Stop The Use Of Pound Animals For Experiments At Queensland University

[DMA]

Target: Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries, and Rural and Regional Queensland

Sponsored by: Puppy Love Rescue NSW

In brief, the relationship between Logan City Council Animal Management and University of Queensland is greatly disconcerting as it is urges veterinary students away from greater compassion (via desensitization and moral disengagement); it fails to provide students the opportunity to learn post-operative care; it creates a theme of mistrust within the community relating to relinquishment of animals; and most importantly, the ethics of such an operation are questionable.

In addition, personal experience at this shelter concludes that the greater majority of cats and dogs who are transported to UQ for educational use are likely to be animals/pets who would be considered adoptable.

Unfortunately this agreement still appears to remain firm despite the existence of many other viable alternatives, including interactive software, willed body donation programs, shelter medicine spay/neuter programs/surgical rotations and educational memorial programs.

You can sign the petition here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/34/stop-the...and-university/

Disclaimer: Please note that I am posting this petition on behalf of a collegue. It is not my petition.

[Staranais]

I'd need a little more information before I'd sign that, I think.

If these are rehomeable animals that were only PTS for the purposes of learning, then I do have an issue with that.

If the cats and dogs were going to be PTS anyway, I see no trouble with students using them to learn via non recovery surgery. It's not an inhumane way to die - it's generally at least as kind as being PTS any other way. The animal is sedated, then put under anaesthetic, exactly the same as any other pet having an operation. The only difference is that the animal isn't allowed to wake up after the surgery.

I've personally learned a whole heap from doing non recovery surgeries, things you just don't learn as easily from doing recovery surgery, and that you definitely don't learn when dissecting a dead animal. At my university we do non recovery surgery on sheep, not cats & dogs, which I am grateful for since as a dog and cat owner I find it emotionally easier (although I'm not sure it's "morally" better). I had reservations before doing this - I'm a big softie, I won't even eat sheep - but I have to say I learned an incredible amount from my non recovery surgeries, and I think they will make me a better vet when I graduate.

Our sheep were treated very respectfully - most if not all of us would have treated them kindly anyway, but we also had it drummed into us by all the staff that using these animals was a huge privilege and that we must be very respectful to them. Our sheep had a far kinder end than they would have gotten at the meat works, since the last thing they knew was being sedated then going under anaesthetic, not going on a scary truck and then being captive bolted.

So I would oppose any petition trying to stop all non-recovery surgeries. I think banning non-recovery surgeries would be misguided, and not help anyone.

As I said above, if they are killing cats and dogs that could be rehomed, then that IMO is a different matter.

[DMA]

From the Humane Research Australia website

A number of Australian councils have been identified that provide dogs to Queensland University for research purposes.

Caboolture Shire Council, (now Moreton Bay Regional Council) stated "Council has a long standing arrangement with local veterinary clinics and the Queensland University for the humane euthanasia of unwanted animals."1

Logan City Council, despite receiving petitions and reviewing the situation after much correspondence and a meeting with HRA "made the decision to provide animals to the university."2

The University of Queensland has advised that they use pound animals for training veterinary surgeons and in feeding trial research.3

The Humane Research Australia Inc. opposes the use of pound animals in research and teaching for the following reasons:

Abandoned animals in pounds and shelters have already suffered the fear and distress of losing their carers and familiar territory. Their use in research is the ultimate betrayal and one that cannot be condoned in a caring society.

The use of pound dogs creates a dependence on pet overpopulation and is therefore taking advantage of the human irresponsibility and cruelty necessitating pounds rather than addressing the problem.5

The primary justification for using pound animals in research and teaching is that they are already destined to die, so their use in teaching will give their lives and deaths purpose. But these animals are sentient individuals and not mere tools for teaching and practicing on. They already have their own intrinsic worth.

Trainee veterinarians should be learning to respect life.

There are already alternatives available in veterinary teaching that allow students to acquire an education equal to those that use animals in terminal surgery. Use of pound dogs is therefore a failure to implement the "3R’s" (reduction, refinement and replacement) principle.

If it is necessary for veterinary students to practice on real animals then they could provide a desexing service to pounds and shelters thereby providing a real benefit for the individual animals. This will also mean that students will gain the experience of observing and monitoring post-operative recovery. Students may also gain hands-on experience by assisting with and performing supervised surgeries in private veterinary practices on patients in genuine need of assistance – as is practiced in UK veterinary colleges and how human doctors learn in teaching hospitals.8

As part of its 2007 Grants Program, Voiceless awarded an $8,000 grant to Dr Shan Lloyd from The University of Queensland who is conducting a feasibility study into whether an Educational Memorial Program (the supply of "ethically" sourced cadavers to replace the use of healthy shelter animals in teaching practice) could be successfully introduced at the School of Veterinary Sciences, UQ. 9 A similar program is already in place at the University of Sydney.10

The Australian code of practice for the care and use of animals for scientific purposes (ergo the law) clearly states "Scientific and teaching activities using animals may be performed only when they are essential"(1.1) and "Techniques that totally or partially replace the use of animals for scientific purposes must be sought and used wherever possible."(1.8) The Code is a legally enforceable document!

