So Whats The Answer

[poodlefan]

the other thing i think we need is for councils to provide more green spaces where dogs can be walked on and off leash. this is also good for people

eta where people can walk to them with their dogs not drive to them

That would be lovely, but I doubt it would affect dumpage rate.

There are plenty of cities around the world with a low dumpage rate where there is very little open space.

I think it encourages the myth that all dogs need open space to be happy. They don't all need it, many dogs can be exercised on lead, they can be mentally stimulated and trained in a small area. Besides that, many people are happy to drive their dog to a park the same as they are happy to drive to the shop to get a bottle of milk. It isn't a big disincentive.

I would rather the council put more money into educating people on right choice of dog for various lifestyles than purchase more space as a strategy against dumping.

I tend to agree. Most areas don't lack places you can walk a dog, even if its just footpaths. Perhaps the question to ask is why don't people walk their dogs more often.

Time is one - but perhaps if you don't have time to exercise a dog, you really shouldn't own most breeds.

Training is a BIG one - a dog that pulls like a train on lead is not likely to be walked as far or as often as one that doesn't.

Behaviour of other dog owners, the need to pick up after your dog, availability of bins etc - all play a part.

[Steve]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

the other thing i think we need is for councils to provide more green spaces where dogs can be walked on and off leash. this is also good for people

eta where people can walk to them with their dogs not drive to them

That would be lovely, but I doubt it would affect dumpage rate.

There are plenty of cities around the world with a low dumpage rate where there is very little open space.

I think it encourages the myth that all dogs need open space to be happy. They don't all need it, many dogs can be exercised on lead, they can be mentally stimulated and trained in a small area. Besides that, many people are happy to drive their dog to a park the same as they are happy to drive to the shop to get a bottle of milk. It isn't a big disincentive.

I would rather the council put more money into educating people on right choice of dog for various lifestyles than purchase more space as a strategy against dumping.

hmm true, ok scrap that idea

[Souff]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

Can you go and talk to the breeder?

They might have someone waiting for a dog just like yours.

Or did you buy it from a pet shop?

Souff

[espinay2]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

Ok, I am going to say the obvious and say 'call the breeder'. But why doesnt this work now?

In some situations it does and it works well.

In some situations the owner doesnt contact them for various reasons - doesnt think to, doesnt feel they can, has lost contact, cant even remember who they bought their dog from (for whatever reason including losing the paperwork), feels embarrassed.

In some situations the owner does but the breeder is no help

In some wituations it is not possible for various reasons (not purchased directly from the breeder)

What can we do to encourage greater contact so that in these types of situations, the dog has somewhere to go or someone to help, even if it is just to help the dog find a new home without resorting to the 'welfare system'. A dog can be rehomed without being 'dumped'.

IMO the default should always be to contact the breeder.

Edited November 16, 2010 by espinay2

[WreckitWhippet]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

I'm faced with that at the moment and as a breeder, although it may not be my responsibility I feel I have an obligation to the dog, to make sure that it doesn't end up in a pound, dumped or somewhere unsuitable.

The ethical breeders with the resources, contacts and ability will take care of their own but what about all of those dogs who don't come from such a source ?

[poodlefan]

Steve the thing that hits me about these threads is that these are discussions that need to be held more widely.

I know that there is an Urban Animal Management conference held periodically but I think that there would be very great value in someone?? providing an opportunity for dog owners, breeders, rescuers, pound managers, councils, vets, trainers, legislators, animal welfare bodies AND researchers etc to get together to determine issues within the dog owning community and to discuss ways of resolving them.

The only thing I can say for certain is that if the answers were easy, we'd have implemented them by now.

IMO this is a dialogue that needs to be broadened and held OFTEN.

[Souff]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

I'm faced with that at the moment and as a breeder, although it may not be my responsibility I feel I have an obligation to the dog, to make sure that it doesn't end up in a pound, dumped or somewhere unsuitable.

The ethical breeders with the resources, contacts and ability will take care of their own but what about all of those dogs who don't come from such a source ?

