Help With Fright

[VJB]

My friend has a lovely 9 month old Lagotto.

A few evenings ago, it was very hot down here in Sydney. They left the front door open, and the dog was having a sleep just inside the screen door.

Quite late in the evening, another dog (from the street) suddenly appeared on the other side of the screen door, and has given the Lagotto a major scare, and it apparently took him over 2 hours to stop barking.

He hasn't slept much since, and will not settle. I would love to give them some advice on what is best to do....... we don't want to make things worse.

Any ideas??

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Oh dear, poor dog has had an awful shock.

I'd get some calming Chinese Herbs from the All Natural Vet at Russell Lea (nr Drummoyne), they are also behaviouralists so you can do everything with the one consultation providing you explain what you need at the outset.

The calming herbs are amazing, I've had great results with them before.

[VJB]

Just seen this family walking the dog a moment ago.

Since the incident, he apparently will not sleep in his bed either. It is kept at the end of their bed. He will only sleep on the floor next to the owner.

I asked if he feared the front door, and it appears he is ok with it. He is quite jumpy at night time though, and reacting to any movement/noise made. Owners hubby came home last night from work at 10.30pm and it took the dog a long time to settle again. Even when 'settled' he is on guard though, and daytime he is now more tired than usual.

I told them not to praise or comfort his fearful behaviour.

In the evening, the front door is shut but he will not willingly come to his bed in the bedroom. He is waiting out near the front door and barking in an insecure way.

Woo-woo-woo-wooo... type bark. Owner goes out to tell him to be quiet, which he responds to, but starts barking the moment owner goes back into bedroom.

[poochmad]

Perhaps a behavourist is a good idea? That way they can be assured that what they are doing is not going to cause more anxiety for their pooch. I'm sure someone on here can recommend a good one in your area.

Edited November 16, 2010 by poochmad

[corvus]

I would try some massage and a calming wrap. You can use a stretchy t-shirt or an elastic bandage to make a wrap. Not sure how helpful it would be, but it certainly would not hurt or make it worse. Erik gets a bit on the hyper-alert side sometimes and massage really helps. We just got him a Thundershirt, which is a kind of calming wrap. It seems to help him calm more quickly after getting worked up, and does calm him well if he's only a little bit aroused, but doesn't do much if he's running around barking.

[sas]

Are they pandering him?

[aussielover]

Are they pandering him?

I also wonder about this.

I would continue with the normal routine and not fuss over him.

Perhaps try a DAP diffuser or spray as well.

Is he of a nervous temperament normally?

[VJB]

Are they pandering him?

I also wonder about this.

I would continue with the normal routine and not fuss over him.

Perhaps try a DAP diffuser or spray as well.

Is he of a nervous temperament normally?

No, this was the first thing I asked, and she said that they were not make any attempt to pander. They have been verbally stern with him for the barking in the lounge area at night, but I am unsure how this is working as they eventually go out to him and he stops barking, looks at them, waits for them to go again, and continues to bark at noises etc.

I wouldn't say he has been a nervous temperament before, just usual puppy stuff.

I will talk to owner about a DAP diffuser or spray. It would be best to deal with this now, before neurotic habits form. He's such a gorgeous dog.

[ellz]

, this was the first thing I asked, and she said that they were not make any attempt to pander. They have been verbally stern with him for the barking in the lounge area at night, but I am unsure how this is working as they eventually go out to him and he stops barking, looks at them, waits for them to go again, and continues to bark at noises etc.

In this case, it sounds as though the owners don't consider themselves to be pandering to him, but the dog is still accepting the rebuke for barking as reassurance (crazy as it sounds). They may just have to weather it and ignore the barking (as difficult as it can be). Sounds like whether they sweet talk him or tell him off, all he is doing is craving the attention and he knows that by barking, he will get it.

I would say that it should be "business as usual" and keep the dog in his usual routine with normal amounts of praise and encouragement for jobs well done, but ignoring him completely if he starts to carry on and look for reassurance.

[aussielover]

Is he crate trained?

Perhaps a crate might make him feel safer?

