Dogue De Bordeaux Puppy Purchased Concern

[asal]

So sorry to hear of this predicament but you should have done all this finding out before you purchased the dog.

And how does the regular puppy buyer know to do this?? None of my friends even know of 'registered' or 'papers' 'limited' or 'main register'. It's not common knowledge so for a Joe Blow puppy buyer to go the extra length to sus out the background of the breeder is not the norm either.

I agree with Clyde. Maybe, as part of the "purchase from ethical registered breeders rather from pet [etc] shop campaign" (so to speak) there could be an educational piece prepared on "What to look for in a puppy Breeder", and then advertise it - joint advertisement financed by contributions made by all registered breeders???

One of those items might be "Sight the Breeder's Current [xxx] Certificate" (insert name of certificate/paper/card which verifies breeder's prefix currency and registration with relevant State Body.

???

Just a thought, although probably wrong thread.

although even doing that, is not going to guarantee such can or cannot, happen, days or weeks later.. Can be financial when the puppies are being inspected, but they arent ready yet,, weeks go and..... forget the renewal and bingo expired... simple as that.

thats what worries me, something as simple as overdue and unethical with all its implications is so quickly up on the board.

those who do not see that guilty until proven innocent is so against every persons human rights is anything but what our so called justice system is supposed to work on. why does being a dog breeder or owner strip you of something that is or was supposed to be EVERYONE in australia's right? :D

Edited November 15, 2010 by asal

[asal]

whats wrong with our society now?

laws to tie in knots people like Judy Guard and soo many others, Ruth Downey included to learn they are criminals with no avenue of appeal thats the normal and expected right of the murderer of any homo sapien.

yet because their charges are in relation to animals they are guilty first.

a woman or couple can churn out children by the score n docs do a dreadful job protecting the resulting children which are abused and their abusers are innocent until proven guilty? why are they? children are just as helpless as any dog, cat or pet of whatever species. there is something seriously wrong here? or is it just me being mad, hysterical or even perhaps raving?

[labsrule]

So sorry to hear of this predicament but you should have done all this finding out before you purchased the dog.

And how does the regular puppy buyer know to do this?? None of my friends even know of 'registered' or 'papers' 'limited' or 'main register'. It's not common knowledge so for a Joe Blow puppy buyer to go the extra length to sus out the background of the breeder is not the norm either.

I agree with Clyde. Maybe, as part of the "purchase from ethical registered breeders rather from pet [etc] shop campaign" (so to speak) there could be an educational piece prepared on "What to look for in a puppy Breeder", and then advertise it - joint advertisement financed by contributions made by all registered breeders???

One of those items might be "Sight the Breeder's Current [xxx] Certificate" (insert name of certificate/paper/card which verifies breeder's prefix currency and registration with relevant State Body.

???

Just a thought, although probably wrong thread.

although even doing that, is not going to guarantee such can or cannot, happen, days or weeks later.. Can be financial when the puppies are being inspected, but they arent ready yet,, weeks go and..... forget the renewal and bingo expired... simple as that.

thats what worries me, something as simple as overdue and unethical with all its implications is so quickly up on the board.

those who do not see that guilty until proven innocent is so against every persons human rights is anything but what our so called justice system is supposed to work on. why does being a dog breeder or owner strip you of something that is or was supposed to be EVERYONE in australia's right? :D

Why would a breeder who just bred a litter forget the renewal knowing full well the puppies have to be registered. Why is it that as soon as the OP posts this thread on DOL, the breeder makes contact with the OP, after weeks of ignoring emails, sms and phone calls. I would think that a breeder would be around for the first few weeks after the puppies have gone to their new homes as that this is normally the most crucial time when new puppy buyers would most need their support.

Sorry but I just don't buy the excuses given in this instance and if the OP hadn't raised this thread on DOL, which they are quite entitled to, then who knows if they would have had this issue resolved. I have the utmost respect for ethical and reputable registered breeders who do the right thing, but you have to accept that some breeders unfortunately do not do the right thing by their puppy buyers. It is not a perfect world out there as we all know with some breeders not doing the right thing by their puppy buyers and some puppy buyers not doing the right thing either with their new puppy and/or not fulfilling their promises and agreement with the breeder.

