [Her experience and knowledge has been a true asset for us] and to Raz who gave us insight and input into various issues which we also needed to bring it all together - Thank You.

The MDBA Team.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Steve

[Erny]

Steve - I'll be in on this and will do what I can.

But have sent you an email. I think the Victorian Petition form has to have every line numbered.

[Steve]

Steve - I'll be in on this and will do what I can.

But have sent you an email. I think the Victorian Petition form has to have every line numbered.

Just checking that now.

[Erny]

When I ran the Petition to try to change our Victorian law that bans the use of the PPCollar, I referred to "Fact Sheet 8". Seems the link to this (Government) Fact Sheet is broken, removed or no longer valid.

I printed out a copy of that sheet from way back and it said "The signatures must be numbered on each page, starting with number 1 for the first signature on every sheet."

I notice that in THIS GOVT LINK it doesn't say signatures must be numbered, but the example template has the lines numbered.

[Steve]

When I ran the Petition to try to change our Victorian law that bans the use of the PPCollar, I referred to "Fact Sheet 8". Seems the link to this (Government) Fact Sheet is broken, removed or no longer valid.

I printed out a copy of that sheet from way back and it said "The signatures must be numbered on each page, starting with number 1 for the first signature on every sheet."

I notice that in THIS GOVT LINK it doesn't say signatures must be numbered, but the example template has the lines numbered.

Thanks Id she will number them in case anyway.

[Erny]

Thanks Id she will number them in case anyway.

Roger that

[Steve]

bump

[WreckitWhippet]

This could make a huge difference to people's lives and their animals.

[raz]

This could make a huge difference to people's lives and their animals.

Yep - Check Steve's latest thread on Judy Gard. 12 months in court. 12 frigging months.

[WoofnHoof]

Why not just petition for animal welfare policing to become government responsibility like every other type of policing? I don't see the point of this petition given the general public are fairly benevolent towards the RSPCA, they aren't going to perceive the inherent problems but they will understand and sympathize with the government shirking it's responsibilities. Far more effective to bypass the whole RSPCA issue altogether IMO.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Why not just petition for animal welfare policing to become government responsibility like every other type of policing? I don't see the point of this petition given the general public are fairly benevolent towards the RSPCA, they aren't going to perceive the inherent problems but they will understand and sympathize with the government shirking it's responsibilities. Far more effective to bypass the whole RSPCA issue altogether IMO.

i dont believe that it is possible to get government to take on this responsibility as it is not in their interests to do so.

however, if the rspca has an external appeals process then they will be more accountable and at least people would be able to appeal against any rspca processes which cannot effectively be done at the moment.

goodness even the police have an external appeals process and they need a signed warrant before they can enter your premises

[raz]

goodness even the police have an external appeals process and they need a signed warrant before they can enter your premises

Bingo!

[WoofnHoof]

Why not just petition for animal welfare policing to become government responsibility like every other type of policing? I don't see the point of this petition given the general public are fairly benevolent towards the RSPCA, they aren't going to perceive the inherent problems but they will understand and sympathize with the government shirking it's responsibilities. Far more effective to bypass the whole RSPCA issue altogether IMO.

i dont believe that it is possible to get government to take on this responsibility as it is not in their interests to do so.

however, if the rspca has an external appeals process then they will be more accountable and at least people would be able to appeal against any rspca processes which cannot effectively be done at the moment.

goodness even the police have an external appeals process and they need a signed warrant before they can enter your premises

Why would then government impose accountability on the RSPCA? What's in it for them? Why would the majority of the general public support a petition to make them accountable when they don't perceive a problem? Far easier to gain support for an expanded role of government (not a new role they already do have a certain amount of responsibility already). A petition relies on numbers and you are going to have a hard time convincing the vast majority that the RSPCA isn't gods gift to animals.

I just do not see the point of this as it will be viewed as an attack on the RSPCA, a plea for government to take more responsibility however will appeal to most people including RSPCA sympathizers since the poor RSPCA is taxed beyond it's limits and it's a charity after all trying to do the job that should be filled by government. I think some people are allowing their view of the RSPCA to cloud their view of the issue at hand, animal welfare enforcement should be a government responsibility end of story.

Try to look at it from the point of view of someone whose only experience and knowledge of the RSPCA is the tv show and their pound puppy, they aren't going to look favorably to some purebred dog breeding association telling them the RSPCA is corrupt and needs to be held accountable, think about it there are far more people who view the RSPCA in a favorable light than not and you want as much support as you can get so the logical choice is to go for the option that is most likely to gain large enough support to enact a meaningful result.

ETA the police are part of a government agency, accountability is a matter of course for every government agency, it would be more impressive if you could name a private regulatory body that has an external accountability system, I can't think of any so without a precedent the goal is even more out of reach.

Edited November 18, 2010 by WoofnHoof

[raz]

it's a charity

That's funded by the taxpayer. Ofcourse they should be accountable. As it is, they are not answerable for complaints of wrong conduct by members of the public.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i believe with the amount of public and private monies going to the rspca, a private entity, that the general public would be astonished to know there is no external watchdog. they all assume there IS someone to complain to if things go wrong.

in just about every state there is cost cutting in government.

this request would not cost much to implement and wouldn't change too much but would protect the public from an errant rspca administration should that ever arise

ETA this petition does NOT say the rspca is corrupt, it is simply saying that if they have the powers to police that any person caught in their processes should have an avenue of appeal

Edited November 18, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[WoofnHoof]

Raz how many charities are answerable to complaints? Serious question regardless of where they source their money from is there normally an accountability process? The most I've heard from people complaining about charities eg money not going where they say it will the governments line is the equivalent of 'tough titties' and are the vast majority really going to get fired up about the 2% of government money that goes to them? I doubt it.