See our latest media release.

You can help them stop!

Please write to the following Councils and request that they cease providing their lost and abandoned animals to Queensland University.

Mr Chris Rose

Chief Executive Officer

Logan City Council

PO Box 3226

Logan City DC

Qld 4114

Or email: [email protected]

Cr Pam Parker

Mayor, Logan City Council

PO Box 3226

Logan City DC

Qld 4114

Or email: [email protected]

Mr John Rauber

Chief Executive Officer

Moreton Bay Regional Council

Caboolture District Office

PO Box 159

Caboolture

Qld 4510

Or email: [email protected]

Cr Allan Sutherland

Mayor, Moreton Bay Regional Council

Caboolture District Office

PO Box 159

Caboolture

Qld 4510

Or email: [email protected]

Also write to The University of Queensland asking them to use more humane methods to training their veterinary students such as those mentioned above.

Professor Jonathan Hill

Head of School & Dean ,

School of Veterinary Science

University of Queensland

Gatton

Qld 4343

Or email: [email protected]

1.Personal correspondence from Royce Jackson, Manager Compliance Services dated 13/3/07

2.Personal correspondence from Gillian Mansfield, Animal & Pest Services Manager dated 4/12/07

3.Personal correspondence from Prof. Leigh Ward, Chair, Queensland University Animal Ethics Committee, dated 28/11/06

4.Knight, A., 2002, "The Use of Pound Dogs in Veterinary Surgical Training."

5.Quain, Anne, 2000. "The Real Thing. A discussion on the use of pound dogs in the veterinary science curriculum."

6.Personal correspondence from Mark Townend, RSPCA Qld, 25 September 2006

7.Knight, A., 2002, "The Use of Pound Dogs in Veterinary Surgical Training."

8.Knight, A., 2002, "The Use of Pound Dogs in Veterinary Surgical Training."

9.http://www.voiceless.org.au/blogcategories/2007_Grant_Recipients/16/16.html

10.Personal correspondence from Leo Jeffcott, Dean, Faculty of Veterinary Science, University of Sydney dated 16/6/06

Source: http://www.aahr.org.au/campaigns/dog_poundsQLD.html

[Staranais]

Sorry, more to add for anyone who is interested in a vet student's perspective.

I'd also like to point out that at my university we do do lots of recovery surgeries - in final two years we do all the desexing for the local SPCA, we also run a small and large animal hospital and operate on many client's animals. These are very important experiences, but different to doing non recovery surgeries. I have come to believe that doing both are ideal when you are learning to be a surgeon.

Recovery surgeries are valuable. But non recovery surgeries are too, in a different way - they not only give you more surgeries under your belt, but give you experience in doing (simulated) rarer operations, and give you experience in managing (simulated) anaesthetic or surgical emergencies. This is so important, as many vets will have to do these things on their own, unsupervised, as soon as they graduate. We don't have a prolonged, supervised, internship like human surgeons do. When a vet student graduates, the buck stops with them.

It's not good if you're trying to work out how to do a bloat surgery when you are presented with an unstable, dying, septic, bloating dog (since you never got to practice it at your recovery-only school, since you didn't get a bloating dog on your surgical rotation).

And it's not good if the first time you try to manage an anaesthetic emergency is in your first month in practice, after hours, unsupervised, on someone's beloved pet (since you never got to practice it at your recovery-only school, since it never happened during a recovery surgery).

It is important to make sure that the animals we use are treated humanely and compassionately. But just banning all non-recovery surgeries is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

When I was doing some overseas work, I worked with one new grad vet from a British university where they did not do non-recovery surgeries. They were only allowed to operate on whatever happened to walk in the door, and had to recover all the animals, so the students only got the "easy" cases. I am not sure if it was just her, but she was the most incompetent, indecisive surgeon I have met in my life (although a lovely girl). I would not have let her anywhere near my animals. I would hate to graduate with as little experience as she had.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Staranais

[Steve]

So is this about stopping live animal studies or live animal studies on pound dogs?

[Nekhbet]

sorry I dont see the problem

veterinary surgeons need all the experience they can get before they are unleashed on the world and YOUR pets. You would be the first to bay for blood if something went wrong with your pet. If the animals are due for euthanasia then I dont see why people will be so angry - there is more to surgeries then desexing and not all pounds rehome enough animals in order to just have vets practice desexing.

After having to help a new vet with even getting a premed needle into an amstaffs bulging vein, who was as quiet as a mouse, I say the more supervised practice the better during uni

[cma076]

i believe in stead of using animals for experiments why not use the useless !@#$ in jail like the rapists or murders that would be ideal that is wat i call justice

[Jed]

The petition is very emotive, and presents things in the worst possible light.

The dogs used at UQ are those which were to be pts. They are taken to UQ, well handled, and cared for. The dogs are then anaethetised, and procedures performed on them. Knowing nothing from the time of anaesthesia, when they quietly fall asleep, they never awake.

