So Whats The Answer

[Steve]

Same again.- No new laws. What strategies could we put in place which may have a bit of an impact on dog dumpage and euthanasia rates in this country.

Think outside the square because what has already been done is pretty much a bomb.

Julie

[~Anne~]

Change community attitudes through education and social marketing.

Bring knowledge to the sellers and the buyers. Change behaviours.

[poodlefan]

Some ideas:

Mobile free desexing clinics. Taking the vets out into the community does seem to encourage people to have their dogs desexed.

A cooling off period on surrender that allowed for a free visit from a dog trainer before dog can be left at pound (exception for serious aggression/safety issues). If nothing else, it would allow for good data gathering on what the real situation with the dog was. The downside would be dogs might be dumped elsewhere.

Owner licensing with a compulsory education component. Think of the "stay upright" motorcycle course equivalent. A couple of hours training on an evening or a weekend on the importance of breed selection, socialisation, training, desexing etc might address some of the issues that arise from sheer ignorance.

[Cosmolo]

At the NDN conference, one of the speakers was describing the process they go through when an animal is surrendered. They provide the surrending owner with an invoice- detailing every cost associated with rehoming that animal. Of course most people don't pay it but the idea is that it makes them aware of the costs involved and it provides some understanding of the responsibility involved.

Personally i also think that some shelters/ pounds are almost 'too nice' to people surrendering their animals- "Yes of course we will find Fluffy a new home" while re assuring is A) not always true and B) allows people to leave feeling absolutely fine. I much prefer the realistic, though somewhat upsetting approach. "If Fluffy passes his behaviour assessment and if Fluffy passes his health check and IF someone wishes to adopt him within XYZ time frame- then yes, Fluffy may find a new home.

The counter arguement to that though is that (A) make it too difficult and they dump their dogs elsewhere (B) You have to be careful about when you tak about Behaviour assessments- do it before they complete a surrender form and then you're likely to get a surrender form full of lies © Shelter/ pound staff deal with enough agro from some of the public and don't want to in any way 'incite' more. (D) Many shelter staff can't then switch from this kind of attitude to the helpful friendly, soft one that people wanting to adopt would like.

It does need to be made more difficult- but how do you do that without new law? Wasting water campaigns have done it pretty well- its socially unacceptable in most parts of Aus to hose off your driveway. In theory we could do the same thing with pet surrender- but who is going to pay for it and organise it so that it penetrates every element of community? And does it need to be supported by law in the same way water restrictions etc are?

What do we do with the element of society that don't listen and don't care about what is or isn't socially acceptable?

ETA- i like the colling off period/ visit from dog trainer. But how would it be funded and how would compliance be encouraged?

Edited November 15, 2010 by Cosmolo

[karly101]

Support for older people who would like to keep their much loved companion - feeding/grooming/walking could all be done through a volunteer based program.

A program that encourages people to pick the right breed for them- free seminars/computer programs (already exist), all needs to be marketed better and BEFORE people get their dog! At the vet clinic time and time again we see people who have picked the wrong breed, it would be great if they came in and asked us for advice before they got the puppy. The kennel councils should be doing this, promoting purebreds and helping people choose the right breed. Shelters also need to improve their adoption services as well with informing people what the different breeds are like and making sure that the breed choice is correct.

Support for people who are having financial issues in regards to vet bills, we have had a few clients who have had to give up animals or euthanase simply because they can't afford to treat, Lort Smith used to provide this support but no longer, they also require a large sum of deposit money. For people who are really experiencing sudden (and generally it is short term) financial issues there should be better support so they don't have to give up their pet as well.

But from being at RSPCA the most common reasons for surrendering were -

'Go a new pet, old one does not like' - dumping the older animal for newer one

'Moving to rental'

'No time'

'Moving'

'Allergies'

I'm not sure how to overcome those issues.

[Steve]

I will fight you on compliance and licencing but...

What about mobile desexing, subsidised desexing and subsidised dog training ?

The whole training thing probably is going to need another thread of its own but there are some things that need to be discussed here too.

