What's The Answer Number 4

[SpikesPuppy]

If on the street, my firm belief is that ALL dogs should be on a leash and that a hefty fine be introduced when someone is seen walking their dog off leash; I cringe at the sight of an unleashed dog being walked in a busy street aside from other factors.

I agree with this. Increase offlead fines and have a 3 strikes system that incurs a much larger fine. Having extra Rangers wont help IMO, they are never available when you need one, no matter how many there are.

Also, if an area attracts over a certain amount of calls over offlead dogs, then clear signage should be erected by council- ie "Offlead dogs will be fined" etc, outlining the fines. We have "no dogs offlead" at many parks, obviously this needs to be reinforced on the street.

Poo pag dispensers are fabulous too. I am on the border or 2 councils- one that uses them and one that doesn't. Guess which one has more on street poo? (mind you, there are always the knobs who wont pick it up regardless... but what can you do about them aside from a good slap?)

How hard is it though to take a bag with you?? I carry as many as will fit in my pockets, if I have run out I grab a few supermarket bags.

The council supplied ones often get removed by bored children. IMO it is the owners responsibility to provide the bags, not the council.

More bins would be good though!' carrying 3 full bags and walking 3 dogs is a difficult art to master LOL. Even when they are well behaved!

Some councils claim to have fines for people found not carrying a waste recepticle whilst walking their dog and i would like to see this enforced. Yep sucks if you forget or use them all up (which is why I take about 10- Caber poops a lot on walks), but you break the rules, you wear the punishment. Just like speeding or parking fines.

Edited November 18, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[pipsqueak]

I'll settle for having rangers available to police the current laws - this means having them available OUT OF OFFICE HOURS. I have lost count of the number of times that I have tried to call a ranger for a loose dog, or worse a dog that has rushed at us. (which I have to do via the local council office!!!), only to be told that there is "no-one available to take my call" and to leave a message. If I leave a message, the ranger eventually gets back to, and then asks if the dog is still there.... ummm, I saw the dog when I was walking at 6.00am this morning, it is now 2.30pm... so, rangers says they cannot do anything. So, I've given up calling them. Though, I will say that there is an accident waiting to happen close to us - dog is often loss (no owner in sight) and will rush at any dog that dares to walk down "his" street.

Sorry, rant over.

I guess shooting on sight the morons who don't believe the leash laws apply to them, isn't an option??

[sllebasi]

Was going to suggest using off leash parks and dog areas as meeting places and information points to people. A discussion board could be put up, leaflets targeting a particular area, self help tools to deal with issues and behaviours etc. but then I was thinking, its probably the more responsible people that are using these areas to begin with, so it may not help with the overall situation.

[sllebasi]

"I'll settle for having rangers available to police the current laws - this means having them available OUT OF OFFICE HOURS. I have lost count of the number of times that I have tried to call a ranger for a loose dog, or worse a dog that has rushed at us. (which I have to do via the local council office!!!), only to be told that there is "no-one available to take my call" and to leave a message"

I agree with this too, particularly on days like new years day with all the dogs that have been scared off with fireworks - have lost count number of times I have come across scared, stray dogs who really need help on that particular day.

[poodlefan]

When I mentioned dog training etc I meant reward those who put the effort in, be it formal classes or just good ownership, the well behaved dogs and their owners should be rewarded and encouraged.

In the ACT, dogs that pass a certain level of obedience attract cheaper registration fees.

[nickyp]

For dog owners, I think there needs to be strong incentives to be responsible and strong disincentives to be irresponsible. Incentives could include free/cheap microchipping, free/cheap registration for dogs that can pass a basic obedience test to encourage owners to train their dogs.

Disincentives are things like more/better enforcement of local laws regarding off-lead dogs, roaming dogs and poo clean up. In my council area, for example, rangers are only available during business hours, which is not the time when most infringements occur. It's the early mornings, evenings and weekends when people are out and about with their dogs that the rangers need to be out and visible, talking to people and issuing fines if necessary. Also, in my area, only leash-free areas are sign posted as such. The council expects people to assume that a dog must be on lead, unless there is a sign saying otherwise. In reality, people make the opposite assumption. Any time I've mentioned to someone that their dog should be on lead, their instant retort is that there's no sign saying so. All parks and reserves should have prominent signs saying what is and isn't allowed within their boundaries, so that there is no doubt.