[tlc]

Poor doggie, I wonder if the dog now thinks he needs to protect the family after the fright. They could perhaps be more assertive on other ways, maybe they already are. Do they go to training with him? Do they play the leadership role well?

Hard to know how exactly to make him feel secure, but if they are more assertive then hopefully he will relax in time. its a bit like getting a dog over a dog attack as soon as you can get them out and around other dogs the better as long as your sure the dogs they are around are ok.

Have they had him around other dogs since this happened?

[sas]

Negative reaction by owners (telling off for barking) is still attention to the dog.

I would really be looking at setting him up for success rather than letting him fail.

[aussielover]

I've been thinking about this for a bit and I think there have been some good suggestions which they could try.

However, perhaps seeing a behaviourist might also be the way to go, as this relatively minor incident (imo) has caused a major upset for the dog and family and I find it unusual the dog has taken so long to settle.

A professional would be able to assess the interaction between pup and family as well.

The same thing has happened to my pup (who was 6 months at the time)- she was sleeping by the screen door when two massive huskies came up to our door (from the park across the road) and gave her a bit of a fright (and us!)

She intially came running to me but recovered a few mins later when the dogs had left and hasn't had any anxiety about noises, sleeping by the door etc since then.

I don't know if she recovered so quickly because she has pretty solid nerves or knows that we will protect her or is just a confident dog???

The dog I am babysitting atm is quite noisy and will bark at the slightest sound and wants to sleep on top of you etc, so perhaps this is just the pups natural personality coming though?

Best get a professional to assist if still concerned i reckon!

[corvus]

We are not necessarily dealing with just behaviour. IME, it pays to identify whether the main motivator is something tangible or something that then leads to a sought after change in emotional state. It is not nice to feel afraid and an animal will try to find ways to behave that will alleviate that feeling of fear or anxiety or even just high arousal. For example, say you're worried about getting a nasty surprise. One possible strategy is to just be more alert. But when you're more alert, you hear more things and see more things and smell more things and if you are more alert because you are afraid of something bad happening, you will tend to expect all these things you sense are probably going to turn out to be bad. So you react to them as if they are bad, which gets you more upset because you are in a constant state of preparing for something bad to happen, so even when it doesn't happen, you can't relax much before something else gets you worried. Or alternatively, you react to the worrying stimuli, nothing bad happens to you, and so you feel like you've averted the bad thing and continue to repeat that behaviour because it makes you feel like you're averting disaster.

I think I'm not communicating this very well. I really just want to say that it's likely to be complicated and I think that treating the behaviour without considering the emotional state that might be driving the behaviour is a mistake. It may well work, but at what cost to the dog? You won't ever know. But to me, this is the exact situation where I would want to be there for my dog. If I can do something to make him feel more relaxed, I've not only treated the problem behaviour quickly, effectively, and possibly permanently, but given the dog more confidence in himself that he can manage upsetting things happening to him, and more trust in me that I can help him when he needs it. Emotional stability is something I want my dogs to think they can get from me. It took me a long time to learn that this is leadership. Not ignoring a frightened dog, or demanding a dog respect me. Just being the one that can always make them feel safe, confident and relaxed. The one that can right a world gone wrong and give them something they can do with impunity when they are at a loss. I want dogs that hardly ever need my input to feel emotionally stable, but part of achieving that is being able to help them find it when they are having trouble finding it on their own.

[aussielover]

We are not necessarily dealing with just behaviour. IME, it pays to identify whether the main motivator is something tangible or something that then leads to a sought after change in emotional state. It is not nice to feel afraid and an animal will try to find ways to behave that will alleviate that feeling of fear or anxiety or even just high arousal. For example, say you're worried about getting a nasty surprise. One possible strategy is to just be more alert. But when you're more alert, you hear more things and see more things and smell more things and if you are more alert because you are afraid of something bad happening, you will tend to expect all these things you sense are probably going to turn out to be bad. So you react to them as if they are bad, which gets you more upset because you are in a constant state of preparing for something bad to happen, so even when it doesn't happen, you can't relax much before something else gets you worried. Or alternatively, you react to the worrying stimuli, nothing bad happens to you, and so you feel like you've averted the bad thing and continue to repeat that behaviour because it makes you feel like you're averting disaster.