[labsrule]

whats wrong with our society now?

laws to tie in knots people like Judy Guard and soo many others, Ruth Downey included to learn they are criminals with no avenue of appeal thats the normal and expected right of the murderer of any homo sapien.

yet because their charges are in relation to animals they are guilty first.

a woman or couple can churn out children by the score n docs do a dreadful job protecting the resulting children which are abused and their abusers are innocent until proven guilty? why are they? children are just as helpless as any dog, cat or pet of whatever species. there is something seriously wrong here? or is it just me being mad, hysterical or even perhaps raving?

Maybe :D

[asal]

whats wrong with our society now?

laws to tie in knots people like Judy Guard and soo many others, Ruth Downey included to learn they are criminals with no avenue of appeal thats the normal and expected right of the murderer of any homo sapien.

yet because their charges are in relation to animals they are guilty first.

a woman or couple can churn out children by the score n docs do a dreadful job protecting the resulting children which are abused and their abusers are innocent until proven guilty? why are they? children are just as helpless as any dog, cat or pet of whatever species. there is something seriously wrong here? or is it just me being mad, hysterical or even perhaps raving?

Maybe :D

thanks, needed the laugh.

[Jed]

Half of these problems are caused by lack of communication. The puppy buyer is probably doing it for the first time - the breeder for the umpteenth time --- the breeder needs to give the buyer ALL the relevant information.

Give the breeder the benefit of the doubt. She was probably resting up after rearing all those Dogue pups - she probably needed to - and there are breeders who do not pay membership until they have a litter. Particularly those who do not breed a lot, or who actually have a life.

The difference between a good breeder and a top one - as the one labsrule talks about - is that things like this don't happen. They have the experience to know what they have to say to buyers. I have purchased from a few breeders such as the one labsrule is talking about -- never any dramas ... problem is if it is your first registered dog, you can't tell who is a "top" breeder and who isn't. Of course, with those breeders, the waiting list is so long you are the breeder's best friend by the time you get to the top of the list :D

posshut

If a breeder sounds honest and believable (and they must do when selling a pup) people tend to want to trust them. When things go wrong and the breeder ignores all communication then people get worried then angry. While most ofthe replies to puppy buyers concerns are helpful and positive, there is a tendency for some to sound defensive of the breeder and almost blaming the buyer for "not" checking enough or not giving the breeder time to get things right. It only takes a minute to call someone back and reassure them. That's often all the buyer wants and needs.

I agree, I think we could do without some of the defensive posts. However, in 75% of complaints like this there was nothing wrong, except the buyer got bit panicky, and experienced forum members know that. Most of these problems are lack of communication.

Enjoy your new pup!! Dogues are great.

[SpikesPuppy]

I'm more concerned that the breeder was uncontactable for 2 weeks after selling a litter of puppies- those first few days can be so scary, stressful, complicated with a brand new puppy. For eg one of my pups had a reactionto the grass in his new home- the vet wanted to run all these fancy tests!!!! I ha something similar with a pup I purchased myself, tell them to buy a tube of aloe Vera gel and voilà. No more itchy puppy!!!

What if the puppy had gotten sick or just wasn't settling in?? That worries me.

I also showed ppl my DOGSvic card before accepting a deposit.

[labsrule]

Half of these problems are caused by lack of communication. The puppy buyer is probably doing it for the first time - the breeder for the umpteenth time --- the breeder needs to give the buyer ALL the relevant information.

Give the breeder the benefit of the doubt. She was probably resting up after rearing all those Dogue pups - she probably needed to - and there are breeders who do not pay membership until they have a litter. Particularly those who do not breed a lot, or who actually have a life.