JB I don't believe the general public is going to give a crap because they perceive the RSPCA to be the authority on all things animal, changing attitudes just isn't going to happen it takes years and years. The petition does not have to say the RSPCA is corrupt but it still gives that impression. Sure there is cost cutting in government but they will spend money where they have to and if the petition doesn't get a huge amount of support they aren't going to do anything at all, it would be easier and more effective overall to lobby for increased government responsibility.

[raz]

Raz how many charities are answerable to complaints? Serious question regardless of where they source their money from is there normally an accountability process?

Well that's the thing, Woof - it's not regardless of where they source their money from. RSPCA is funded by the Govt so there should be a complaints procedure for wrong conduct as there is with the police, govt depts and council officers.

[Steve]

Why not just petition for animal welfare policing to become government responsibility like every other type of policing? I don't see the point of this petition given the general public are fairly benevolent towards the RSPCA, they aren't going to perceive the inherent problems but they will understand and sympathize with the government shirking it's responsibilities. Far more effective to bypass the whole RSPCA issue altogether IMO.

i dont believe that it is possible to get government to take on this responsibility as it is not in their interests to do so.

however, if the rspca has an external appeals process then they will be more accountable and at least people would be able to appeal against any rspca processes which cannot effectively be done at the moment.

goodness even the police have an external appeals process and they need a signed warrant before they can enter your premises

Why would then government impose accountability on the RSPCA? What's in it for them? Why would the majority of the general public support a petition to make them accountable when they don't perceive a problem? Far easier to gain support for an expanded role of government (not a new role they already do have a certain amount of responsibility already). A petition relies on numbers and you are going to have a hard time convincing the vast majority that the RSPCA isn't gods gift to animals.

I just do not see the point of this as it will be viewed as an attack on the RSPCA, a plea for government to take more responsibility however will appeal to most people including RSPCA sympathizers since the poor RSPCA is taxed beyond it's limits and it's a charity after all trying to do the job that should be filled by government. I think some people are allowing their view of the RSPCA to cloud their view of the issue at hand, animal welfare enforcement should be a government responsibility end of story.

Try to look at it from the point of view of someone whose only experience and knowledge of the RSPCA is the tv show and their pound puppy, they aren't going to look favorably to some purebred dog breeding association telling them the RSPCA is corrupt and needs to be held accountable, think about it there are far more people who view the RSPCA in a favorable light than not and you want as much support as you can get so the logical choice is to go for the option that is most likely to gain large enough support to enact a meaningful result.

ETA the police are part of a government agency, accountability is a matter of course for every government agency, it would be more impressive if you could name a private regulatory body that has an external accountability system, I can't think of any so without a precedent the goal is even more out of reach.

Ive no doubt that there are many who feel that animal welfare enforcement should be a government responsibility. Im also sure that sooner or later someone will feel strongly enough about that to mount a petition. We dont see the RSPCA having the power they do as a problem. We do however see that many people feel that there is no way of ensuring that problems perceived or real [which history has shown can occur in other agencies - government or other wise which have police powers ] can be independently assessed unless there is a system in place which allows for an external independent accountability process.

I cant see anywhere that a purebred dog breeding association is accusing them of being corrupt - in fact just the opposite. Our petition clearly states that a process as we are asking for protects the agency as well as any other party in the process.

Why would anyone be concerned about signing a petition which called for an independent accountability process?

If you feel that the issue is that the RSPCA shouldnt be involved in the enforcement of animal welfare enforcement and that this is a realistic attainable goal then as an Australian citizen you have a right to petition for this to happen. Im personally happy for them continue on - get lots of funding - more funding - and enforce the laws as long as there is a process in place to enable a more transparent accountability.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Raz how many charities are answerable to complaints? Serious question regardless of where they source their money from is there normally an accountability process? The most I've heard from people complaining about charities eg money not going where they say it will the governments line is the equivalent of 'tough titties' and are the vast majority really going to get fired up about the 2% of government money that goes to them? I doubt it.

JB I don't believe the general public is going to give a crap because they perceive the RSPCA to be the authority on all things animal, changing attitudes just isn't going to happen it takes years and years. The petition does not have to say the RSPCA is corrupt but it still gives that impression. Sure there is cost cutting in government but they will spend money where they have to and if the petition doesn't get a huge amount of support they aren't going to do anything at all, it would be easier and more effective overall to lobby for increased government responsibility.

most charities also don't have policing powers and the powers to prosecute people.

we will have to agree to disagree, i have worked in government and all i know is that new responsibilities take years to be put into place. the request in this petition wont take years.

is it so bad to ask the rspca to be accountable for what they do and to give people the right to appeal their decisions.

[raz]

The petition does not have to say the RSPCA is corrupt

And on that point - no it doesnt. The wording was very carefully chosen.