So Whats The Answer

[Lhok]

One thing that has been on my mind is gathering data on where the dogs are coming from. Doesn't matter if it is a breeder, pet shop, backyard breeder etc

One of my thoughts were having an unchangeable 3 contact detail with the breeder/pet shop/rescue etc on it. This 3rd contact could be used to contact the breeder/rescue/ etc if the dog ended up dumped and they would get the first chance to rescue it out of the situation before it was left in the pound.

I can see ways that it could be/ would be abused but I think that it gathering data on where they are coming from would be good.

Education is a good idea too, however there will always be the ones who don't get it. I know of a few people who get animals then palm them off as soon as they go back into the rental market (a couple of these people I know would still palm them off even if they got a rental place that allowed pets.)

just my two cents.

--Lhok

[Shmurps]

I wonder if we could get honest feed back from the public via talk back radio for example.

Richard Stubbs is a dog lover and has a good following on the ABC radio.

[Sheridan]

I think a major part of education is teaching the media morons. Now, you're never going to edumacate the gardner but recall the recent furore over (what was it?) the 7.00 pm Project. We get threads so often complaining about something a media moron has said about dog breeding and getting dogs from pet shops and such like. They need to be educated because they have the ear of the public.

[Monah]

I like the idea someone (sorry, lost who...) put up about Wyong doing cheaper desexing and rego instead of release fines etc. and it 's cheaper than the fine.

This is the kind of thing that would work here. I'ts a small thing in the scheme of things but a start as that is one less 'breeder' in the community (byb or accidental). In this area (and Soufs Bundaberg article most dumpage etc is in this area) anythiing that is less money than the alternative is a better option.

The little things will eventually bring about greater things. WHen microchipping 'days' are on here, many people turn up for $25 micro, so they obviously have NOT had it done previously......laws or no laws...

but at least these special days do encourage them out of the woodwork.

Our local paper here has also helped greatly by putting in pet stories, both rescues and horror several times a week and it IS making everyone much more aware about how bad the situation is. Hundreds of people have offered help, so not all is lost. If we can only work out how to stop animals being in this predicament in the first place.

It's NORMAL here for people to move and leave a couple of cats or a dog behind...

Media (great post Anne) and marketing is the base work, but is very expensive so 'begging' local and free newpapers etc. can go far in getting the information out to the public via educated people.

Crikey, up here, put on a sausage sizzle and 'they will come'...

[labsrule]

..

Edited November 16, 2010 by labsrule

[moosmum]

I wonder if we could get honest feed back from the public via talk back radio for example.

Richard Stubbs is a dog lover and has a good following on the ABC radio.

I realy like this idea,but think it should be clearly stated through out that legislation is not an option,as its just driving dog ownership and experience further under gound.

I also think cheaper desexing would make a huge difference.

Theres been a lot of great ideas in this thread in particular.

I don't think you can ever get through to every one.Some people are just morons,but not many actualy choose to be.

Peer pressure would also see more being reported (or helped) once the message starts to get out.

[Steve]

Social change is always the hardest part. We live in a fairly tolerant and socially just society yet we still have crime, stupidity and ignorance. Most normal people would not consider child abuse acceptable yet it still happens in increasing numbers every single year. One of your neighbours or someone you know may even be guilty of harming a child. So what chance do we have when it comes to animals?

I think we, the people passionate about the issue can immediately:

1. encourage adherance to existing laws by all pet owners we come in to contact with

2. EXPECT that the agencies currently responsible for enforcing these laws do so

3. Live as role models for good pet ownership

4. Share our knowledge about good pet ownership in a constructive way (with the laws picking up the true criminals) particularly if you are a registered breeder or legitimate rescue group

5. Continue to be passionate and compassionate about the issue whether that makes us friends or enemies

6. Have a voice when the time is right.

Social change is slow and it is about setting standards for others to identify and aspire to. So many people don't know any differently. Some people just don't give a shit. I want to live in a society that doesn't tolerate either. Responsibility happens at every level of our lives and owning a pet should be no different. In some council areas you can now get fined for not keeping your yard tidy. You get fined for parking too long in the one spot. You are expected to dress, speak and act a certain way in your workplace. You can't go into a shop and take a packet of chewing gum without paying for it. But you can starve your pet, dump it and get away with it? Why? Why are we so gutless to say that is not acceptable in our community/country?