The difference between a good breeder and a top one - as the one labsrule talks about - is that things like this don't happen. They have the experience to know what they have to say to buyers. I have purchased from a few breeders such as the one labsrule is talking about -- never any dramas ... problem is if it is your first registered dog, you can't tell who is a "top" breeder and who isn't. Of course, with those breeders, the waiting list is so long you are the breeder's best friend by the time you get to the top of the list

posshut

If a breeder sounds honest and believable (and they must do when selling a pup) people tend to want to trust them. When things go wrong and the breeder ignores all communication then people get worried then angry. While most ofthe replies to puppy buyers concerns are helpful and positive, there is a tendency for some to sound defensive of the breeder and almost blaming the buyer for "not" checking enough or not giving the breeder time to get things right. It only takes a minute to call someone back and reassure them. That's often all the buyer wants and needs.

I agree, I think we could do without some of the defensive posts. However, in 75% of complaints like this there was nothing wrong, except the buyer got bit panicky, and experienced forum members know that. Most of these problems are lack of communication.

Enjoy your new pup!! Dogues are great.

Jed you make some valid points and once again the voice of reason Lack of communication seems to the theme in a number of these type complaints. I don't normally get involved in these type of threads as I am very pro breeder, but sometimes I look at these threads and think why the hell can't the breeder respond to an anxious puppy buyer to alleviate their concerns. Sure missing one phone call or sms or email, we can understand but when there is no response whatsoever in the weeks following the puppy going to its new home causes more anxiety for an already stressed new puppy buyer.

Having got my new lab pup in Dec last year after not having a pup for 10 years, I can fully understand the anxiety that a new puppy buyer must feel and it is exacerbated if they feel like they have been abandoned by their breeder who may have been wonderful up until the puppy went home. In my case this was my 4th lab pup I have raised so I had a fair bit of experience to draw on, but my little fella gave me some anxious moments so I can fully understand how new puppy buyers must feel if for whatever reason they need to contact their breeder and get no response from their breeder, despite multiple phone calls, emails etc. I understand that breeder's need a life and cannot be expected to respond immediately to every form of communication, except in the cases where the new puppy is in trouble. I still have trouble though understanding why a breeder would go on holiday so soon after puppies went to their new homes, when it is the most likely time that the new puppy buyers would need their support. The least they could do is let their puppy buyers know this and provide contact details, particularly for any emergencies that may arise with any of the puppies.

But yeah you are definitely right about the difference between a "good breeder and a top one" - their experience is invaluable.

[poodlemum]

I'm more concerned that the breeder was uncontactable for 2 weeks after selling a litter of puppies- those first few days can be so scary, stressful, complicated with a brand new puppy. For eg one of my pups had a reactionto the grass in his new home- the vet wanted to run all these fancy tests!!!! I ha something similar with a pup I purchased myself, tell them to buy a tube of aloe Vera gel and voilà. No more itchy puppy!!!

What if the puppy had gotten sick or just wasn't settling in?? That worries me.

I also showed ppl my DOGSvic card before accepting a deposit.

That was my point, as well & I totally understand why the OP got a bit nervous! I'm used to getting phone calls from puppy buyers for at least the 1st week after the pups go to their new homes. It's only natural that new owners might be concerned or puzzled by what is perfectly natural behavior by a puppy and need an experienced person to assure them that all's well. Nothing wrong with going on a holiday after raising a litter (I certainly felt like one after my last litter of 11 ) but surely, in these days of mobile phone roaming etc there's no real problem in remaining contactable! AND, if your selling a litter as registered, surely you would make sure that your CC membership is current? I have been a registered breeder for 17 years and have always managed to ensure that my Dogs Victoria membership is current!

[SpikesPuppy]

I'm more concerned that the breeder was uncontactable for 2 weeks after selling a litter of puppies- those first few days can be so scary, stressful, complicated with a brand new puppy. For eg one of my pups had a reactionto the grass in his new home- the vet wanted to run all these fancy tests!!!! I ha something similar with a pup I purchased myself, tell them to buy a tube of aloe Vera gel and voilà. No more itchy puppy!!!

