Stop The Use Of Pound Animals For Experiments At Queensland University

[hoffpig]

No-one is going to adopt the dogs. It is a matter of keeping animals out of laboratories as much as possible, because past abuse of animals in laboratories has been sickening and horrendous. It is all about being vigilant to the nth degree - and not offering animals up as cheap objects for the experiments of the 80s and 2010s and 2020s like gormless, unconscionable idiots because it might suit science, councils and people who think animals are worth nothing.

Edited November 14, 2010 by hoffpig

[hoffpig]

Are you people actually happy that owners of greyhounds sell their dogs to universities if the dog doesn't perform or is done breeding or whatever? Is this OK in the universe?

Edited November 14, 2010 by hoffpig

[Aussienot]

Sigh, once again for those who feel strongly but don't know what this thread is about . . .

It's not labratory testing of animals. The dogs being used are going to die either way. The are not perfectly healthy humans who have a home to go to.

I thinking of starting a petition to improve the training opportunities for veterinary students.

[raz]

I thinking of starting a petition to improve the training opportunities for veterinary students.

I'd be interested in signing that. I'm actually quite amazed that someone straight out of law school and wanting to go to the Bar needs a Master to mentor them, but a vet grad can immediately set up his/her own shingle.

eta one of the comments on that petition is that vet students cannot use live animals at a Uni in Canada. Would anyone here who has signed the petition allow any vet student who had never picked up a scalpel to operate on your dog?

Edited November 14, 2010 by raz

[Nekhbet]

No-one is going to adopt the dogs. It is a matter of keeping animals out of laboratories as much as possible, because past abuse of animals in laboratories has been sickening and horrendous. It is all about being vigilant to the nth degree - and not offering animals up as cheap objects for the experiments of the 80s and 2010s and 2020s like gormless, unconscionable idiots because it might suit science, councils and people who think animals are worth nothing.

HEY THERE"S ONLY ROOM FOR ONE CONSPIRACY LOONY ON THIS FORUM AND THAT IS ME ... ahem ...

so in your world, it's better dogs just die in a cold pound then go to the uni for a while, get attention, cuddles, well fed etc then given a premed and operated on in order for veterinary students to learn skills that will help your own pet down the track. I dont think people truely understand how complicated and difficult surgery actually is, even after doing multiple dissections and studying diagrams every animal is different. I can tell you when you are literally up to your elbows in an animal and it's touch and go you are VERY thankful for live experience. Had to help untangle the abdominal cavity of this poor staffy once, me AND the vet both were in there luckily the dog made it

I did a year of vet school. If anyone was to blame it was the people who bred or dumped their animals. We dissected the greyhounds nobody wanted - these dogs had pressure sores, scars, were thin from a lifetime of no food, some even pregnant and due to give birth in a few weeks. Any student found disrespecting animals was in massive trouble, one guy had a giggle over a puppy he found in the womb and I dont think he graduated. These animals ARE worth something and if nothing else students then see them as live creatures, not just bodies in a dissection room. You want to teach heart and conscience put a student in a kennel room with 10 dogs all wagging their tails and staring up at them and see which one doesnt tear up ...

Would anyone here who has signed the petition allow any vet student who had never picked up a scalpel to operate on your dog?

I still wouldnt Raz a few years at uni doesnt pop you out as a surgeon no matter how good or smart you are. I had a new grad (I actually went to uni with her) stitch up my Malinois bitch years ago and if I had known it was her I would have said no ... she didnt do a very good job at all. It was something that needed to be done by someone with some experience

Edited November 14, 2010 by Nekhbet

[frufru]

Thank you for replying, Nekhbet, you said it very well!!!!!

[stormie]

Well said Nekhbet

[raz]

Is there any truth to that comment about vet students in Canada? I would be pretty surprised if there is.

[Bilbo Baggins]

hoffpig doctors do practise on "LIVE" humans, its called being a resident then a registrar in a PUBLIC Hospital.

And many botch up happen.

[Bilbo Baggins]

This petitions is soooooo miguided. Vet students should have the opportunity to learn on live animals.

[Are You Serious Jo]

As I said, hoffpig, you signed something you have no clue about, the more posts you make the more obvious it is. I am against invasive painful experiments on animals and my area of expertise is how we can use animal cognition to improve captive welfare. But thank you for your ummm, very colourful assumptions about my career ;)

[mita]

Another thread about the University of Qld that overlooks the fact that their veterinary clinical studies section, the Centre for Companion Animal Health, rescues pound dogs & cats and uses them in minimally invasive research studies.

During that time they are housed in good accommodation & get playtime, socialisation & training. At the conclusion of the study, the dogs & cats are adopted to good homes. Desexed, microchipped, vaccinated and thoroughly vet checked. Our puss came from that University of Qld Adoption Program. Best socialised puss we've ever had. She was at the Uni for a year & had a ball, playing with 29 other cats in her program & having volunteers come in for playtime. The day I went to see the pusses, I was very impressed. 30 gorgeous cats in a special playroom & so well socialised with people after their 12 month stay. (They'd been in a study looking at effects of various diets.)

