So Whats The Answer ?

[Rusky]

Same situation here as in the puppy farm thread. Given that it seems this is something which is constantly being pushed its time we looked at it - debated the issues and came up with plan of action of our own which is not driven by animal rights and considers alternatives and actions which dont include law changes.

I am against anyone buying a dog or kitten from anyone who is not the person who bred it for a variety of reasons - so lets go - what do you guys see as the answer - but its no fun and prohibitive if we go the way others are and demand new laws - lets look for viable actions and alternatives.

I feel that each state could run a "discover dogs" much like they do at Crufts which I thought was absolutely fantastic with breeders certainly letting people know if they thought the breed might not be suited to the people asking, so not just a case of my breed is best because I love them I mean really getting to the nitty gritty of matching dogs to new Mums and Dads. I think this could run beautifully with a charity show with proceeds going to rescue, a massive show with both confirmation and sport. a real weekend of dogs.

The cat fanciers could do the same.

However I believe we need to ban animals in pet shops as I can't see for one second those puppies getting any adequate socialisation.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Rusky

[*Lolapalooza*]

I promote reg, ethical breeders and rescue when I am asked.

However I believe that the reg, ethical breeders need to be promoted more.

"Meet the pure breeds and Breeders" At a pet store that doesn't sell animals or promos at Town fairs for example. Rescue and breed specific rescues do it all the time.

There are so many pure breeds that people don't even know they exist.

May be a doco.

I think the ANKC should have adverts or newspaper adverts or something to promote pure bred ANKC breeds (by reg breeders)

[mita]

We've gone over this so many times on DOL, because it's so badly needed. The same suggestions keep coming up re promoting purebreds from decent registered breeders.

PetRescue & others are out there promoting dogs from rescue. 'Rescue' dogs are getting firmly into the public consciousness & the promotion of the one-portal website shows them where to go.

Must add something, that others have also said. Our individual purebreds, out & about in their pet lives, provide publicity. My tibbie girls from great breeders, with their lovely looks & typical tibbie temperaments keep winning people they meet. I'm forever passing over info & contacts on how to get one....to good people who ask.

And I know these people would then have access to an amazing global purebred community for my breed. Recently I had a tricky health problem with one of my tibs. I got great advice from the good breeders across a number of countries. When the vet's conclusions were in, they were exactly as these breeders had said. A food intolerance triggered by a processed dog treat. Now she's back to normal on a diet that the breeders recommended (natural foods only) & the vet totally agreed with.

This contact with knowledgeable & experienced registered breeders is pure gold. Freely given.

The US Kennel Club have an annual Pedigree Pride Day, when meet-up & show & tell activities are held throughout the country. That's one of the things I'd like to see here in OZ.

Edited November 14, 2010 by mita

[Steve]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

[WreckitWhippet]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

I agree with that, however there is already a shortage of well bred pedigree dogs. We can't keep up with the demand as it is in most breeds

[ravenau1]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

As a puppy buyer who hasn't had anything to do with dogs in 7 years or so, and hasn't purchased one in over 10, I think this is really important. My last dog was purchased from a registered breeder, but I knew the breeder (happened to be my vet) so I didn't have to go looking. This time around was completely different, and the first place I started looking was the newspaper. I am just lucky that the breed I was looking for isn't that common and I had to widen my search (to online, eventually finding DOL) or I would no doubt have ended up with an unregistered dog. Even though, my whole life, my family has had purebreeds with papers I didn't think it was something that was important unless I was interested in getting involved with dog shows. I can't imagine that I'm terribly different to any other puppy buyer coming from the 'general public'.

If more registered ethical breeders had ads in the pet section of the paper it would make it a great deal easier to find a quality pup.

ETA: I should ad that if I had seen pups of my chosen breed in a petshop I probably would have bought one. I had an idea in my head that only little dogs came from puppy mills. Like toy poodles/cavs etc.

Edited November 14, 2010 by ravenau1

[Gayle.]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

Yes we should. I've been saying it for years.....the way to beat puppy farms, doodleschnoodle breeders, pet shops etc at their own game is to PLAY their game, but with better ethics.

Promote, promote, promote. Right now, the canine councils, the breed clubs, the kennel clubs, they're preaching to the converted. Start preaching to the public in general, give them a better place to buy a good dog from, be a friendly ambassador for purebreds, tout the benefits of purebred dog ownership, but not to those of us who already know about it, we don't need toi know it again and again.

Must add something, that others have also said. Our individual purebreds, out & about in their pet lives, provide publicity. My tibbie girls from great breeders, with their lovely looks & typical tibbie temperaments keep winning people they meet. I'm forever passing over info & contacts on how to get one....to good people who ask.