I think I'm not communicating this very well. I really just want to say that it's likely to be complicated and I think that treating the behaviour without considering the emotional state that might be driving the behaviour is a mistake. It may well work, but at what cost to the dog? You won't ever know. But to me, this is the exact situation where I would want to be there for my dog. If I can do something to make him feel more relaxed, I've not only treated the problem behaviour quickly, effectively, and possibly permanently, but given the dog more confidence in himself that he can manage upsetting things happening to him, and more trust in me that I can help him when he needs it. Emotional stability is something I want my dogs to think they can get from me. It took me a long time to learn that this is leadership. Not ignoring a frightened dog, or demanding a dog respect me. Just being the one that can always make them feel safe, confident and relaxed. The one that can right a world gone wrong and give them something they can do with impunity when they are at a loss. I want dogs that hardly ever need my input to feel emotionally stable, but part of achieving that is being able to help them find it when they are having trouble finding it on their own.

Hey Corvus, I get what you're saying but I am confused? you don't demand your dog respects you?

I think it would be pretty hard to live with a dog that didn't respect you?

[ellz]

I think the puppy in this case is well aware that he is a lower-ranking member of the pack (as he should be) so whenever he feels frightened or unsure, he is looking to the other members of the pack for reassurance. He is getting this and their attention by barking.

So in order to say to him, that the pack is not concerned by whatever is frightening you because it really ISN'T that scary but that your barking isn't going to get our attention either, he needs to be ignored.

Sooner or later he will "get" that if the pack aren't worried, then he has no need to be concerned either and that he will get ample attention if he is a good puppy and sits quietly without making a fuss because barking unneccessarily will have NO effect whatsoever.

I HOPE I can convey what I'm trying to get across.....I know what I'm saying and could probably tell you better if we were face to face. It's just that my literacy and expression are failing me badly today.

[corvus]

I do not demand my dogs respect me, but I don't need to. If they want something they have been taught the best bet to get it is sit or down and be quiet. That sees us through the majority of life's conflicts. My younger dog is a thorough obnoxious brat by nature and will pretty much try anything. No doubt he's the kind of dog many people would consider very dominant. It's not simple the way I manage him, but in its simplest form, I don't care if he doesn't respect me as long as he does what he's told. He does what he's told because it is typically rewarding for him to do so. That has nothing to do with respect. It's just learning and habit. Living with a dog that is in the habit of doing what he's told is not especially hard.

[aussielover]

I do not demand my dogs respect me, but I don't need to. If they want something they have been taught the best bet to get it is sit or down and be quiet. That sees us through the majority of life's conflicts. My younger dog is a thorough obnoxious brat by nature and will pretty much try anything. No doubt he's the kind of dog many people would consider very dominant. It's not simple the way I manage him, but in its simplest form, I don't care if he doesn't respect me as long as he does what he's told. He does what he's told because it is typically rewarding for him to do so. That has nothing to do with respect. It's just learning and habit. Living with a dog that is in the habit of doing what he's told is not especially hard.

Ok very confused now... isn't that pretty much the same thing as respecting you?

[sas]

I do not demand my dogs respect me, but I don't need to. If they want something they have been taught the best bet to get it is sit or down and be quiet. That sees us through the majority of life's conflicts. My younger dog is a thorough obnoxious brat by nature and will pretty much try anything. No doubt he's the kind of dog many people would consider very dominant. It's not simple the way I manage him, but in its simplest form, I don't care if he doesn't respect me as long as he does what he's told. He does what he's told because it is typically rewarding for him to do so. That has nothing to do with respect. It's just learning and habit. Living with a dog that is in the habit of doing what he's told is not especially hard.

Then why is one of your dogs a nervious wreck?

[corvus]

Ok very confused now... isn't that pretty much the same thing as respecting you?

It is to me. I don't know about anyone else.

ETA Sorry, that probably didn't help. It's not at all the same thing to me for a whole bunch of reasons I can't be bothered trying to explain, but essentially I don't think respect even means much to dogs unless through threat and intimidation.

Edited November 17, 2010 by corvus