Stop The Use Of Pound Animals For Experiments At Queensland University

[raz]

So is this about stopping live animal studies or live animal studies on pound dogs?

So was this question answered? A few posts got nuked so if it was, I missed it. What's the issue because the people petitioning probably use pharmaceuticals all the time or have a vet work on their dog if it needs surgery.

[Shmurps]

There isn't anything barbaric about vet stundents learning.

Heartbreaking is euthing dogs, chucking them in a black plastic bag and dumping their bodies at the tip.

They still get chucked in a black plastic bag and dumped at the tip.

[raz]

There isn't anything barbaric about vet stundents learning.

Heartbreaking is euthing dogs, chucking them in a black plastic bag and dumping their bodies at the tip.

They still get chucked in a black plastic bag and dumped at the tip.

Atleast they've done something useful for science first. No different to someone's relative who got got carved up for science rather than just stuck in a hole

[Kirty]

Not to mention they also get to spend some time being cared for properly, cuddled by the students, etc. I know the students I work with always tell me that they make a fuss of the dogs beforehand.

But the point is, these dogs were going to be PTS anyway. There is no difference between being PTS at the pound and PTS at the uni. Actually, there probably is. At the uni they would have premeds so be nice and relaxed before being knocked out.

[raz]

. At the uni they would have premeds so be nice and relaxed before being knocked out.

And the upshot is, if someone is worried their dog might be chopped up for science, they probably shouldn't dump it to start with

[stormie]

Unfortunately, it's a fact that for people to learn and animals to live, others have to die.

All the vets I've worked with tell how wonderfully these animals were treated, possibly far better than they may have been had they been pts at the pound. The students hold them and cuddle them and pat them. They feel no pain.

It happens in every part of the veterinary industry. For any drug to be registered, it has to be tested. The process required to register a vaccination is far far worse; what those dogs in the studies have to go through is much worse. So before people start pushing for vaccines to be registered for longer interval times, keep in mind you're sentencing many many dogs to death.

So if you think this is barbaric and want to take a stand, then I would expect that you'll also never use a vaccine, commercial food, drugs or have your dog operated on.

eta: I believe too that its not uncommon for some of the students to take home some of the animals if they can, rather than pts.

Edited November 13, 2010 by stormie

[persephone]

Don't know if it still happens, but a friend who studied medicine, used to use greys in heart research ..pacemakers etc . Whilst very well cared for, most of them were PTS eventually...he loved working with them .. and had his favourites, but could also see that they were there for one purpose only.

[hoffpig]

Petition signed and forwarded. I'll write to councillors tomorrow.

[GoldenGirl85]

i believe in stead of using animals for experiments why not use the useless !@#$ in jail like the rapists or murders that would be ideal that is wat i call justice

???

For one, dog anatomy is very different to human anatomy, Id rather have someone operating on my dog who knows what goes where

You can only learn so much through simulation and text books, sorry but there will be no signature from me, sure its harsh, but its a fact of life, these dogs will get PTS anyway, they may as well help our future vets learn

[stormie]

No signature from me either and I find this topic very frustrating.

It's not uncommon to see posts started from people complaining about vets. Their fees are too high, they didn't get the diagnosis first go, missed something etc etc. And now people want to take away one of the major learning factors for vets through Uni?

You need to stop humanising this. Putting to sleep an animal is not cruel. The dogs were going to be put to sleep anyway, so surely it's better they get to contribute something to the world rather than dying in vain?

How are vets meant to learn otherwise? You want the best care for your pet when he's ill but how will that happen if they aren't given the experience and training to know what to do? You want your animals to be safe under anaesthesia, but again, you take away this part of study and it just becomes text book training. So the first time something goes wrong and they need to know what to do, it's going to be on your dog.

I'm still interested to know whether those that are taking a stand against this and signing the petition, will you then follow through and refuse to use vaccines? Will you not vaccinate your next puppy and risk it's life, to stand up for those used in the vaccine trial/registration process? Same goes with worming your dog, heartworm prevention, flea prevention, tick prevention.