What if the puppy had gotten sick or just wasn't settling in?? That worries me.

I also showed ppl my DOGSvic card before accepting a deposit.

That was my point, as well & I totally understand why the OP got a bit nervous! I'm used to getting phone calls from puppy buyers for at least the 1st week after the pups go to their new homes. It's only natural that new owners might be concerned or puzzled by what is perfectly natural behavior by a puppy and need an experienced person to assure them that all's well. Nothing wrong with going on a holiday after raising a litter (I certainly felt like one after my last litter of 11 ) but surely, in these days of mobile phone roaming etc there's no real problem in remaining contactable! AND, if your selling a litter as registered, surely you would make sure that your CC membership is current? I have been a registered breeder for 17 years and have always managed to ensure that my Dogs Victoria membership is current!

My membership lapsed because they forgot to send me a renewal notice!! It wasn't lost in the mail, they clean forgot! Very annoying. I knew it was due but they for some reason were unable to accept my payment. It was a frustrating experience and took several phone calls to clear up. They didn't want my money?? Lol.

As for going on holidays, my breeder went away for a showing weekend but let me know and gave me contact details for other breeders she trusted in case I had an emergency. I think a little communication goes a long way

[poodlemum]

I'm more concerned that the breeder was uncontactable for 2 weeks after selling a litter of puppies- those first few days can be so scary, stressful, complicated with a brand new puppy. For eg one of my pups had a reactionto the grass in his new home- the vet wanted to run all these fancy tests!!!! I ha something similar with a pup I purchased myself, tell them to buy a tube of aloe Vera gel and voilà. No more itchy puppy!!!

What if the puppy had gotten sick or just wasn't settling in?? That worries me.

I also showed ppl my DOGSvic card before accepting a deposit.

That was my point, as well & I totally understand why the OP got a bit nervous! I'm used to getting phone calls from puppy buyers for at least the 1st week after the pups go to their new homes. It's only natural that new owners might be concerned or puzzled by what is perfectly natural behavior by a puppy and need an experienced person to assure them that all's well. Nothing wrong with going on a holiday after raising a litter (I certainly felt like one after my last litter of 11 ) but surely, in these days of mobile phone roaming etc there's no real problem in remaining contactable! AND, if your selling a litter as registered, surely you would make sure that your CC membership is current? I have been a registered breeder for 17 years and have always managed to ensure that my Dogs Victoria membership is current!

My membership lapsed because they forgot to send me a renewal notice!! It wasn't lost in the mail, they clean forgot! Very annoying. I knew it was due but they for some reason were unable to accept my payment. It was a frustrating experience and took several phone calls to clear up. They didn't want my money?? Lol.

As for going on holidays, my breeder went away for a showing weekend but let me know and gave me contact details for other breeders she trusted in case I had an emergency. I think a little communication goes a long way

Dogs Victoria stuff something up - I don't believe it I sympathise with you - they seem to be the most DISorganised organisation I've ever dealt with.

[ellz]

It is not a perfect world out there as we all know with some breeders not doing the right thing by their puppy buyers and some puppy buyers not doing the right thing either with their new puppy and/or not fulfilling their promises and agreement with the breeder.

Yeah and in a perfect world, even a breeder has "shit happens" moments! Breeders ARE human after all.

I've done the forget my membership bit, a couple of times and yes, on one occasion I only remembered because I was going to register a litter of puppies. I hadn't been showing and the date had completely escaped me. I renewed when I put the litter registration in. Easy!

And my Stafford litter from November didn't get their papers for quite a few weeks after their puppies went home. Why? Because I was slow paying the stud fee and didn't have the signed documentation from the stud dog owner and more importantly because I was choosing MY puppies for ME and the rest were going on Limited Registration and I wanted to take my time.

I guess the big difference is that I was still accessible to my puppy people and I kept them in the loop in the same way that they had been informed during the pregnancy and early puppyhood before their puppies joined their families....at LEAST weekly via email and telephone....leaning more towards the email.