I wonder what the RSPCA would do if we started fund raising and putting out media messages of our own, saturating wherever we could across the country for change? Are we scared of doing this or of giving mixed messages or looking like radical activists? Should that matter?

Just putting the idea out there because we still have free speech in this country and we seem to be afraid of hurting someone else's feelings by using it.

You are about to find out.

[Little Gifts]

So the morons should get smart or suffer the consequences. I have an older sister who is all whoa is me about anything and everything. Hasn't worked a day in 27 years and claims every little thing she can from my taxes. This sister has dumped a dog and a cat over the years. The dog came to me and was a lovely boy who just needed some attention. Cat was dumped in an industrial estate. If she tried that today I would dob her in and let her suffer the consequences. People know right from wrong. Some just choose to ignore it and do whatever the hell they please. Maybe a big fine might actually impact on their self-focussed lives enough to stop them from bothering to try it again.

And someone commented above that animal abuse and child abuse are two totally different things. After working in statutory child protection for over 20 I have to disagree with you. Some issues go hand in hand and I can assure you that if the kids are neglected or being subject to physical abuse/DV then so is the dog. If a parent can't give a shit about the basic needs of their children then I can guarantee you that they care even less about any animals living in the family home. I have not seen any incidences of links between sexual abuse of animals and children in the same household but with sexual abuse often comes physical abuse and/or neglect of children (and in turn any animals at the house). It is all about the absence of compassion for or understanding of the basic needs of other living things.

I really think change has to happen at several levels simultaneously - use of media (inc online media and blogs/FB), public opinion/discussion, education through schools, pounds and tv advertising, cheaper desexing and micro-chipping, making it easier to genuinly rehome, better matching between owner and dog, no emotive sales (ie pet shop windows), making it easier to own a dog (ie renting, exercising locally), better law enforcement. These are my suggestions and some of them are happening right now but on a smaller scale and only locally uncoordinated. I used to think most of this was the RSPCA's role but??????

Some might disagree with shock value tactics but the use of graphic adverts has been proven to have a positive impact on the public. Think in terms of ads about road deaths and the original grim reaper ad for AIDS /HIV. I have these visions in my mind of say a man lovingly washing and waxing his hotted up car whilst out in the back yard sits an emaciated and chained up dog. Or a woman so excited at buying a pair of very expensive shoes but then baulking at the vet in paying a bill for her sick dog. Or even a small child with tears streaming down its face just sitting there by itself with nothing and then a puppy hiding because it is afraid. Or an old person in a nursing home with no visitors and an old dog shivering in a pound. Or a family all excited and going out in the car somewhere fun like the beach while their dog cries in the backyard for a single pat. We need people to make the link between meeting the basic needs of an animal and ensuring they understand they cost money and your time and they grow up and might live for quite a number of years. It is a responsibility to be taken on out of love, not a burden to shed yourself of. If you feel the latter then get a stuffed toy - not a real pet.

Actually I think that is my new motto - A Responsibility, Not a Burden

[Little Gifts]

YAY STEVE! I love a good shit stir!

[Steve]

So the morons should get smart or suffer the consequences. I have an older sister who is all whoa is me about anything and everything. Hasn't worked a day in 27 years and claims every little thing she can from my taxes. This sister has dumped a dog and a cat over the years. The dog came to me and was a lovely boy who just needed some attention. Cat was dumped in an industrial estate. If she tried that today I would dob her in and let her suffer the consequences. People know right from wrong. Some just choose to ignore it and do whatever the hell they please. Maybe a big fine might actually impact on their self-focussed lives enough to stop them from bothering to try it again.

And someone commented above that animal abuse and child abuse are two totally different things. After working in statutory child protection for over 20 I have to disagree with you. Some issues go hand in hand and I can assure you that if the kids are neglected or being subject to physical abuse/DV then so is the dog. If a parent can't give a shit about the basic needs of their children then I can guarantee you that they care even less about any animals living in the family home. I have not seen any incidences of links between sexual abuse of animals and children in the same household but with sexual abuse often comes physical abuse and/or neglect of children (and in turn any animals at the house). It is all about the absence of compassion for or understanding of the basic needs of other living things.

I really think change has to happen at several levels simultaneously - use of media (inc online media and blogs/FB), public opinion/discussion, education through schools, pounds and tv advertising, cheaper desexing and micro-chipping, making it easier to genuinly rehome, better matching between owner and dog, no emotive sales (ie pet shop windows), making it easier to own a dog (ie renting, exercising locally), better law enforcement. These are my suggestions and some of them are happening right now but on a smaller scale and only locally uncoordinated. I used to think most of this was the RSPCA's role but??????

