So Whats The Answer

[Steve]

I will fight you on compliance and licencing but...

What about mobile desexing, subsidised desexing and subsidised dog training ?

The whole training thing probably is going to need another thread of its own but there are some things that need to be discussed here too.

In Wagga Wagga for example about 2 years ago I attended a meeting with Wagga City Council regarding their animal management plans and they told me there was only two trainers in this area - I tried to prove them wrong but couldnt. Wagga has a population of around $55000 people ! The two trainers operate in a way which would not enable the council rangers who had people they may be able to help with training To better manage their dogs to recommend them to. So if we developed a plan to push people more toward trainers - do we have enough trainers to cover that?

Wagga has a dog training club - did they not remember that?

It would probably be amazing what could be accomplished with some dedicated ground in regional towns and a government grant.

Agree on the need for information gathering - raised it in Part 1 of these threads. I have another question to ask surrendering owners - what would have to change for you to keep this dog?

Yes Wagga has a dog training club but cant handle the sort of things needed.

Since we have been doing Pacers we have prevented approx 400 dogs from being dumped and even though Im the first to admit that we need to know who is breeding them and where they are coming from that may be a bit of a smoke screen set up due to constant bleeps about pet shops and puppy farms - at the end of the day if someone wants to dump their dogs they are going to do it. Also in any stats you would expect that the numbers will be higher for the group that breeds or places the most even if they are doing everything right - so in the end where will it take us?

Edited November 15, 2010 by Steve

[Cosmolo]

Few issues with the training side of things-

Firstly, many councils are not allowed to support businesses. I have a family member who is in charge of a large councils animal management department who has told us he cannot provide our details to anyone because they are not allowed to support business. Hence- if they have a dog with a barking issue etc, that owner will not be provided with training details.

Going to obedience training won't deal with some of the issues that result in surrender- jumping fences, excessive barking, destructive behaviour all need to be dealt with privately for the best results. People are already ready to give up so if they went to a few weeks of group training that didn't cover their relevant issues, its pretty unlikely they would keep going.

Training still relies on owner committment- no owner committment, no training improvements and the phrase "i tried training and it didn't work" comes into play

To answer your question- yes we have enough trainers. BUT we have alot of different types of trainers and training and IMO i think people should be provided with all options and allowed to choose, not required to go to XYZ dog training club for example. Councils, pet shops, breeders can all be part of providing training information to dog owners and this is one thing that does not happen at the moment in many cases.

[Monah]

agree with PF and JB.

I dont have an answer. In this area dog and cat dumpage is massive.

The area is very low socio economic and to leave animals at refuges costs about $10 which is nothing... but this is enough to cause animals being thrown in the scrub. lack of money also puts people off desexing etc.

re education, it is very common here for people to believe having litters of puppies and kittens are great , disposable etc.

people who train their dogs are thought of as eccentric dog people..

there are many in the community trying to clean up the messes of thousand of other people.

How do we educate and cut costs like desexing?

IMO animal problems are a community problem and councils need to help fund desexing programs and education programs etc. Our rates are well over $2,000 and I'd love a few dollars of that to go toward fixing the pet problems in the area.

Fines and release fines definitely are not working. so many owners dont care if their dog is picked up and have no intention of paying for release.

Nursing and retirement homes need to explore pet ownership policies too. I've lost count of the hundreds of pets surrendered by poor seniors entering these places or their families who refuse to take responsibility for 'nannas dog or cat'

[Greytmate]

Recently I have seen some retirement places advertising that they allow people to bring pets because PETS ARE IMPORTANT.

Nearly fell off my chair.

[poodlefan]

Recently I have seen some retirement places advertising that they allow people to bring pets because PETS ARE IMPORTANT.

Nearly fell off my chair.

The market is adjusting to demand.

[deerhound owner]

Improving the availability of rental properties that accept pets would also help I think. I'm not sure how you would go about it though. Prehaps there needs to be a company like the defence housing one where people buy investment properties for people in the defence force with guarenteed income and all that. Are there any millionaires out there wanting to set up a investment properties for people with pets company? It's certainly a high demand market you would just need some level of assurance for the buyers that the place wasn't going to be trashed. Finding pet friendly strata would also be an issue.