Yep, I'm often out and about with an Aussie in tow. I always take a dog into town with me if I'm not going in for work or a long shopping trip. People often ask about the breed, usually they've never heard of them or think they are Border Collies, but it gives a great opening for promoting purebred dog ownership.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

I agree with that, however there is already a shortage of well bred pedigree dogs. We can't keep up with the demand as it is in most breeds

this i think is an issue, especially the more unusual breeds like mine, the boston terrier. not a lot of registered breeders out there breeding them.

we do need to look at this issue when promoting pedigreed dogs or are we promoting pure bred dogs?

[mita]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

It's just one strategy, but an important one. Based on the fact that many people don't know where else to go, other than pet shops.

I've met so many good pet owners who believed pet shops were the only places that pet people can go to purchase puppies, where there's some regulation behind it. No, they can also go direct to registered breeders & no, there's no regulation behind pet stores (except very limited codes of practice which can be ignored anyway).

If I had a dollar for every pet owner who's told me they thought only people wanting to show dogs can buy from registered breeders, I'd be rich.

The second fact is that good registered breeders have been found (via research) to raise puppies to be better socialised. Thus setting them up to live a more well adjusted life as a companion dog.

All round... good registered breeders provide an amazing 'service' to pet owners, pre & post sale. And welfare of their animals gets top spot.

[Greytmate]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

That is the professional approach.

Dog breeders provide much better product and back-up service than pet shops can.

The difficulty is marketing that, when welfare constraints mean that good breeders don't shove their pups in glass retail display cabinets to be bought on impulse.

Dog breeders are good at breeding dogs, but generally hopeless at promoting them, and many are not able to keep up with demand anyway, so there seems little point to promotion. As a result there are pet shops everywhere.

It would be easier for breeders to keep up with demand if there were fewer restrictions placed on them. We need to make sure any restrictions are about welfare and not all about limiting numbers.

And purebreed dogs do need a proper marketing campaign so that people are aware of their benefits.

[Shmurps]

What about the success the greyhounds have had promoting them as pets.

We attend lots of greyhound walks and promo's and the public love them. They are amazed to see them out and about they ask lots of questions

and get to see them first hand as pets.

People have no idea what breeds are out there. They are presented with what's in the window.

And you can't blame first time dog owners. Breeders are not interested in them if they ask the wrong question, maybe if the sent them an info sheet on the breed

or something along those lines rather than just deleting their inquiries.

[moosmum]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

While I agree with this to some extent,its not enough on its own.

We have many pure breeds in pet shops too,and if thats where the demand turns to,then i'm sure the puppy farmers etc will just provide more pure breeds for the market.

I think you would rather need to promte the idea that buying directly from the producer is the safest option for both the buyer and the pups/dogs.

It gives the chance to see both parents and assess their health, temperaments and conditions in their surroundings.

Allows youto obseve behaviour in more natural conditions.

Gives you the chance to discuss breed traits,care,health and suitability with the person who should know best what they are striving to acheive in their breeding programs.

IMO promoting pure bred dogs is realy up to the organisations representing them, and their members.

There will always be those who for whatever reasons,are not interested in buying a pure breed.

I do think though that there is little info. regarding pure breeds or where to find them for the general public.But more important is the knowledge that breed breed traits and history,the origins or original purpose, affects breed traits and behaviour.

Buyers need to be more aware of that fact and it should be a consideration in any dog brought into your life if its to fit in.

If that idea can be got through,more would research pure breeds anyway.

The sum of a dog is more than size and coat.

Edited November 14, 2010 by moosmum

[Steve]

What about the success the greyhounds have had promoting them as pets.

We attend lots of greyhound walks and promo's and the public love them. They are amazed to see them out and about they ask lots of questions

and get to see them first hand as pets.

People have no idea what breeds are out there. They are presented with what's in the window.

And you can't blame first time dog owners. Breeders are not interested in them if they ask the wrong question, maybe if the sent them an info sheet on the breed

or something along those lines rather than just deleting their inquiries.

O.K. But do you think promoting our dogs as pets will make any difference to pet shops selling puppy mill dogs? Are you coming at it from - the public buy from pet shops but would prefer to buy from us if we strutted our stuff more? Problem is we dont breed anywhere near enough to fill the demand. I dont see pet shops as any form of competition.

[Shmurps]

Over a period of time , yes. I think there is a percentage of people who would prefer to buy from you guys.

There is a stigma out there about pure-breeds and breeders, and that's where I believe education comes in as well.

As far as supply and demand goes, that's where mentors come in, again, in wont happen over night.

[mita]

I'm saying that letting the general public know about the advantages of adopting purebreds from good registered breeders...& the fact that they can....would syphon off many pet buyers who are presently supporting the existence of pet stores. Because they think they can only buy from pet stores.