I thought the program's screening of new owners, matching with pets & pre- and post- adoption support, were the best I've seen in rescue.

I suggest that people circulating this petition do something proactive on behalf of the pound dogs & cats and circulate the current PetRescue listing of pets for adoption from the University of Qld. Help them find good homes. Yes, they're kept until the right home comes along (no PTS). And, yes, they do interstate adoptions.

http://www.petrescue.com.au/search_by_member/?member=443

Edited November 15, 2010 by mita

[poodlefan]

From the petitition:

In addition, personal experience at this shelter concludes that the greater majority of cats and dogs who are transported to UQ for educational use are likely to be animals/pets who would be considered adoptable.

Anyone who doesn't have personal experience at the shelter shouldn't sign the petition IMO. You'd be agreeing with something that you can't verify.

As I read it, the petition is arguing that those dogs that are being PTS are rehomeable. Lack of homes is surely no reason to beat up UQ for taking dogs that are going to die anyway? If the issue is that the shelter could rehome more dogs then the petition is targetting the wrong end of the stick.

Sounds like a fantastic trigger for the shelter concerned to boot volunteers to the kerb. If providing access brings unwelcome heat on shelter staff, I'd expect management to act to remove it.

Edited November 15, 2010 by poodlefan

[Linda K]

no intention of signing, as many others have said, I would far rather my vet had learned on a living breathing animal - far different from practicing on cadavers that have no bleeding issues for starters.

[poochmad]

Wow! What an interesting thread!

When I first read the emotive title, I thought OMG...and was all set to sign it when I read on and on and on. Now, thanks to the level headed DOLers, Nekhbet, Poodlefan, Mita, BB, etc, I do not support the petition and agree with what is happening at the Uni. Had it been said the operations were operated on awake dogs, then that would have been a different story altogether, but considering it's the only way (and best way) to teach future vets, and the dogs are well treated throughout, then I am all for it.

Edited November 15, 2010 by poochmad

[Are You Serious Jo]

To put it in perspective, you need to get ethics committee approval to even observe animals, operating on conscious animals would never happen, EVER. PM you've done what everyone should do, actually read about it and not get sucked into highly emotive language designed to mislead people.

[Shmurps]

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but out of curiosity how would you know if the procedure was successful when the dog is put to sleep?

Isn't recovery and after care part of it.

[Souff]

I thinking of starting a petition to improve the training opportunities for veterinary students.

I'd be interested in signing that. I'm actually quite amazed that someone straight out of law school and wanting to go to the Bar needs a Master to mentor them, but a vet grad can immediately set up his/her own shingle.

eta one of the comments on that petition is that vet students cannot use live animals at a Uni in Canada. Would anyone here who has signed the petition allow any vet student who had never picked up a scalpel to operate on your dog?

Aussienot, I am with you.

There is no way that I would sign a petition that would inhibit proper training of vet students.

If the dogs that they use did not have a viable future, and do not suffer at the university, then there is no ethical problem.

Vets need to learn their practical skills somehow, not start to practice and learn on dogs that need their experience and skills to save their life.

Souff

[Souff]

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but out of curiosity how would you know if the procedure was successful when the dog is put to sleep?

Isn't recovery and after care part of it.

Well then you could learn a lot about by going and talking to the university staff concerned. and you would sparkle a little more in the shed.

I know for a fact that some of the universities are very much involved in recovery and after care on some of the dogs that they use. In other circs this might not be the case but you will only know by talking to the people concerned.

Vets need to learn their practical skills somehow.

It is not appropriate that vets start learning surgical procedures on sick dogs (e.g. yours and mine) that need an experienced vet with the skills to save their life.

You don't let a pilot take up a plane solo if he hasn't had training and experience on the ground. Same goes for vets.

Souff

[Souff]

Target: Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries, and Rural and Regional Queensland

Sponsored by: Puppy Love Rescue NSW

In brief, the relationship between Logan City Council Animal Management and University of Queensland is greatly disconcerting as it is urges veterinary students away from greater compassion (via desensitization and moral disengagement); it fails to provide students the opportunity to learn post-operative care; it creates a theme of mistrust within the community relating to relinquishment of animals; and most importantly, the ethics of such an operation are questionable.

In addition, personal experience at this shelter concludes that the greater majority of cats and dogs who are transported to UQ for educational use are likely to be animals/pets who would be considered adoptable.

Unfortunately this agreement still appears to remain firm despite the existence of many other viable alternatives, including interactive software, willed body donation programs, shelter medicine spay/neuter programs/surgical rotations and educational memorial programs.

You can sign the petition here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/34/stop-the...and-university/

Disclaimer: Please note that I am posting this petition on behalf of a collegue. It is not my petition.

Please tell your colleague that Souff wont be signing. Thank you.