[redangel]

Your dog needs surgery and surgery now.........there are two new graduates...one has done many nr surgeries whilst studying, the other has never been outside of a textbook(aka like jessies ideal world) I know which vet Id choose. There are somethings that need hands on experience in which to develop further learning. Such experience saves alot more than having not had the experience. People training to be vets are there because they have compassion and the desire to save animals, not because they want to play God with hapless, homeless creatures.

Best save the petitions for the cosmetic industry and " research" whaling.

[raz]

No signature from me either and I find this topic very frustrating.

It's not uncommon to see posts started from people complaining about vets. Their fees are too high, they didn't get the diagnosis first go, missed something etc etc. And now people want to take away one of the major learning factors for vets through Uni?

Amazing isnt it. I find it rather irrational quite frankly.

[frufru]

I got this petition forwarded to me via my rescue group and it went in my trash - it is highly emotive. It has been reassuring to read several posts which indicated that vet students treat the animals they deal with respectfully and with compassion. It is not so at my local pound. I also agree with the comments made about the invaluable learning which occurs.

[stormie]

There isn't anything barbaric about vet stundents learning.

Heartbreaking is euthing dogs, chucking them in a black plastic bag and dumping their bodies at the tip.

They still get chucked in a black plastic bag and dumped at the tip.

'They' implies you are talking about a living thing. The body of the now passed animal gets 'placed' into a plastic bag and buried, yes. But it's not a living animal anymore. It's a body. The animals soul or whatever has long gone. I can't see how the aftercare of a dead body has anything to do with it.

[erinonthefarm]

At first with this forum I was going to signthe petition, but stormy, raz and others have a valid point, and I think Vets do it tough already.

Just wondering though, why there is not internships for Vets out of uni? I appreciate that the costs of having a vet that is not fully operational would be an added expense for surgerys.

I agree that the real problem is with the useless people who allow animals they are responsible for to end up at the pound, and local government pounds, who PTS many dogs and cats but will allow an undesexed animal to leave the pound in adoption schemes . This is from personal experience with a un-named Sydney pound. Sydney Uni had a free desexing clinic, but it was optional.

[stormie]

At first with this forum I was going to signthe petition, but stormy, raz and others have a valid point, and I think Vets do it tough already.

Just wondering though, why there is not internships for Vets out of uni? I appreciate that the costs of having a vet that is not fully operational would be an added expense for surgerys.

I agree that the real problem is with the useless people who allow animals they are responsible for to end up at the pound, and local government pounds, who PTS many dogs and cats but will allow an undesexed animal to leave the pound in adoption schemes . This is from personal experience with a un-named Sydney pound. Sydney Uni had a free desexing clinic, but it was optional.

I can't speak for all clinic, but I know with the ones I've worked at, the new grads are mentored for a while when they first start working. Ours consulted on their own but always had another vet on duty they could discuss things with if they needed help. Same with surgery - routine things they did on their own but always with another vet in theatre in case they need help. With the more difficult surgeries, they'd start off scrubbed in assisting and after a few, when they felt comfortable, they did them on their own.

I have heard of some clinics having a senior vet sit in on consults with the new grads until they're satisfied they can handle it on their own.

In saying all that though, once they graduate uni, they're vets and can do what they want. I know of one who came straight out of uni and started their own practice on their own. Knowing how 'fresh' our new grads were, I have no idea how this person survives!

[Steve]

No signature from me either.

[WreckitWhippet]

Some of the comments from those who have signed, make them look like raving loonies.

I won't be signing

[raz]

Some of the comments from those who have signed, make them look like raving loonies.

I won't be signing

I must say, I had a laugh about those comments yesterday

[erinonthefarm]

Thanks Stormy,

What Im wondering is why Vet graduates can't get the surgery experience once they are employed, your response answered most of my question, I guess if a vet graduate did start their own practise there is no one to mentor them, I would not like to take my dog to them even if they had done the practise at uni.