Thyroid Troubles?

[BC Crazy]

Hi,

Was wondering if anyone can shed some light on a problem that I have with my 2 & a half year old Border Collie 'Sonny'. For some time now I have noticed that on the top of his back towards his rump, their is a patch of hair about six inches round where the hair is rather thin & seems to be a totally different texture to the rest of his coat, which is beautiful, shiny & in good health. I had him professionally groomed yesterday ( for the first time) as I always do him myself & she suggested that she had seen this problem before, & it is a sign of possible Thyroid troubles. Although Sonny's case is very mild apparently as some dogs can loose all their hair & you can see their skin. I have never heard of this before .Should I take him to he vet & have him tested ? He otherwise is in wonderful health. I just want his coat to be 100% healthy too. Would appreciate any advice with this problem & if their is a remedy to cure this. I read last night that Kelp may cure this ailment? He does not scratch & doesn't have flea's or any other little nasties.I want to rectify this problem A.S.A.P. Please help

[matilda1]

BC's are prone to Thyroid problems and other related issues but that doesn't automatically mean yours is one fo them.

he might just have rubbed it out, or have a mild allergy.

but if you are worried having the thyroid tested is just a simple blood test.

Ask for a T4

If nothing else it will put your mind at ease.

[Erny]

BC's are prone to Thyroid problems and other related issues but that doesn't automatically mean yours is one fo them.

he might just have rubbed it out, or have a mild allergy.

but if you are worried having the thyroid tested is just a simple blood test.

Ask for a T4

If nothing else it will put your mind at ease.

It is not quite such a simple test as there is more to it than just testing for T4 for an accurate diagnosis. The trouble is, our Aussie laboratories do not have the facilities to enable them to do the FULL panel test (T4, T3, T3aa, T4aa, etc), which is why I prefer thyroid tests to be conducted by Dr Jean Dodds, in the USA, especially in the younger dogs when it might not show up in though our testing. A bit more expensive because you'll need to pay for the International Courier, but not completely unaffordable. If the test is done here in Australia and it came up as "positive" then I'd be inclined to believe it. But if it came up as "negative" then I'd only wonder if it is a true result and to me the expense for the Aussie test would be a waste because I'd feel I'd only need to have it redone in the USA. Also, the USA analysis is a bit more specific than our Aussie "small, medium, and large" dogs analysis.

However I agree that the symptom the OP has described is not really enough to determine thyroid as being a likely cause of the problem, but if the OP wants to rule it out then the blood test is the way to go.

Are there any other possible contributing causes? For example, does your BC happens chance to have a tail that tends to curl up and over? I have seen this on a standard poodle and the rubbing of the tail on the back causes the coat to be flattened and more wiry at that spot. Or does your BC chew there?

Edited November 12, 2010 by Erny

[BC Crazy]

BC's are prone to Thyroid problems and other related issues but that doesn't automatically mean yours is one fo them.

he might just have rubbed it out, or have a mild allergy.

but if you are worried having the thyroid tested is just a simple blood test.

Ask for a T4 :D

If nothing else it will put your mind at ease.

It is not quite such a simple test as there is more to it than just testing for T4 for an accurate diagnosis. The trouble is, our Aussie laboratories do not have the facilities to enable them to do the FULL panel test (T4, T3, T3aa, T4aa, etc), which is why I prefer thyroid tests to be conducted by Dr Jean Dodds, in the USA, especially in the younger dogs when it might not show up in though our testing. A bit more expensive because you'll need to pay for the International Courier, but not completely unaffordable. If the test is done here in Australia and it came up as "positive" then I'd be inclined to believe it. But if it came up as "negative" then I'd only wonder if it is a true result and to me the expense for the Aussie test would be a waste because I'd feel I'd only need to have it redone in the USA. Also, the USA analysis is a bit more specific than our Aussie "small, medium, and large" dogs analysis.

However I agree that the symptom the OP has described is not really enough to determine thyroid as being a likely cause of the problem, but if the OP wants to rule it out then the blood test is the way to go.

Are there any other possible contributing causes? For example, does your BC happens chance to have a tail that tends to curl up and over? I have seen this on a standard poodle and the rubbing of the tail on the back causes the coat to be flattened and more wiry at that spot. Or does your BC chew there?

No,he doesn't chew anywhere except occasionally his feet when the lawn is a bit long in our back yard, so we try to mow it every 2nd w.end.