Education is the other prong of the attack, IMO. Kids should attend annual workshops about responsible pet ownership and how to approach dogs, etc. so that the message is getting sent home from an early age. I think individual councils should run annual pet expos (I know some already do, but not all) featuring demos by obedience and dog sport groups, info sessions, micro-chipping, vet checks, on-site rego. As well as this I would like to see them encourage breed, obedience and dog sport groups to run their own regular demonstrations, etc. For example, our local civic centre and a good-sized lawn area out the front. They could have a 'dog day" there once a month where the local obedience club or professional dog trainers could do a demo, maybe run a drop-in class or there could be flyball, agility, herding, doggy dancing etc. Breed clubs could even hold a small 'fun day' with some fun comps for their members. The point is to get responsible owners and healthy, happy dogs out where they are highly visible and make responsible dog ownership attractive.

This has turned into a long, incoherent ramble and I don't have time to edit and clarify atm, but I hope you get what I mean.

[poodlefan]

Irresponsibility stems from 2 primary causes IMO.

Ignorance - of the right things to do or the consequence of doing the wrong thing. Education is the cure for ignorance.

Indifference - not giving a toss if there are no negative consquences for you. The key there is to make some negative consequences - and that means laws and penalties. We've got the laws. They need to be enforced and penalties have to be truely aversive.

[Erny]

I would like to see paid leash free parks in all councils. Buy a card (like a credit card) and keep it topped up, it charges a fee per 10 minutes or so. One park could have several runs, perhaps different fees for different sizes.

Maybe others would, but I wouldn't like this. I pay rates just like many others. I also pay Council Dog Registration fees, just like many others. And I don't think "large dog owners" should be discriminated against. I think we pay enough for everything that we do without knowing that even going for a lovely walk and run with your dog is going to cost too - and to have to think to remember your card .... and to have to know to keep an eye on time limits for being allowed to run your dog. Sorry, but that's like bringing in more and more laws but in the guise of restrictions and levies. Besides which, who would police these? Not to mention the cost involved in fencing and monitoring people's cards at gates. Even if automated, that would cost a fortune and then there will be break-downs and maintenance. And who would be the responsible party for the card issue? Would the cards be "Nationally Recognised" at all parks, or would they relate to Council area. Which would mean that if you were 'out of town' you wouldn't be able to run your dog in another Council district's off-leash park.

I want the freedom to enjoy what little freedoms we have left.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Erny

[poodlefan]

I would like to see paid leash free parks in all councils. Buy a card (like a credit card) and keep it topped up, it charges a fee per 10 minutes or so. One park could have several runs, perhaps different fees for different sizes.

Maybe others would, but I wouldn't like this. I pay rates just like many others. I also pay Council Dog Registration fees, just like many others. And I don't think "large dog owners" should be discriminated against. I think we pay enough for everything that we do without knowing that even going for a lovely walk and run with your dog is going to cost too - and to have to think to remember your card .... and to have to know to keep an eye on time limits for being allowed to run your dog. Sorry, but that's like bringing in more and more laws but in the guise of restrictions and levies. Besides which, who would police these? Not to mention the cost involved in fencing and monitoring people's cards at gates. Even if automated, that would cost a fortune and then there will be break-downs and maintenance.

I want the freedom to enjoy what little freedoms we have left.

I would like to see park users vetted to see they have paid their council registration. A significant proportion haven't.

Canberra has an extensive network of 'recreation paths' that are largely ruled by cyclists. I'd like to see duplication of these paths to provide one for cyclists and one for everyone else (including young children on bikes). Cyclists are no more compatible with dogs, prams and kiddies than they are with cars.

More bins, more bags, and more rangers would sure help a lot.

[Erny]

In the ACT, dogs that pass a certain level of obedience attract cheaper registration fees.

We had that too (Casey Council). But now it is a case of cheaper rego fees if dog is microchipped and/or trained. So, you get a discount if your dog is microchipped. You get (from memory) the same discount if your dog is trained. But not both.

I don't see the sense in this given that microchipping is mandatory anyway. I did raise this with Council a few years ago and pointed out that it seemed they were removing the incentive to train dogs. They acknowledged that point but to my knowledge nothing was changed.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Erny

[sllebasi]

More parks would help me - the only one near me is right next to a skatepark which has lots of lots of drug problems and behaviour problems so it is not safe for me to take my dog.