In Wagga Wagga for example about 2 years ago I attended a meeting with Wagga City Council regarding their animal management plans and they told me there was only two trainers in this area - I tried to prove them wrong but couldnt. Wagga has a population of around $55000 people ! The two trainers operate in a way which would not enable the council rangers who had people they may be able to help with training To better manage their dogs to recommend them to. So if we developed a plan to push people more toward trainers - do we have enough trainers to cover that?

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't think you can tackle that problem head on, without knowing where the dogs are coming from, who is breeding them, who is selling them and why the are failing to remain in their homes or to be collected from pounds if they end up there .

I think the community desexing programs, pet education, raising awareness and media campaings can only be effective if you know WHO to target.

[BJean]

Same again.- No new laws. What strategies could we put in place which may have a bit of an impact on dog dumpage and euthanasia rates in this country.

Think outside the square because what has already been done is pretty much a bomb.

Julie

In general I think if people get treated better, animals will get treated better.

Want to stop animal dumpage?

Maybe we should stop grandparent dumpage, kid dumpage

kicking people out of their homes ...

you want peeople to value the life of a dog

while human lives are not valued.

So its always the same ... resort to more laws

there isn't enough innate sensibility amongst the population it woudl seem ...

Not a remotely helpful response from me, but I find it hard to expect that anything 'to help' will not result in more laws

because most of those that care [sic] have a big stick in their hand and they want everyone to see the world from their enlightened point of view

So yep my solution if I want to keep dogs and not be told what to do by a martyr activist whose owned oh maybe 1 dog and 40 foster dogs with a combined brain capacity the size of a pea:

move my dogs offshore.

omg and that's not even the topic!

sorry steve, hope you get some good solutions

PS: fwiw dumpage rates correlate with the economic climate.

see RSPCA's stats for the 1990s recession.

there's also less dogs being dumped now than before anyway.

Edited November 15, 2010 by lilli

[~Anne~]

I don't think you can tackle that problem head on, without knowing where the dogs are coming from, who is breeding them, who is selling them and why the are failing to remain in their homes or to be collected from pounds if they end up there .

I think the community desexing programs, pet education, raising awareness and media campaings can only be effective if you know WHO to target.

Totally agree.

[poodlefan]

I will fight you on compliance and licencing but...

What about mobile desexing, subsidised desexing and subsidised dog training ?

The whole training thing probably is going to need another thread of its own but there are some things that need to be discussed here too.

In Wagga Wagga for example about 2 years ago I attended a meeting with Wagga City Council regarding their animal management plans and they told me there was only two trainers in this area - I tried to prove them wrong but couldnt. Wagga has a population of around $55000 people ! The two trainers operate in a way which would not enable the council rangers who had people they may be able to help with training To better manage their dogs to recommend them to. So if we developed a plan to push people more toward trainers - do we have enough trainers to cover that?

Wagga has a dog training club - did they not remember that?

It would probably be amazing what could be accomplished with some dedicated ground in regional towns and a government grant.

Agree on the need for information gathering - raised it in Part 1 of these threads. I have another question to ask surrendering owners - what would have to change for you to keep this dog?

Edited November 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Some ideas:

Mobile free desexing clinics. Taking the vets out into the community does seem to encourage people to have their dogs desexed.

A cooling off period on surrender that allowed for a free visit from a dog trainer before dog can be left at pound (exception for serious aggression/safety issues). If nothing else, it would allow for good data gathering on what the real situation with the dog was. The downside would be dogs might be dumped elsewhere.

Owner licensing with a compulsory education component. Think of the "stay upright" motorcycle course equivalent. A couple of hours training on an evening or a weekend on the importance of breed selection, socialisation, training, desexing etc might address some of the issues that arise from sheer ignorance.

i like those ideas PF

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't think you can tackle that problem head on, without knowing where the dogs are coming from, who is breeding them, who is selling them and why the are failing to remain in their homes or to be collected from pounds if they end up there .

I think the community desexing programs, pet education, raising awareness and media campaings can only be effective if you know WHO to target.

Totally agree.

I think if we can work out where they are coming from and why they are ending up there. It may also help to clear up or solve some of the other issues, such as the sale of puppies from pet shops.

It could well be that the % of dogs sold by pet shops, is only a fraction of the total number and if that's the case, some of the objections to pet shop sales, will be blown out of the water.