Some might disagree with shock value tactics but the use of graphic adverts has been proven to have a positive impact on the public. Think in terms of ads about road deaths and the original grim reaper ad for AIDS /HIV. I have these visions in my mind of say a man lovingly washing and waxing his hotted up car whilst out in the back yard sits an emaciated and chained up dog. Or a woman so excited at buying a pair of very expensive shoes but then baulking at the vet in paying a bill for her sick dog. Or even a small child with tears streaming down its face just sitting there by itself with nothing and then a puppy hiding because it is afraid. Or an old person in a nursing home with no visitors and an old dog shivering in a pound. Or a family all excited and going out in the car somewhere fun like the beach while their dog cries in the backyard for a single pat. We need people to make the link between meeting the basic needs of an animal and ensuring they understand they cost money and your time and they grow up and might live for quite a number of years. It is a responsibility to be taken on out of love, not a burden to shed yourself of. If you feel the latter then get a stuffed toy - not a real pet.

Actually I think that is my new motto - A Responsibility, Not a Burden

So do I. Its how to do that most efficiently and effectively with no money that we have to work through

[Quickasyoucan]

Puppy Sniffer I think you might have been referring to me about saying that human abuse and dog abuse are different things.

I probably didn't make it clear, but that's not what I meant, what I meant is that here we are talking about animals, and that to say if we can't sort out human abuse then what hope have we in sorting out animal abuse is kind of self-defeating.

I am aware that when there is a situation of a child at risk there are often (but not always) other types of abuse present, for example drug abuse, so I certainly don't discount that could include neglect of animals, after all as I said earlier I think dog dumpage can have links to socio-economic issues.

I am sure the people who work in child protection still believe there is some hope as otherwise they wouldn't keep trying, I guess I was saying I think the same should be applied to animals.

Sorry this is not practical suggestions but I just wanted to clarify.

[Steve]

Puppy Sniffer I think you might have been referring to me about saying that human abuse and dog abuse are different things.

I probably didn't make it clear, but that's not what I meant, what I meant is that here we are talking about animals, and that to say if we can't sort out human abuse then what hope have we in sorting out animal abuse is kind of self-defeating.

I am aware that when there is a situation of a child at risk there are often (but not always) other types of abuse present, for example drug abuse, so I certainly don't discount that could include neglect of animals, after all as I said earlier I think dog dumpage can have links to socio-economic issues.

I am sure the people who work in child protection still believe there is some hope as otherwise they wouldn't keep trying, I guess I was saying I think the same should be applied to animals.

Sorry this is not practical suggestions but I just wanted to clarify.

Ive done my share in working with child abuse anyway. Right here and right now we have a task and its about stopping animal abuse and making the future better for our dogs so being concerned about what else in society which is rotten will or will not continue isnt our job in this regard.

We all know there will always be idiots who remain on the edge - our job is to find solutions which dont include law changes which bring us as close as possible for the perfect world we envisage for us and our animals. It can be done. There is no such thing as a problem without a solution and as we work together, discuss , debate and participate the solution will come.

[Quickasyoucan]

Puppy Sniffer I think you might have been referring to me about saying that human abuse and dog abuse are different things.

I probably didn't make it clear, but that's not what I meant, what I meant is that here we are talking about animals, and that to say if we can't sort out human abuse then what hope have we in sorting out animal abuse is kind of self-defeating.

I am aware that when there is a situation of a child at risk there are often (but not always) other types of abuse present, for example drug abuse, so I certainly don't discount that could include neglect of animals, after all as I said earlier I think dog dumpage can have links to socio-economic issues.

I am sure the people who work in child protection still believe there is some hope as otherwise they wouldn't keep trying, I guess I was saying I think the same should be applied to animals.

Sorry this is not practical suggestions but I just wanted to clarify. :D

Ive done my share in working with child abuse anyway. Right here and right now we have a task and its about stopping animal abuse and making the future better for our dogs so being concerned about what else in society which is rotten will or will not continue isnt our job in this regard.

We all know there will always be idiots who remain on the edge - our job is to find solutions which dont include law changes which bring us as close as possible for the perfect world we envisage for us and our animals. It can be done. There is no such thing as a problem without a solution and as we work together, discuss , debate and participate the solution will come.