[BC Crazy]

BC's are prone to Thyroid problems and other related issues but that doesn't automatically mean yours is one fo them.

he might just have rubbed it out, or have a mild allergy.

but if you are worried having the thyroid tested is just a simple blood test.

Ask for a T4 :D

If nothing else it will put your mind at ease.

Didn't know that BC's where to to this problem BellaDonna. I have always had border's & this is the first time this has happened. Luckily for me I guess. I am really worried about it. Yes, I might have to get him tested. I thought I had just been a bit over zealous with the Mars coat king but the actual hair is just such a different texture to the rest of him, it is quite strange really cause it is just in that particular spot.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Panda has hypothyroidism which was dignosed by a T4, we did not do the tests which Erny has posted as we were pretty sure what the problem was.

He lost a lot of coat, had almost no hair on his tail, his skin was a rusty brown colour and he was overweight-all symptoms and was diagnosed in June 2008.

He is on a dailly dose of thyroxine and now shows none of the symptoms described above. :D

[Bully]

Hypothyroidism is quite common in dogs and is easily treated.

I agree with Erny about our testing here in Australia. Here's the link to Dr Jean Dodds http://www.hemopet.org/services.html#bookmark1 With the high Aussie $ at the moment it is quite affordable :D

[BC Crazy]

Panda has hypothyroidism which was dignosed by a T4, we did not do the tests which Erny has posted as we were pretty sure what the problem was.

He lost a lot of coat, had almost no hair on his tail, his skin was a rusty brown colour and he was overweight-all symptoms and was diagnosed in June 2008.

He is on a dailly dose of thyroxine and now shows none of the symptoms described above.

Sonny has not lost a lot of hair but he has lost a bit in that particular area, you can't see his skin yet but I want to try & catch the problem before it gets to that degree if possible. Looking like a trip to the vet to make sure though. He has a slight weight problem as well. Another sign :D You give Panda daily medication which is successful, ya!!! There is hope for us then. Did it take long to see results? Is the medication expensive? Does this problem with the Thyroid effect their health in any other way that you know of? Sorry for all the ????

[dancinbcs]

BC's are prone to Thyroid problems and other related issues but that doesn't automatically mean yours is one fo them.

he might just have rubbed it out, or have a mild allergy.

but if you are worried having the thyroid tested is just a simple blood test.

Ask for a T4 :D

If nothing else it will put your mind at ease.

I think that needs to be clarfiied to read. Thyroid problems have been documented in Border Collies but are very rare. I only know of two dogs since 1983, when I became involved with the breed. Any dog can develop thyroid problems and saying a breed is prone to it, implies that there is a breed problem, when clearly there isn't. I know some overseas countries test for it so assume they may have had problems in their lines but there are many unrelated lines of Border Collies throughout the world and while our lines in Australia have one problem the others don't, there are several other problems that have been recorded in other countries, but not here.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Panda is the only one of my 8 who has been affected.

LOL, have NO idea how much thyroxine costs, but if it keeps Panda fit and well then the $$$ don't matter. :D He is SO much a happier boy who loves his sheepies (we have a herding training facility).

From memory (going back to 2008), results from medication took about 6 weeks to really "kick in"

[Bully]

Pele is low thyroid and on Thyroxine. She was diagnosed just before her 2nd birthday. I suspected thyroid and asked the vet to blood test and sure enough that was the problem. Within about 2 weeks her energy levels and weight improved and probably about 6 weeks for her coat to improve :D

Pele is on 1/2 tablet morning and night. The bottle of Thyroxine costs about $40 and lasts about 6 months. I have her T4 checked 6 monthly.

[JulesP]

I don't know any borders with a thyroid problem either. So I also wouldn't say that they are prone to it.

If you doggie is loosing weight then I wouldn't look at that as a symptom. I think you said he was loosing weight? Thyroid issues usually mean it is very hard to gain or loose weight.

[BC Crazy]

I don't know any borders with a thyroid problem either. So I also wouldn't say that they are prone to it.

If you doggie is loosing weight then I wouldn't look at that as a symptom. I think you said he was loosing weight? Thyroid issues usually mean it is very hard to gain or loose weight.