Edited November 15, 2010 by deerhound owner

[WreckitWhippet]

just some random thoughts but there seems to be dogs that are

"dumped" dropped off on the side of a road, chucked in the river or whatever

" dumped" in the night pens of pounds/shelter

"surrendered" due to changes in housing, moving to nursing home, retirement, apartment whatever

"surrendered" due to behavioural issues, not meeting expectations

"failure to collect" from a pound or a shelter

"cannot be reunited" no chip or up to date contact details

there's not a one size fits all solution

[Steve]

Few issues with the training side of things-

Firstly, many councils are not allowed to support businesses. I have a family member who is in charge of a large councils animal management department who has told us he cannot provide our details to anyone because they are not allowed to support business. Hence- if they have a dog with a barking issue etc, that owner will not be provided with training details.

Going to obedience training won't deal with some of the issues that result in surrender- jumping fences, excessive barking, destructive behaviour all need to be dealt with privately for the best results. People are already ready to give up so if they went to a few weeks of group training that didn't cover their relevant issues, its pretty unlikely they would keep going.

Training still relies on owner committment- no owner committment, no training improvements and the phrase "i tried training and it didn't work" comes into play

To answer your question- yes we have enough trainers. BUT we have alot of different types of trainers and training and IMO i think people should be provided with all options and allowed to choose, not required to go to XYZ dog training club for example. Councils, pet shops, breeders can all be part of providing training information to dog owners and this is one thing that does not happen at the moment in many cases.

They cant promote your business over any other which is providing the same or similar but they can refer them to trainers and give them a list of trainers in the area and their contact numbers.

So given there are to be given all options and allowed to choose - how do we get them the info and promote you guys to be a necessary service rather than a luxury?

[Steve]

Improving the availability of rental properties that accept pets would also help I think. I'm not sure how you would go about it though. Prehaps there needs to be a company like the defence housing one where people buy investment properties for people in the defence force with guarenteed income and all that. Are there any millionaires out there wanting to set up a investment properties for people with pets company? It's certainly a high demand market you would just need some level of assurance for the buyers that the place wasn't going to be trashed. Finding pet friendly strata would also be an issue.

This is a huge part of it - in fact its a major part of what we have had to do with Pacers. Peopel who need us to foster their dogs until they can find pet friendly accommodation.

I had one this morning who had a renatl all ready to move into and at the last minute the owner said no to her cat - because she had alreeady been approved she gave notice and new tenants are moving in - now she is homeless and needs to find somewhere to move with or without the cat if she is to live anywhere!

No wonder tenants tell lies.

[Cosmolo]

Nope- they can't even do that Steve. They can't give ours or any others or a list of every one available in the area. Council policy. And this is a major Melbourne council.

I am not sure how to get the ongoing committment that is required. It is scary to think sometimes that when people attend puppy schools- that is them at their most committed- it usually drops away after that and i know many trainers who say the same thing- that its hard to get people to do more than a short puppy pre school.. Will have to give that some thought as i am not sure how to overcome that.

[Monah]

YEs, the rental thing is huge! WHy is it OK OS but not here, to rent with animals?

[poodlefan]

Nope- they can't even do that Steve. They can't give ours or any others or a list of every one available in the area. Council policy. And this is a major Melbourne council.

I am not sure how to get the ongoing committment that is required. It is scary to think sometimes that when people attend puppy schools- that is them at their most committed- it usually drops away after that and i know many trainers who say the same thing- that its hard to get people to do more than a short puppy pre school.. Will have to give that some thought as i am not sure how to overcome that.

You have to tick the "what in it for me" box with handlers. Not quite sure how you do that.

[Quickasyoucan]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have.

Why is Canberra so sensible compared to the rest of Australia

Sorry that's not very helpful.

I agree with RSG we need to find who to target.

I think also there is still this view that dogs are disposable, don't like the one you have, well get rid of it and get another.

People definitely need educating. A friend of mine found 2 stray poodle xs wandering near her place over the weekend. Finally managed to get in contact with the owners and they apparenltly live only a few doors down across the road. The owner says they keep digging the yard up and getting out. My friend says how much exercise do they get - dogs are 9 months and 12 months old.

Owners says we don't have the time to walk them we work full time and have 3 kids. That story is either going to end on the main road or at the pound.