Once upon a time ..... people used to put ads in the paper "Good home wanted".

Must admit I don't read classifieds these days and this is probably the same for most people.

There is probably already a website called "Good Homes Wanted" .....

Souff

[WreckitWhippet]

remove the stigma attached to rehoming a dog., not to make it easier but to encourage owners to talk to pounds, rescue, their vet, breeder or anyone else that might be able to help. Just being able to talk to someone might help those who have a problem to find a solution.

of course there will still be a-holes in the world who simply dump their dogs but I think there are those who genuinely can't cope , find themselves in over their heads and have made the wrong choices when it comes to their pets

[Quickasyoucan]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

But I wouldn't classify the last one as dumping, I would classify that as hardship, and in the event, there ought to be a hardship fund of some sort (I know PACERs often is called in to step in in these cases) or at the very least some sort of rehoming service.

No-one can definitively say that they won't be affected by a life changing event that makes them unable to keep a pet.

But this situation is miles away from teh top ten of dumping reasons such as:

I had a human kid and I don't want the dog anymore.

I am going on an extended holiday.

I don't have time for the dog any more.

etc etc

These are people's choices that lead them to dump a dog, not hardship that has been forced upon them.

Having read the $30,000 fine thing above, I think that should be part of a national RSPCA television campaign, make people aware of the law (especially in the lead up to xmas).

[Quickasyoucan]

O.K. But there is one issue here that also needs to be addressed . What if I research the breed, or consider my lifestyle and I muck it up and the dog is horrible to live with. What if I have been an idiot and bought the dog on impulse and I hate it. What if its making my life a misery,i am moving overseas, if I am too poor now to feed it after a life changing event which isnt looking like its getting any better, what if I have to loose the dog to get a roof over my kids heads?

But I wouldn't classify the last one as dumping, I would classify that as hardship, and in the event, there ought to be a hardship fund of some sort (I know PACERs often is called in to step in in these cases) or at the very least some sort of rehoming service.

No-one can definitively say that they won't be affected by a life changing event that makes them unable to keep a pet.

But this situation is miles away from teh top ten of dumping reasons such as:

I had a human kid and I don't want the dog anymore.

I am going on an extended holiday.

I don't have time for the dog any more.

etc etc

These are people's choices that lead them to dump a dog, not hardship that has been forced upon them.

Having read the $30,000 fine thing above, I think that should be part of a national RSPCA television campaign, make people aware of the law (especially in the lead up to xmas).

ETA: I would be personally happy to go round enforcing existing microchipping laws, if such a job existed. Makes it so much easier to be unaccountable if the dog is not identifiable as belonging to someone.

Same as enforcing leash laws, they are so basic and yet they are not enforced.

[poodlefan]

Greytmate:

There are plenty of cities around the world with a low dumpage rate where there is very little open space.

Has anyone/everyone seen the new Petcare Advisory Service (who are these guys because they've been around a looong time) Pets in the City Website? It looks to have some really great information on it.

I'd never heard of it before reading about it on the November Dogs NSW Journal.

[Steve]

Steve the thing that hits me about these threads is that these are discussions that need to be held more widely.

I know that there is an Urban Animal Management conference held periodically but I think that there would be very great value in someone?? providing an opportunity for dog owners, breeders, rescuers, pound managers, councils, vets, trainers, legislators, animal welfare bodies AND researchers etc to get together to determine issues within the dog owning community and to discuss ways of resolving them.

The only thing I can say for certain is that if the answers were easy, we'd have implemented them by now.

IMO this is a dialogue that needs to be broadened and held OFTEN.

Yes to a point I agree but you have to start somewhere and I know its not easy but I do think its going to take something [or somethings to be precise] differently.

Lots of stuff that's going on not just in this country but others too is based on crap - crap that we as a society have been fed and we have assumed the causes and followed the usual methods of approaching these things.

