Under Cover Pet Shop Assistant On Today Tonight?

[m-j]

IT IS FAR TOO EASY FOR PEOPLE TO GIVE UP ON THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AS ANIMAL OWNERS.

"The pounds and shelters will take the dog and find a new owner for it" ...

that is the message that is going to the public

While I do see your point of view, if people don't have this option irresponsible people will still give up on the dog with the "hairy bits" maybe not as "humanely" though. In the past dumping dogs and other unwanted pets "out the road" was not all that uncommon.

Farmers have to contend with loss of livelihood, with dogs that have gone feral, which have been disposed of in just such a manner (these are the ones that have adapted rather than dying).

I believe that people need to be educated before they get their pet, that dogs and other pets can have hairy bits and if you don't think you can deal with them, don't get that pet.

Edited November 15, 2010 by m-j

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Well I think it might be prudent to do more housechecks than less, even for breeders.

Just heard about a breeder who did a spot check after the puppy had been in the home a few months. I won't name the breed except to say it is a toy breed and the puppy was found chained in the backyard ...

I have uncovered all sorts of issues during homechecks, mainly in the backyards. There have been sheer cliff drops (unfenced of course), yards full of Wandering Jew (the home owners had no idea about it), no fences, knee high fences, 101 things. Some people have fixed them up, sure they have and some couldn't give a flying f---. What the hell, there's plenty more where that came from.

[SpikesPuppy]

Every one of my puppy buyers visited before they were accepted as a suitable family, some came several times- I was surprisingly comfortable with having themnover, maybe because I knew they were there for tw dogs not to inspect me??

Anyway it was rather useful to assess how they responded to my dogs (who were rung rampant at the time, with the exception of small children visitors they jumped, shed, salivated, barked- everything a Border Terrrier does! Sure fire way to see if they were really ready for one.

I felt comfortable with my eventual puppy buyers which to me, removed the need for a home check. If I didn't feel comfortable, I told them to look elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you have fencing like Alcatraz, if you're not a doggy person I'm not selling you a puppy!!

Agree with Souff (think it was), it is far too easy to give a dog up. An I'll betthat the majority of people who surrender a pet for whatever reason, are the type who will go get another unsuitable replacement and so the cycles keeps rotating around and around!! Forget about the people selling the dogs and think about the people BUYING THEM!!! it's not pet shops that dump animals, it's the people who buy them. Nothing new though, removing responsibility hey. It's kind of like smoking, people choose to do it but blame the tobacco company for their issues.

I personally would like to see a prime time advertising campaign featuring 3 dozen dead dogs in a pile, the result of thoughtless purchase. It's not the pet shops or even the puppy farms that are the problem, it is the consumer!

[Shazzapug]

Every one of my puppy buyers visited before they were accepted as a suitable family, some came several times- I was surprisingly comfortable with having themnover, maybe because I knew they were there for tw dogs not to inspect me??

Anyway it was rather useful to assess how they responded to my dogs (who were rung rampant at the time, with the exception of small children visitors they jumped, shed, salivated, barked- everything a Border Terrrier does! Sure fire way to see if they were really ready for one.

I felt comfortable with my eventual puppy buyers which to me, removed the need for a home check. If I didn't feel comfortable, I told them to look elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you have fencing like Alcatraz, if you're not a doggy person I'm not selling you a puppy!!

Agree with Souff (think it was), it is far too easy to give a dog up. An I'll betthat the majority of people who surrender a pet for whatever reason, are the type who will go get another unsuitable replacement and so the cycles keeps rotating around and around!! Forget about the people selling the dogs and think about the people BUYING THEM!!! it's not pet shops that dump animals, it's the people who buy them. Nothing new though, removing responsibility hey. It's kind of like smoking, people choose to do it but blame the tobacco company for their issues.

I personally would like to see a prime time advertising campaign featuring 3 dozen dead dogs in a pile, the result of thoughtless purchase. It's not the pet shops or even the puppy farms that are the problem, it is the consumer!

Its called selling to the right postcodes.....if I dont like the way they sound on the phone then they dont get to come to my property to see the puppy.