[SpikesPuppy]

When I mentioned dog training etc I meant reward those who put the effort in, be it formal classes or just good ownership, the well behaved dogs and their owners should be rewarded and encouraged.

In the ACT, dogs that pass a certain level of obedience attract cheaper registration fees.

Yeah we have that in some councils here, but when I looked into it, the obedience clubs with eligibility were few and far between and the kind that offered set length courses rather than VCA approved clubs etc. And as far as I could tell, there was no way an owner could have their dog assessed without attending these organizations (which IMO many were a bit dippy).

Also, when the discounted fee applies to dog that are microchipped OR desexed OR over 10 years old OR registered working dogs OR owned by a registered breeding establishment OR ANKC registered it's a little bit pointless, isn't it???

[raz]

Indifference - not giving a toss if there are no negative consquences for you. The key there is to make some negative consequences - and that means laws and penalties. We've got the laws. They need to be enforced and penalties have to be truely aversive.

I agree with this to a great extent eg my dog crapped in the park, on the pathway, on a neighbours lawn. Big deal it's only one dog crap (not if 100 dog owners every day think the same thing ETA and judging by my local dog park, looks like just about everyone who uses it is indifferent. It's a minefield!) BUT look at the hefty fines for people who toss cigarette butts out of car windows, especially in summer, yet they still do it. Drink drivers - people still drink and drive. Speeders - same thing. I dont know what the answer is but as it is, it's not working.

Edited November 18, 2010 by raz

[SpikesPuppy]

When I mentioned dog training etc I meant reward those who put the effort in, be it formal classes or just good ownership, the well behaved dogs and their owners should be rewarded and encouraged.

In the ACT, dogs that pass a certain level of obedience attract cheaper registration fees.

Yeah we have that in some councils here, but when I looked into it, the obedience clubs with eligibility were few and far between and the kind that offered set length courses rather than VCA approved clubs etc. And as far as I could tell, there was no way an owner could have their dog assessed without attending these organizations (which IMO many were a bit dippy).

Also, when the discounted fee applies to dog that are microchipped OR desexed OR over 10 years old OR registered working dogs OR owned by a registered breeding establishment OR ANKC registered it's a little bit pointless, isn't it???

[SpikesPuppy]

I would like to see paid leash free parks in all councils. Buy a card (like a credit card) and keep it topped up, it charges a fee per 10 minutes or so. One park could have several runs, perhaps different fees for different sizes.

Maybe others would, but I wouldn't like this. I pay rates just like many others. I also pay Council Dog Registration fees, just like many others. And I don't think "large dog owners" should be discriminated against. I think we pay enough for everything that we do without knowing that even going for a lovely walk and run with your dog is going to cost too - and to have to think to remember your card .... and to have to know to keep an eye on time limits for being allowed to run your dog. Sorry, but that's like bringing in more and more laws but in the guise of restrictions and levies. Besides which, who would police these? Not to mention the cost involved in fencing and monitoring people's cards at gates. Even if automated, that would cost a fortune and then there will be break-downs and maintenance. And who would be the responsible party for the card issue? Would the cards be "Nationally Recognised" at all parks, or would they relate to Council area. Which would mean that if you were 'out of town' you wouldn't be able to run your dog in another Council district's off-leash park.

I want the freedom to enjoy what little freedoms we have left.

I meant different fees for different sized runs, not different sized dogs.

I don't use leash free parks (apart from KCC), and I don't like that they are a free for all. I don't even always enjoy walking my leashed dogs through leash only parks due to uncontrolled dogs (on or off leash), racing children, cyclists etc.

Gee it was just an idea, a thought. Forgive me for trying.

[Erny]

How hard is it though to take a bag with you?? I carry as many as will fit in my pockets, if I have run out I grab a few supermarket bags.

I agree it is not difficult, but there are times when they can easily be forgotten. It is a relief to know that where you are headed supply them. Picking up poo using a tissue isn't the nicest thing in the world to do, lol.

The council supplied ones often get removed by bored children. IMO it is the owners responsibility to provide the bags, not the council.