UQ students do work in the uni vet clinic, so they observe operations, and take part in post operative care of the animals. The fact that they do operations on live animals gives them more expertise than if they had not done so. Operating on dead animals, or limbs or trunks does not give them full experience

These dogs are going to lose their lives no matter what. No dog is sent to UQ which has any other options. The options have all run out for these dogs. Let them go to UQ, be well treated, and anaethetised without fear, and out of the "killing" environment of the pound, and let them do a worthwhile thing for other dogs.

Students treat the animals ethically and with respect and regard.

Students who do not wish to participate are excused, by the way.

I would prefer a vet who had actually performed an operation to operate on my dog, not one who had never raised a scalpel to a living creature.

I would be the last person to ignore cruelty or vivesection, but there is no cruelty involved here, and many a vet has a pet dog which went through the program, and was awakened, because a student came to like him, and wanted to keep him. Not a lot - but some. I actually think this is more humane than going into the killing room at the pound to be euthansed.

The University of Queensland has advised that they use pound animals for training veterinary surgeons and in feeding trial research.3

As far as I am aware, the "feeding trial research" is conducted at the Companion Animal Centre at the Uni, and involves comparisons between types of (normal) dog food. 2 dogs might be fed type A, 2 fed type B, condition noted, weights taken. Not really such hard work for the dogs. And these dogs too, would have otherwise been euthed by the councils. At the end of the trials, they are put up for adoption, and kept until they are adopted. IMHO, a much better outcome than an end in the killing shed.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Jed

[raz]

i believe in stead of using animals for experiments why not use the useless !@#$ in jail like the rapists or murders that would be ideal that is wat i call justice

What century and country are you living in?

I cant see a problem with it. Vet students need to study on something, the dogs are under GA anyway and they were going to be euth'd. Why not blame the people who dumped them to start with, not the vet students.

[Aussienot]

It's not live ''animal experimenting'' as far as I understand it. Dogs that were going to die needlessly are anaesthetised instead. This allows veterinary students under instruction to practice on real animals. Then before regaining consciousness the animal is humanly euthanised as would have happened anyway. The animals feels no more pain than they would if they were humanly euthanised, and instead a senseless death, some good comes from it. I want my vets to have real world experience. I want them to practice their incisions and stitching on real flesh.

Sorry, not going to sign a petition to stop this practice, and just have the animals killed and dumped in landfill as they are now in most places. Yes there is a problem with unwanted animals in society, but ending this worthwhile program is not going to help that issue.

True animal experimentation on live animals is worth protesting, though. In many cases there are viable alternatives, and certainly for non medical purposes, like cosmetics, I'm against it.

In addition, personal experience at this shelter concludes that the greater majority of cats and dogs who are transported to UQ for educational use are likely to be animals/pets who would be considered adoptable.

Yes a lot of dogs who are euthanised could be considered 'adoptable' by a bleeding heart. I think this is just scare mongering and contradicts my understanding of the criteria for selecting dogs for the program. And your disclaimer does not wash with me. You posted it, you own it. Can't take a position, use emotive buzzword and then wrap yourself in a neutral disclaimer.

[casowner]

TAFE SA used greyhounds that were no longer required by their trainers, I would be walking one in the morning in the morning and then seeing him/her on the table for a non recovery procedure in the afternoon it was heartbreaking (don't know the current status). Emotively it is a very difficult situation but what is the answer? We need vet students to learn before they start practicing on our own pets so what is an alternative that will satisfy everyones beliefs?

[persephone]

cma76 some day , you may have no choice as to what vet sees your dog .I hope that day doesn't come .. but some day in an emergency, a new kid may have to be the one to make decisions about your pet.

I hope that new kid has experience with what is inside a warm, breathing animal..

We can read your posts using lower case letters , 'shouting' is not necessary :D

[JESSIE]

The end does not always justify the means and this is barbaric !!!!!!!!!!

[persephone]

this is barbaric

JESSIE can you tell me why you see it as barbaric? Is it more barbaric than injecting the animal at the pound? And why?

[Crisovar]

Fully anaesthetised animals that are operated on then not allowed to wake up, how is that barbaric?

The animals are treated well, handled with respect and are helping to teach vet students how to perform procedures that will benefit many loved pets.

[raz]

The end does not always justify the means and this is barbaric !!!!!!!!!!

This is barbaric this is barbaric. You've probably used pharamceuticals that were used on an animal at a university hospital. Where do you think those animals who were tested on for your benefit were sourced from? If your dog needs surgery, how do you think the vet who cut him open got to practise before slicing him open with a scalpel?

[Are You Serious Jo]

The end does not always justify the means and this is barbaric !!!!!!!!!!

Great, can you please post your address so everyone can send pound dogs that are on the PTS to you, kthxbi.

[WreckitWhippet]

There isn't anything barbaric about vet stundents learning.

Heartbreaking is euthing dogs, chucking them in a black plastic bag and dumping their bodies at the tip.

[Esky the husky]

If nothing else these pound dogs are serving a greater purpose.

Helping our future vets save lives.

IMO it allows them to die with dignity

[Crisovar]

There isn't anything barbaric about vet stundents learning.

Heartbreaking is euthing dogs, chucking them in a black plastic bag and dumping their bodies at the tip.

amen to that