I see all of the questions raised so far by Steve, have common concerns and issues and we can't solve one without looking at the picture as a whole. Increased legisalation is not going to be the answer, for any or all of the issues.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

[poodlefan]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have.

[whiskedaway]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

Agreed. My obedience club is fantastic for me because I want to trial one day, but I know of a few people who find it boring because they're not interested in that and just want a well behaved dog. We're lucky because in our area there are a few council run classes that do cater for that.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i took my dog to obedience classes but i think they could be changed a bit for people who simply want a well behaved dog and not a dog who trials.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have.

that is great news. i think if this happens then more pet owners would use the club and hopefully have a stronger bond with their dogs

[Greytmate]

Same again.- No new laws. What strategies could we put in place which may have a bit of an impact on dog dumpage and euthanasia rates in this country.

Think outside the square because what has already been done is pretty much a bomb.

Julie

People dump dogs that don't meet expectations.

There will always have a high dumpage rate until we improve the way that dogs are placed in homes, and that goes back to the way dogs are marketed and sold, and the back-up service and advice offered.

Euthanasia rates are a completely different thing, and are being reduced by different shelters in different ways. AWL QLD has a Zero rate at times, whatever that means. Has nothing much to do with dumpage though.

Then there is the euthanasia rate of sub-standard dogs. The ones that are left out of all statistics, because they truly are unwanted by anyone at all. Improving the way that people breed and raise dogs is the only way of reducing numbers in this category.

[Rusky]

some people won't listen

I had a 2 yr old small breed for adoption. I refused a family and explained the resons why. I told them in view of their age that I would call them when an older dog of the same breed came into care. They weren't happy but when I am 84 I am sure I will be very happy with an old dog. I got a call a few weeks later from the same people, they had bought from the newspaper a young dog and couldn't manage. The young dog is now with SAFE Perth and looking forward to life with a young energetic family.

This is just an example but most dogs which are surrendered are for people going into care, a new baby, a house move, a new partner who doesn't like dogs and the usual behaviour problems, jumping barking etc.

So what is the answer ? I have no ruddy idea. My own dog was being PTS because he peed everytime someone went near him, he was actually a serial barker too. He is now confident happy and I rarely hear him bark, if he does I always investigate the cause. Yes it took work and time and these are the two things the people who surrender are not prepared to give to the dog.

Elderly people going into care are really needy and because of the don't care attitude of others rescues and shelters have to make the heartbreaking decision to turn them away. I have mentioned before the Cinamon trust in the UK which keeps pets with their owners and if they die or go to care they match the animal with another elderly person who has lost their dog/cat. They provide walkers, feeders and groomers who are volunteers to assist the elderly and their pets.

http://www.cinnamon.org.uk/

[Staranais]

Perhaps education for primary or even secondary school kids on picking a dog, caring for a dog, and what happens to dogs that end up and the SPCA or pound.

Most clinics I've been to already subsidise desexing heavily compared to other major surgeries, simply because people expect it to be cheap. But the council further subsidising it for low income owners would be a great idea.

[poodlefan]

Same again.- No new laws. What strategies could we put in place which may have a bit of an impact on dog dumpage and euthanasia rates in this country.

Think outside the square because what has already been done is pretty much a bomb.

Julie

People dump dogs that don't meet expectations.

There will always have a high dumpage rate until we improve the way that dogs are placed in homes, and that goes back to the way dogs are marketed and sold, and the back-up service and advice offered.

We can adjust expectations, add a good dose of informatoni and give people the tools to raise the dog they'd like to own.

I'll give you an example - puppy preschool. A lot of folk have heard of it and attend - given that they're generally bombarded by info about it at their vet, this isn't surprising. But most of us know that baby puppies aren't the most challenging pets to own. Its adolescent dogs that are - they're bigger, they need more exercise and behaviours that might have been tolerated (or even encouraged) in baby puppies suddenly become "problems".

So a new message to spread is "puppy high school". We KNOW that there are a lot of adolescent dogs dumped in pounds. Getting help out to people struggling with such dogs could save many lives.

Edited November 15, 2010 by poodlefan