These discussions serve several purposes but one of them is in educating people and pushing us all to open our minds and really ask questions about whether or not what we have been told and think we know is in fact the case or the whole story.

the MDBA now has a strategist on board and part of the planning is how best to go about doing exactly as you have suggested but Im not interested any longer in slotting in at the end of the line as a token participant with the others wallowing in their arrogance and hidden agendas. Im not up for working with anyone who doesnt have the best interests of the dogs at heart over and above any other thing they plug.

[Nic.B]

There are some great suggestions!

I am running in and out today though will try and read through it all later.

I agree re how difficult it can be to find rental pet friendly accomodation. I will try to find a link though there are a group of young Lawers called "Bleats" who are trying to help in this regard.

I really think that councils can also be doing a lot more education and promotion. They can add things to their websites, put educational info into rates notices, hold awareness days, training days, pet care days etc.

I love this http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=14291

I think it is fantastic and wish people had more access to this sort of info.

I read something (might have been a short video? from the US or UK) here on DOL ages ago about a service provided by volunteers where people surrendering their dogs spoke with a welfare volunteer prior to surrender to see if they could find ways to assist people in addressing the issues, allowing them to keep their pet. It was working well I believe.

What I would like to know is why, year after year there are classic dumpage periods. They happen year in, year out.

Christmas is nothing short of a nightmare, I have never seen so many dogs it's mind blowing.

Add to that, many rescuers are taking a much needed break themselves, volunteers are also often away and often Staff are taking leave in shelters, so there are staff shortages as well.

[poochmad]

I think another problem with dumping dogs is that it is too easy to get one.

For example: Joe Bloggs buys a puppy (and let's face it most puppies are adorable, but we know what hard work they are) and maybe gets through the hard part until it reaches the teenage phase where life really gets 'interesting'and dumps it becuase it is either barking like mad, being destructive or is no longer cute. Then Joe (who 'loves' dogs) wants another, so he either goes through the papers, or goes to the pound or t a pet shop...and the circle starts again.

[Little Gifts]

Social change is always the hardest part. We live in a fairly tolerant and socially just society yet we still have crime, stupidity and ignorance. Most normal people would not consider child abuse acceptable yet it still happens in increasing numbers every single year. One of your neighbours or someone you know may even be guilty of harming a child. So what chance do we have when it comes to animals?

I think we, the people passionate about the issue can immediately:

1. encourage adherance to existing laws by all pet owners we come in to contact with

2. EXPECT that the agencies currently responsible for enforcing these laws do so

3. Live as role models for good pet ownership

4. Share our knowledge about good pet ownership in a constructive way (with the laws picking up the true criminals) particularly if you are a registered breeder or legitimate rescue group

5. Continue to be passionate and compassionate about the issue whether that makes us friends or enemies

6. Have a voice when the time is right.

Social change is slow and it is about setting standards for others to identify and aspire to. So many people don't know any differently. Some people just don't give a shit. I want to live in a society that doesn't tolerate either. Responsibility happens at every level of our lives and owning a pet should be no different. In some council areas you can now get fined for not keeping your yard tidy. You get fined for parking too long in the one spot. You are expected to dress, speak and act a certain way in your workplace. You can't go into a shop and take a packet of chewing gum without paying for it. But you can starve your pet, dump it and get away with it? Why? Why are we so gutless to say that is not acceptable in our community/country?

I wonder what the RSPCA would do if we started fund raising and putting out media messages of our own, saturating wherever we could across the country for change? Are we scared of doing this or of giving mixed messages or looking like radical activists? Should that matter?

Just putting the idea out there because we still have free speech in this country and we seem to be afraid of hurting someone else's feelings by using it.

[The Spotted Devil]

Greytmate:

There are plenty of cities around the world with a low dumpage rate where there is very little open space.

Has anyone/everyone seen the new Petcare Advisory Service (who are these guys because they've been around a looong time) Pets in the City Website? It looks to have some really great information on it.

I'd never heard of it before reading about it on the November Dogs NSW Journal.

The main website is PetNet. They have been around for a while, are sponsored by Mars Pet Foods, but have their own charter. I have participated in one of their PetNet TV episodes and have a member on my PhD advisory committee. Obviously I think it's great that they engage with animal welfare scientists as well as the general public!