Yes/no. Councils are responsible for services that assist the community and providing services that assist people in achieving that end as far as dog waste is concerned is not a bad thing, especially considering the presence of dog faeces is a fairly major complaint. Like one of the other posters, when I am in areas where there are doggy doo bag dispensers, I tend to find there is less dog faeces to be found on the ground. But I agree that "bored children" (so to speak) can be a problem to the dispensers and the poo bag supply, which is why these dispensers need to be found in more publicly frequented/busy areas. For example, along the street scape towards the entrance of a park; maybe near shops if this is on the way; etc. This would need to be different in each case, according to the neighbourhood environment and park location.

More bins would be good though!'

TOTALLY agree with that. I tugged on my dog's lead to stop him pulling me over one day, and the poo bag (which was in the same hand) hit my leg and split open. Yuck! It was the bio-degradable one which I have no complaint about, but our ones can be thin and weak at the seams. I'm always careful of that now and like to get rid of it asap. Bumma if your dog 'goes' at the beginning of a walk rather than the end. Also, holding a full poop bag and trying to train with (eg) tug is awkward. Not to mention that it really urks my boy as well, for he is very much put off by the smell of his own poop and any remnants of its scent on a toy/tug will have him refusing to go near .

Some councils claim to have fines for people found not carrying a waste recepticle whilst walking their dog and i would like to see this enforced. Yep sucks if you forget or use them all up (which is why I take about 10- Caber poops a lot on walks), but you break the rules, you wear the punishment. Just like speeding or parking fines.

Not picking on you specifically, SP, but again I am compelled to express my disagreement. No 'crime' is committed if your dog hasn't pooped. Like I have said before, I've forgotten on the odd occasion over the years but have been known to pick up using a tissue (or two). I've also found a plastic bag along the way and used that. So just because I don't have a poo bag on me doesn't mean I have and will do the wrong thing and I would very much object to being fined because someone thinks I might do the wrong thing.

[Erny]

Gee it was just an idea, a thought. Forgive me for trying.

Yes sorry. It does seem as though I'm picking. Intention is to just be constructively conversive. They are ideas and don't be put off by me. Apologies, and your posts are appreciated .

Edited November 18, 2010 by Erny

[Red Fox]

Public education. Make the general public aware of existing laws then enforce them.

Some examples:

Signage - reminders to register your dog / pick up after your dog on council bins, signs marking off leash / on leash areas (not presuming that the public can tell the difference). Signs would need to include info on fines for breaking these laws.

Flyers clearly outlining laws and basic expectations distributed to all households when renewal for registration is due.

Targeting kids. I whole-heartedly agree with this statement by BCPuppy:

Educate the children. Teach them about reponsible pet ownership. Done correctly what they learn at school is taken home and put into practice, I have heard kids that have been taught about littering and environment nagging parents to make sure they dispose of litter appropriately and make use of recycling.

poodlefan:

Irresponsibility stems from 2 primary causes IMO.

Ignorance - of the right things to do or the consequence of doing the wrong thing. Education is the cure for ignorance.

Indifference - not giving a toss if there are no negative consquences for you. The key there is to make some negative consequences - and that means laws and penalties. We've got the laws. They need to be enforced and penalties have to be truely aversive.

[Erny]

Indifference - not giving a toss if there are no negative consequences for you. The key there is to make some negative consequences - and that means laws and penalties. We've got the laws. They need to be enforced and penalties have to be truly aversive.

Negative consequences should be there, at least so that they can be used if required/possible. But I think making doing the wrong thing a "socially unacceptable" thing and something to feel guilty about it a very powerful controller. More than fines/punishments. The hard part is, getting these things to begin to be socially unacceptable. For that, many people need to adopt the idea in the first place.

[SpikesPuppy]

Gee it was just an idea, a thought. Forgive me for trying.

Yes sorry. It does seem as though I'm picking. Intention is to just be conversive. They are ideas and don't be put off by me. Apologies, and your posts are appreciated .

Sorry, I went to delete the last comment. It was uneccesarry. I'm in a snippy mood ATM.

And I agree it won't suit everyone but as someone who refrains from using public leash free areas and doesnt even overly enjoy using public parks with my dogs on leash, I would love somewhere I couldgo with my dogs and know we were not going to be bothered by dogs, ignorant cyclists or pram pushers etc.

We also have hares in our local park (plus they are in the process of turning it into a wetland), and I defy even the beat trained dog to recall if a hare bolts out of the grass 2 meters from it's nose! The park is not fenced at all and most of the roads surrounding are quite busy.