Labkisses Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Hi guys Our girl went for an ultrasound at Day 30 of her pregnancy. The first ultrasound detected approx 6 puppies but there was a lot of gas so it made it hard for the vet to confirm numbers so she gave us a complimentary ultrasound in a weeks time. We had the second ultrasound done 6 days later and the vet could only detect 2 or 3 puppies. We saw at least 1 black blob (looked like an empty sac) and the vet said that there looks like there may be something wrong and gave her some antibiotics in case there is an infection. We are all assuming that she is either a. absorbing the puppies or b. she was hiding them really well around her rib area. Has anyone had experiences with their bitch absorbing? If yes, did she absorb all of the puppies? Could it be that the vet may not have been experienced enough in doing ultrasounds? (that's what i'm hoping!). This will be our girls second litter. First litter had 8 puppies - all detected easily with an ultrasound (different vet did it though). Out of the 8 puppies though she had 1 which looked like it was mummified and the last 2 to pass were stillborn. Our girl is up to date with all of her vaccinations, worming etc. She is in perfect condition etc so we're not sure why this is happening. Thank you in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I have had bitch's absorb entire litters and part litters. Normally when my girls have part absorbed litters there has only been empty sacks left. Normally you can tell by the shape of the sack ie if the outside of the sack is nice and rounded it should be good if it looks wobbly/wiggly it is not good. Hope that is understandable :D Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labkisses Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 I have had bitch's absorb entire litters and part litters. Normally when my girls have part absorbed litters there has only been empty sacks left.Normally you can tell by the shape of the sack ie if the outside of the sack is nice and rounded it should be good if it looks wobbly/wiggly it is not good. Hope that is understandable :D Leanne Thanks Leanne - as far as I remember the empty black blobs/sacks looked rounded. When we saw the sacks with the puppies you could definetley see there was a pup in there. Gosh, I hope that she doesnt reabsorb the whole litter if she has started :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I can remember years ago taking a bitch in at day 28 and counted 13 sacks but not all looked good, went back at day 42 and there was none :D . Had a bitch that had 7 pups at day 28 all looked good and delivered 4 pups. Keeping everything crossed for a good outcome with your girl. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Labkisses, have a look at the Progesterone thread here in breeders, you might need to get your girl's levels checked. fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) PS: good to read she's on AB's too, We see quite a few absorbsions/losses through infection at the clinic. Keep an eye out for discharge. fifi Edited November 12, 2010 by fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I would get her progesterone levels checked. Hopefully she holds onto those puppies! Do read the thread i started and the link within it that someone else posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Yep check prog levels. I have had a bitch reabsorb all bar one puppy. We thought she'd reabsorbed the lot, so were not prepared AT ALL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labkisses Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 Thanks everyone for your replies I read the Progesterone thread and it was very interesting. Unfortunately where we will the prog tests need to be sent away and they take days to come back. I'll be asking my vet about it though. I spoke to the vet again this afternoon and she suggested getting another ultrasound done in a week to see if there is any more change. I probably will get someone else to do the actual ultrasound next time though because I don't feel confident in her doing it again. When bitches absorb, do they stop getting bigger in the latter stages of pregnancy? Or do they look like they're still holding pups but just don't go into labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) I think even though it takes a few days to get results have the blood taken and sent off to get the levels anyway, you may have time to supplement if needed and also if she does end up losing them all at the very least you 'may know' if that was the reason for it. It takes 24hrs to get results back here, it is quite hard to make things work when it's like that! Edited November 12, 2010 by HANNAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 You cant find a vet who does faster prog test turn around? My bitch never looked pregnant, and in fact I had decided she wasnt. Until she started nesting, so took her for ultrasound, to find one live puppy, and a few "black holes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I watched a bitch absorb once...took her in at 30 days but the blobs didn't quite look right.....not compared to what they should look like at that time in the gestation...THREE days later, the blobs were shrinking and most were gone....TWO days after that,,,nothing. The trick with this sort of thing is watch VERY closely for Pyo. I didn't have it that time, but it's a higher risk when something like this happens. Bitch went on the next time to have a normal litter without incident for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 That's a good point with the Pyo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashnchief Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 The trick with this sort of thing is watch VERY closely for Pyo. I didn't have it that time, but it's a higher risk when something like this happens. I have had a bitch absorb 3 times now....and yes she has issues with prog levels throughout the pregnancy. After the first 2 occasions, I spoke with Phil Thomas the 'Repo Guru' here in QLD as pyo and any other type of uterine damage was a concern for me. Phil confirmed that they are at no greater risk of Pyo from reabsorbing a litter. Generally, prog levels of 40nmol or below is entering the danger zone. However, every bitch is different and I have heard of bitches that have been supplemented after prog dropping below 20nmol and gone on to have successful litters. My bitch on the other hand drops below 60nmol and we know we are in for trouble, it really depends on how quickly the progesterone is dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I"ll disagree with that, based not on science but on actual experience. Pyo is infection, abnormalities in the uterus lead the area to more sensitivity although pyo occurs in other cases as well. Many have said the risk of pyo happens only when a bitch is taken outside to areas when in season using the open cervix arguement, however there is no documentation that this actually occurs. The other thing we heard for years was that a bitch can only contract pyo once it's had a litter..not sure who made that one up. Bottom line is if there is a uterus, the bitch has a possibility of contracting Pyo. What is important to remember is that all forms of this are not the same and there are cases where there is fluid in the uterus but does not manifest to the degree that it can in other bitches resulting with the worst case scenario of death. The only sure way to avoid the problem is spay...that not being an option for those of us that breed, a simple course of antibods after a suspected or known absorbtion is a smart way to go. Prevention is always far easier than what it can take to heal the problem in many cases. As for the arguement that absorbtion can not cause harm to the uterus, I also question this statement as I have seen first hand this body part after multiple cases of absorbtion. Clear thickening and fibriod tissue was apparent in the area where a whelp would have been attached. Not saying this is any different in many ways that a bitch having a normal pregnancy where we have seen tissue damage occur, however again, I'll opt for a degree of prevention where possible as the books aren't always read by the bitches and as we know, they tend to do whatever they want and keep us all guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I have had a few bitch's absorb and never had any signs of pyo. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestone Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I think even though it takes a few days to get results have the blood taken and sent off to get the levels anyway, you may have time to supplement if needed and also if she does end up losing them all at the very least you 'may know' if that was the reason for it.It takes 24hrs to get results back here, it is quite hard to make things work when it's like that! Our vet uses state of the art technology but she did me that if it takes a while to get results back on prog tests it is best to ultrasound at 28 days and prog test then if there are any concerns you then have time to get the results back.Interesting to note about the Pyo. When I take the other girl in on Tuesday I will ask her what the incidence of the two toegther is. She deals with greyhound breeders on a daily basis so sees a mulitude of problems on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestone Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I asked at our vet about the association between bitches absorbing and Pyo. She did say there is no direct association between the two but she did tell me that in the last 3 years she had only seen two bitches that had absorbed that presented with pyo. I did tell her why I was asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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