Hi Jules P, yes my boy is loosing weight pretty quickly. :D I have halved his food intake & am extremely determine, I think he knows that now ( they are very good at reading your body language, aren't they? ) cause he isn't playing the game" of I want something else to eat" with me like he used to. Just this hair thing is strange , maybe an allergy of some kind, might talk to my next time I am in there, see what he reckons. It is just annoying as his coat is lovely till you get to this small area on him.

[Erny]

I think you said he was loosing weight? Thyroid issues usually mean it is very hard to gain or loose weight.

I think that depends. I agree that inexplicable increase of weight is a symptom, but there could also be the cases where thyroid dysfunction causes anxiety/stress and as a result, a dog who might suffer weight loss. So, the weight loss isn't the symptom per se, but anxiety/stress may be and the weight loss a subsequence.

I'm not an expert and I'm not sure whether Dr Jean Dodds would agree with me, but one thing I know through some of the research I have done over the while is that early onset thyroiditis in young dogs can represent with similar symptoms to that of hyperthyroidism (which dogs don't get - or is considered very rare).

ETA: Hair loss is normally symmetrical if its cause is due to thryoid issues.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Erny

[becks]

Just that patch on the rump can also be a sign of a flea allergy (just one flea bite can set it off again)

[sezling]

My dog is on thyroxine from the vet. 100 tablets costs around $35 and he's supposed to have them twice a day. he had a T4 of 7 (norm is 19+) and they want it up around 30. The thyroid acts really quickly on his back/joint pain. When I tried to cut it down to once a day he was lethargic and his tail kept curling underneath him as an expression of pain upon certain movement but after keeping to the twice daily dosage he was back to normal in a few days. The vet said his recurrent skin infections could be due to hypothyroidism but the thyroxine hasn't kept it at bay (I've had to use other things). My dog was really skinny when he was diagnosed as opposed to the common symptom of weight gain.

[Rusky]

get a free TSH done cost is around $74. ask for it, if there is a problem which shows as in a low thyroxine you can start the treatment. Your vet will probably want to do a full blood test first which if they do have an underactive thyroid will show all sorts of odd changes and still doesn't test the thyroid. If the thyroid test is ok then go the Jean dodds.. oh I see Erny answered

so my 2 cents is all and now If i suspect any dog has a thyroid problem ( rescue) I go straight for the free TSH and ignore all the other stuff if it is low or negligable till they have been on thyroxine for a few weeks, then get levels done and possibly a full blood count.

[dogbesotted]

My dog is on thyroxine from the vet. 100 tablets costs around $35 and he's supposed to have them twice a day. he had a T4 of 7 (norm is 19+) and they want it up around 30. The thyroid acts really quickly on his back/joint pain. When I tried to cut it down to once a day he was lethargic and his tail kept curling underneath him as an expression of pain upon certain movement but after keeping to the twice daily dosage he was back to normal in a few days. The vet said his recurrent skin infections could be due to hypothyroidism but the thyroxine hasn't kept it at bay (I've had to use other things). My dog was really skinny when he was diagnosed as opposed to the common symptom of weight gain.

thyorid meds should ideally be give twice a day as close to 12 hours aprt as possible. this then keep the levels approx normal over the 24 hour period.

as he has continuing problems.. what blood tests have been done? a full thyroid panel together with a test for thyroid antibodies needs to be done as that will help indicate waht the problem actually is.

H

[BC Crazy]

get a free TSH done cost is around $74. ask for it, if there is a problem which shows as in a low thyroxine you can start the treatment. Your vet will probably want to do a full blood test first which if they do have an underactive thyroid will show all sorts of odd changes and still doesn't test the thyroid. If the thyroid test is ok then go the Jean dodds.. oh I see Erny answered

so my 2 cents is all and now If i suspect any dog has a thyroid problem ( rescue) I go straight for the free TSH and ignore all the other stuff if it is low or negligable till they have been on thyroxine for a few weeks, then get levels done and possibly a full blood count.

A big thanks to everyone for there help regarding this issue of Sonny's hair disturbance.I have been trying to remember when I first noticed this issue with him & realized when he was an young adolescent I thought this small patch of unusual hair growth was just puppy coat growing but it must not of been cause it is still there now. So it has been there for quite some time. Was going to try an give him something to promote hair re growth as it is such a small area & you can't see his skin or anything. You can feel little spikes of new growth but the texture of the hair is more coarse. I don't know what to give him though , heard Kelp is good. Maybe there is a better alternative additive out there??? I give him Omega 3, twice a week at the moment.