However, if demand should then drop for puppy-millers' & BYBers' puppies via pet stores, those creeps will find other ways of selling. Like thro' the classifieds, over the Net, 'front' houses in the suburbs etc. So the existence of the millers still needs to be addressed. However, continuing publicity which encourages pet owners to consider going direct to registered breeders, would further drop their customer numbers.

CHOICE (the Australian Consumers Association) has for some time now, had a more than subtle push to dog buyers, to go find good breeders via the state canine associations (& to adopt from decent rescue). This message just needs to be ratcheted up, to get to the public.

It's like pulling teeth trying to get those canine associations to do so. I guess they'd argue, they're simply a registry. But I notice that the US Kennel Association carries out a lot of PR activities.

I take the point, tho', that there'd be an issue re supply.

Edited November 14, 2010 by mita

[~Anne~]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

I think firstly you need to determine if pet shops are as bad as claimed and if it really makes any difference to the life of the dog sold.

Bybers appear to be selling far more dogs than registered breeders or pet shops and far more dogs with health issues and to the wrong home. If any one area is a threat to purebred dogs it is this area.

Many of the arguments against pet shops simply do not hold up.

Strip back dogs and dog onwership to the bare basics and throw away the arguments that are simply repeated again and again but do not make sense or are simply untrue.

Edited November 14, 2010 by ~Anne~

[Shmurps]

For me I hope I see the day that dogs and cats will be banned from pet stores.

This weekend inc Friday night, 9 pups in the arms of people all came from PP.

Not saying that these people will not care for these animals, but honestly some will need medical attention

sometime in the future. One lady who had purchased Cavalier a pup 6 months ago no longer wants it, it was a spur of the moment

purchase.

Yes I work in a pet store , no we do not sell pups and kittens, but I see and hear

the stories every day I work. I also volunteer at an animal shelter. So I guess I see both ends of the cycle.

[Shazzapug]

So it seems many of you are saying that in order to do something to stop the sale of pets in pet shops we should promote purebreds more ?

I think firstly you need to determine if pet shops are as bad as claimed and if it really makes any difference to the life of the dog sold.

Bybers appear to be selling far more dogs than registered breeders or pet shops and far more dogs with health issues and to the wrong home. If any one area is a threat to purebred dogs it is this area.

Many of the arguments against pet shops simply do not hold up.

Strip back dogs and dog onwership to the bare basics and throw away the arguments that are simply repeated again and again but do not make sense or are simply untrue.

I totally agree with Anne we need to find out for what reason Joe Public is prepared to part with MORE money than what a pure bred would cost from a registered breeder as well as NO PED CERT....WHY do they do that

Not enough promotion of Pure Bred dogs? BYBer ads easier to find in papers and on supermarket ad boards?

[Rusky]

I totally agree with Anne we need to find out for what reason Joe Public is prepared to part with MORE money than what a pure bred would cost from a registered breeder as well as NO PED CERT....WHY do they do that

Not enough promotion of Pure Bred dogs? BYBer ads easier to find in papers and on supermarket ad boards

They have no idea they can get a pup from a registered breeder for less money and with vet certs for parents, I tell them as I cruise around places like PP.

There is NOT enough promotion of pure breeds except the bad promotion last year. On here...sure...it is a pure breed forum, we all know and love dogs and many of us know breeders and have seen the dogs strutting their stuff.

I will help anyone to find a rescue dog and I will help anyone looking to buy a pure breed, if I don't know the breeders of a particular breed then I will ask other breeders I know and trust who will. The problem is in this instant society people are not prepared to wait and honestly can't understand why they need to wait for a puppy. They don't care about the poor bitch in a cage mated every season...they just see the cute puppy in a glass cage and want it much as they want the latest gadget for the kitchen.

There needs to be more public awareness about farms, pet shops and the pure breed community to assist people to make the right choices.

We need to stop this dumpathon of dogs or at least slow it down.

[Gayle.]

Once you've bought one or two purebred dogs and gotten involved with the "dog world" as most DOLers have, it's relatively easy to use the contacts you've made to source your next puppy.

But for someone wanting to buy their first dog, it's not easy to know where to start but pet shops make it a bit easier by having cute puppies there in the window, so they just go there and buy one. And places like PP make it real easy because they ALWAYS have puppies there, lots of them, very cute ones, lots of different types and colours. So a range to choose from.

Years ago, when I was a kid, the local pet shop only had puppies occasionally, I think they came from someones pet dog who'd accidentally gotten pregnant and the owners sold the pups through the pet shop rather than advertise in the paper.

Mostly though, cross-breds were given away free to good home.

When I was first married, my brother-in-law had a mate who's parents owned an Old English Sheepdog bitch. She got out and had a fun time with the lab next door and the result was a litter of fluffy golden and white puppies. These days they'd probably be landed with a stupid name and sold for $1000+, those days they were considered not worth any money and I ended up with a lovely puppy for free.