People need to be made aware of the commitment of buying dogs, they need to buy dogs that are suited to their needs or not buy dogs at all if they really cannot afford even basic vet bills (and how many times to people come on here and say they can't afford something relatively small), do not have the time to exercise and provide basic obedience.

Maybe there should be some sort of "product disclosure statement" that is given to every potential puppy buyer so that they are clearly made aware of what the requirements are.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Quickasyoucan

[Steve]

Nope- they can't even do that Steve. They can't give ours or any others or a list of every one available in the area. Council policy. And this is a major Melbourne council.

I am not sure how to get the ongoing committment that is required. It is scary to think sometimes that when people attend puppy schools- that is them at their most committed- it usually drops away after that and i know many trainers who say the same thing- that its hard to get people to do more than a short puppy pre school.. Will have to give that some thought as i am not sure how to overcome that.

O.K. Not good enough - we will start here. Name of the shire and I will start on them.

[poodlefan]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have.

Why is Canberra so sensible compared to the rest of Australia

You really want me to answer that?

Between you, me and the gate post I think education levels (ACT has highest in Australia) have a bit to do with it but I expect the issue is more far more complex than that.

[Little Gifts]

They were talking on the radio this morning about all children should know how to swim and that it should be taught at schools. I think animal care should also be taught at schools. I remember when my friends were always bringing the kindy bird or other kind of pet home to look after it on the weekend. But after kindy what? Caring for another living thing is something that would help kids grow up with more compassion and understanding. How many parents complain the kid wanted the dog but never looks after it? How many dogs get dumped because the kids left home and left the unwanted dog behind? This is an area we can have some impact on for the future and it may also curb animal abuse as well as abandonment.

I agree that there is a need to assist the elderly to keep their pets. The same can be said for people escaping domestic violence (and I know there is some work around that happening in QLD). But I see an even bigger issue here in the govt agency where I work - landlords who wont let people have pets. I think some education needs to happen here as a lot of these landlords would have pets of their own but they don't want their tenants to have them. Even social housing (the old Housing Commission) allows pets! If a property is legally able to have pets then the issue should be about the tenants and their dogs adequate care of the house and property. We need more pet friendly rentals across the nation but I am more for public education than subsidising this.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Few issues with the training side of things-

Firstly, many councils are not allowed to support businesses. I have a family member who is in charge of a large councils animal management department who has told us he cannot provide our details to anyone because they are not allowed to support business. Hence- if they have a dog with a barking issue etc, that owner will not be provided with training details.

Going to obedience training won't deal with some of the issues that result in surrender- jumping fences, excessive barking, destructive behaviour all need to be dealt with privately for the best results. People are already ready to give up so if they went to a few weeks of group training that didn't cover their relevant issues, its pretty unlikely they would keep going.

Training still relies on owner committment- no owner committment, no training improvements and the phrase "i tried training and it didn't work" comes into play

To answer your question- yes we have enough trainers. BUT we have alot of different types of trainers and training and IMO i think people should be provided with all options and allowed to choose, not required to go to XYZ dog training club for example. Councils, pet shops, breeders can all be part of providing training information to dog owners and this is one thing that does not happen at the moment in many cases.

They cant promote your business over any other which is providing the same or similar but they can refer them to trainers and give them a list of trainers in the area and their contact numbers.

So given there are to be given all options and allowed to choose - how do we get them the info and promote you guys to be a necessary service rather than a luxury?

yes at my local council there is a wall with pamphlets that they have referred me to which covers a lot of services.

we could get a pamphlet on dog trainers/clubs in the area and they could even be posted out with the rego renewal letter the council sends

[Monah]

A doler and I were only saying this about ACT on the weekend.

Training programs are a great idea.

Unfortunately here in the Wide Bay area where we are fairly uneducated and outnumbered by ferals, even getting a person to training would be a miracle

How do we change the 'throw away' society, self absorbed society, want it NOW society, not my problem etc???

[Monah]

I'm currently doing newsletters/pamphlets for a rescue/fostering org here and am really interested iin everyones ideas.

[Souff]

1, EDUCATION through all available media

2. GAOL SENTENCES and a $5000 fine for anyone caught dumping/abandoning animals.

Yes, I know a lot wont get caught and then wont get sentenced, but if you don't put fear into people's minds, you might not as well not write the laws in the first place.

Fear is a powerful deterrent.

Souff