I still don't think that dropping off the radar for two weeks is a prime punishable by Kangaroo Court though, given that the breeder did say the papers could take FOUR weeks!!

And editing to add: Until a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't financial for this year either. But that was a bit different because I really hadn't decided whether or not I was actually GOING to renew it.

Edited November 15, 2010 by ellz

[asal]

try nsw. ive seen some doozies like an entire litter of long coats registered as smoothcoats.??

trotted down to ask whats going on here to be told its all my fault didnt put what coat they were beside the names in the name boxes??

like since when were we supposed to write what coat they are there?? sure aint in the destructions last i looked n there sure isnt a coat column, what i did put was the breed in the breed box and longcoat in brackets beside it which ive always done. except now the puppys names section is on the back of the form..

so what did the girl do? turn the page and hey cant remember what was on the front. so gets told have to pay a fine for every single one of them. since the last time they messed up and fined me then discovered i wasnt in the wrong. the best u can get is a credit slip from em doesnt matter that you paid cash 60 seconds even before they discover your not at fault... no refunds,,, credits only.

so this time i wasnt paying up. ended up with two girls at me full voice. so did the biscuit and answered back same volume, out come supervisor asking me not to abuse her staff. bit hard to keep a straight face in the light of that pair were doing a pretty good job of abuse from where i stood.

so nice lady asks whats the problem, they tells her it all my fault. didnt put the coat length against the puppys names. n nice lady sayse thats right its your fault. without that THE COMPUTER automatically puts the mums coat length...... grief.. the computer is doing the decisions, not the humans???

and i says but i did put the coat... she asks where... turns the page and there it is in capital letters.

the look on her face....PRICELESS...

worth all the angst.

her conclusion... even funnier... when i asked why wouldnt they back down?

she said. they are Y generation, they never back down..

so at least had a good laugh on the way home for a change.

[Bulldust]

One of my miniature Bull Terriers is half Boxer going by her pedigree papers

Because you can interbreed with Bull Terriers and Bull Terrier miniatures, Dogs Vic now list either Bull Terrier or miniature under every single dogs name on the papers, next to where their coat colour is written.

The father of this bitch is correctly listed as a Bull Terrier, but his parents and grandparents are listed as Boxers called them up and told i have to pay for a new set of papers, never mind its their fault

Edited November 15, 2010 by Bulldust

[Jed]

The longer you breed, the more snafus you see, and the more prepared for them you are. I've bred heaps of litters where no buyer wanted or needed anything. I could have gone to the moon. I wouldn't, but if you had bred 3 litters and no one had a problem, you'd figure that the 4th would be safe and no one would call you.

Additionally, if you didn't hear anything for the first week after sale, you would figure all was well. Plus, if you had a few grand from your pups,and were longing for the bright lights of Surfers, you would probably jump the first jet and do it!!

People forget to pay their membership, and we get so little from the CCs that a lot of people don't pay their membership until they have to registerer pups.

It all comes back to communication, and it is the role of the breeder to lead the way in this. But not all them realise that.

[ellz]

The longer you breed, the more snafus you see, and the more prepared for them you are. I've bred heaps of litters where no buyer wanted or needed anything. I could have gone to the moon. I wouldn't, but if you had bred 3 litters and no one had a problem, you'd figure that the 4th would be safe and no one would call you.

ABSOLUTELY agree with this Jed!

I provide a VERY comprehensive puppy guide with every puppy. If read, it should answer many of those "oh shit" questions that occur to a puppy purchaser in the first few days/weeks of puppy ownership and I am USUALLY there to back it up if they need my reassurance and the "human" touch.

But there have been times when a litter has been carefully slotted in between real life events and I haven't been as available as I would have liked to have been. But we've survived to tell the tale.

I just think it important for both sides of the equation to understand that everybody is human and that "shit happens" that is beyond human control. Oh to be living a perfect life in a perfect environment with completely controllable circumstances.!!