[shortstep]

YEs, the rental thing is huge! WHy is it OK OS but not here, to rent with animals?

It is not just rentals it is almost everything.

Having traveled with and without dogs and lived OS with dogs, I find Australia to be the most dog unfreindly, I might even considering saying dog hostile country I have ever been in.

Normal things in other countries are difficult here. Can't find even a crap motel or hotel to allow a dog even if kept in a crate, not the case overseas and the better the place the more they try to pamper your pet. Shires making parks and town main streets off limits, and try finding a beach. Not the case OS, dogs are every where you go, it is part of life to take your dog with you. Dogs routinely go on trains, buses, taxies, carry on if small on to planes, even in pubs, outside cafes, parks, waterfronts, street fairs, everywhere you go you meet and see dogs. I also think but cannot prove that more dogs live outside in Australia than in the western coutries I have been in.

It has to have an impact on how people in general feel about dogs. After all if they are not welcome almost everywhere we go, why would anyone think they are valued special loved members of our families or society in general.

[~Anne~]

remove the stigma attached to rehoming a dog., not to make it easier but to encourage owners to talk to pounds, rescue, their vet, breeder or anyone else that might be able to help. Just being able to talk to someone might help those who have a problem to find a solution.

of course there will still be a-holes in the world who simply dump their dogs but I think there are those who genuinely can't cope , find themselves in over their heads and have made the wrong choices when it comes to their pets

Yes please! What an incredibly smart and sensible collection of statements.

I am dumbfounded the way people are attacked for having a need to re-home their dog.

I often found myself discussing at length the pros and cons of surrendering a Pug. I have been able to work with some owners to find a solution for the issue that has seen them get to the point of calling me to surrender the dog. I wish more would have called me earlier. I wish I could have helped those who were devastated at having to give up their dog, but sometimes there is no other option.

There will be, and was, the owners who should never have had a Pug in the first place, but many were everyday responsible people who thought they were up against a rock and a hard place.

Yes to a point I agree but you have to start somewhere and I know its not easy but I do think its going to take something [or somethings to be precise] differently.

Lots of stuff that's going on not just in this country but others too is based on crap - crap that we as a society have been fed and we have assumed the causes and followed the usual methods of approaching these things.These discussions serve several purposes but one of them is in educating people and pushing us all to open our minds and really ask questions about whether or not what we have been told and think we know is in fact the case or the whole story.

the MDBA now has a strategist on board and part of the planning is how best to go about doing exactly as you have suggested but Im not interested any longer in slotting in at the end of the line as a token participant with the others wallowing in their arrogance and hidden agendas. Im not up for working with anyone who doesnt have the best interests of the dogs at heart over and above any other thing they plug.

Totally agree. My comments in the last few threads have been aimed at the same thing. We keep hearing the same things and we follow through on them without actually thinking about it for ourselves and finding out IF these things we believe are actually fact or fiction.

[Quickasyoucan]

remove the stigma attached to rehoming a dog., not to make it easier but to encourage owners to talk to pounds, rescue, their vet, breeder or anyone else that might be able to help. Just being able to talk to someone might help those who have a problem to find a solution.

of course there will still be a-holes in the world who simply dump their dogs but I think there are those who genuinely can't cope , find themselves in over their heads and have made the wrong choices when it comes to their pets

I agree with the above and have bolded the bit above because I think that a lot of people (myself included at times) tend to be a bit disheartened by that, plus you get statements about how humans don't even look after kids etc, but we are not talking about children here so I don't think the comparison is necessary of benefit.

What's more I don't think that is a reason to stop trying regarding dog dumpage.

For example I would bet that drink driving campaigns mean that a lot less people drink and drive than used to 20 years ago. Of course there are still many idiots who do - you cannot expect to change everyone, but for every one person whose attitude changes that is a positive step forward.

I think a lot of us try to do our bit by educating people at work who are thinking of buying dogs, helping out friends and family members and generally pushing responsible dog ownership, but I for one would be happy to be part of something more coordinated.