[AmandaJ]

Microchip all pups

License all owners (including breeders) - with photographic 100pts id

Microchips only available (after a bedding in period) for pups and only to those who are licensed breeders - any others are reported.

Maintain a register of owners and transfer of ownership between breeder and owners (tracks ownership changes for council registration)

Any breaches of council dog control bylaws, dumping, surrendering without "trying" - results in loss of owners license - (can't buy any more dogs until certain conditions are met)

Any breeder registering large numbers of pups in a year comes under scrutiny (microchip records can do this)

Any vet treating an animal for a condition considered to be breeding related can have this noted on the register - when more than several problems arise from the same breeder they can be investigated and breeches can result in loss of license.

Just a thought.....

[Gayle.]

I haven't read much of this thread and hardly any of the responses, but the more I think about these subjects.......breeding, selling and care of puppies and dogs, the more I think our society needs to change to accomodate the needs of dogs. At the moment, they seem to be more and more excluded from society......no dogs in shops, no dogs on beaches, no dogs in rentals, no dogs in markets, no dogs in family areas, no dogs in hotels or holiday accomodation.....the list is getting longer and longer.

European countries have a different attitude towards dogs, they are welcome pretty much everywhere and are treasured by society as part of the family....not just by the family that own them but by everyone. I wonder if their dumpage rates are lower. I would love it if Australia had that attitude, cos I reckon a lot of the problems we currently have would barely be heard of.

[Steve]

Microchip all pups

License all owners (including breeders) - with photographic 100pts id

Microchips only available (after a bedding in period) for pups and only to those who are licensed breeders - any others are reported.

Maintain a register of owners and transfer of ownership between breeder and owners (tracks ownership changes for council registration)

Any breaches of council dog control bylaws, dumping, surrendering without "trying" - results in loss of owners license - (can't buy any more dogs until certain conditions are met)

Any breeder registering large numbers of pups in a year comes under scrutiny (microchip records can do this)

Any vet treating an animal for a condition considered to be breeding related can have this noted on the register - when more than several problems arise from the same breeder they can be investigated and breeches can result in loss of license.

Just a thought..... :D

Nup - no new laws.

[Sheridan]

Microchip all pups

License all owners (including breeders) - with photographic 100pts id

Microchips only available (after a bedding in period) for pups and only to those who are licensed breeders - any others are reported.

Maintain a register of owners and transfer of ownership between breeder and owners (tracks ownership changes for council registration)

Any breaches of council dog control bylaws, dumping, surrendering without "trying" - results in loss of owners license - (can't buy any more dogs until certain conditions are met)

Any breeder registering large numbers of pups in a year comes under scrutiny (microchip records can do this)

Any vet treating an animal for a condition considered to be breeding related can have this noted on the register - when more than several problems arise from the same breeder they can be investigated and breeches can result in loss of license.

Just a thought..... :D

Microchip pups/dogs and owners. Link the chips ...

[Steve]

Microchip all pups

License all owners (including breeders) - with photographic 100pts id

Microchips only available (after a bedding in period) for pups and only to those who are licensed breeders - any others are reported.

Maintain a register of owners and transfer of ownership between breeder and owners (tracks ownership changes for council registration)

Any breaches of council dog control bylaws, dumping, surrendering without "trying" - results in loss of owners license - (can't buy any more dogs until certain conditions are met)

Any breeder registering large numbers of pups in a year comes under scrutiny (microchip records can do this)

Any vet treating an animal for a condition considered to be breeding related can have this noted on the register - when more than several problems arise from the same breeder they can be investigated and breeches can result in loss of license.

Just a thought.....

Microchip pups/dogs and owners. Link the chips ...

Actually Ive been yakking on about microchips being a big part of the answer too until someone contacted me a couple of weeks ago to chat as they are mounting a class action against a state government for making chipping compulsory as there is so much evidence it causes cancer. :D

[Sheridan]

Actually Ive been yakking on about microchips being a big part of the answer too until someone contacted me a couple of weeks ago to chat as they are mounting a class action against a state government for making chipping compulsory as there is so much evidence it causes cancer. :D

Much evidence?

[Steve]

Actually Ive been yakking on about microchips being a big part of the answer too until someone contacted me a couple of weeks ago to chat as they are mounting a class action against a state government for making chipping compulsory as there is so much evidence it causes cancer. :D

Much evidence?

Heaps