[Souff]

While I do see your point of view, if people don't have this option irresponsible people will still give up on the dog with the "hairy bits" maybe not as "humanely" though. In the past dumping dogs and other unwanted pets "out the road" was not all that uncommon.

You are not the first person to tell me that more people will dump more dogs by the side of the road if we don't make it easy for them to surrender.

Sorry, but this is an old chestnut.

People who know their dog is microchipped are not going to leave the dog by the side of the road because the dog will be brought back to them!

And, even with pounds and shelters available to them, the dumping of unmicrochipped pups and kittens in the box by the side of the road still happens anyway.

No sorry, a message needs to get out there.

"Don't get a dog if you are not prepared to devote 10 or 15 years of your life to commitment to that dog. It is YOUR dog and YOU are responsible for it."

[Souff]

It's not the pet shops or even the puppy farms that are the problem, it is the consumer!

Spot on!

[SpikesPuppy]

Every one of my puppy buyers visited before they were accepted as a suitable family, some came several times- I was surprisingly comfortable with having themnover, maybe because I knew they were there for tw dogs not to inspect me??

Anyway it was rather useful to assess how they responded to my dogs (who were rung rampant at the time, with the exception of small children visitors they jumped, shed, salivated, barked- everything a Border Terrrier does! Sure fire way to see if they were really ready for one.

I felt comfortable with my eventual puppy buyers which to me, removed the need for a home check. If I didn't feel comfortable, I told them to look elsewhere. Doesn't matter if you have fencing like Alcatraz, if you're not a doggy person I'm not selling you a puppy!!

Agree with Souff (think it was), it is far too easy to give a dog up. An I'll betthat the majority of people who surrender a pet for whatever reason, are the type who will go get another unsuitable replacement and so the cycles keeps rotating around and around!! Forget about the people selling the dogs and think about the people BUYING THEM!!! it's not pet shops that dump animals, it's the people who buy them. Nothing new though, removing responsibility hey. It's kind of like smoking, people choose to do it but blame the tobacco company for their issues.

I personally would like to see a prime time advertising campaign featuring 3 dozen dead dogs in a pile, the result of thoughtless purchase. It's not the pet shops or even the puppy farms that are the problem, it is the consumer!

Its called selling to the right postcodes.....if I dont like the way they sound on the phone then they dont get to come to my property to see the puppy.

Yes and no- I turned 2 potential owners away not because I doubt they would make great dog owners but because they didn't interact with the dogs as I wanted them too. My dogs are mad and I love them for it and if someone is uncomfortable with a dog like Caber for example, then my particular puppies would be unsuitable. There are plenty of quieter pups available.

I'm not sure what someones postcode has to do with anything though?

[Shmurps]

I have always believed that "pets are for life" however pet shops and a like make it easy for the "consumer" to purchase one.

We are such a disposal and busy society.

[shortstep]

Lets take Animal Liberation Victoria, which recently held the rally that many here supported.

This statement is from their web page that is typical mission of animal liberationist.

http://www.alv.org.au/about.php

TO ABOLISH THE PROPERTY STATUS OF ANIMALS

Animal Liberation Victoria endorses an animal rights position which maintains that all sentient beings, regardless of species, have the right to be treated as independent entities, and not as the property of others.

This is the mantra of extremists.

This is the mantra of PETA.

ANIMAL LIBERATION VICTORIA = PETA

As somebody else said in this thread ... if you want a future where human beings can own a dog as a pet, or to be able to breed from a dog ....

BE VERY CAREFUL WHERE YOU PUT YOUR ALLEGIANCES and particularly, DO NOT DONATE ANY MONEY to these causes.

Every time YOU give a donation to animal liberationist movements YOU ARE INCREASING the odds AGAINST PET OWNERSHIP

EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS are about power and egos and politics.

EXTREMIST ORGANISATIONS are not seeking a viable future for animals.

Souff

For those who does not understand why she did not recommend ANKC breeders and only recommended the animal shelters.

Animal Rights Advocates Inc Australia

While the very notion of breeding other animals to be entirely dependent on human guardians is exploitative and needs to be challenged, we have a responsibility to take care of those that we have already brought into existence.

Edited November 15, 2010 by shortstep

[Tim'sMum]

I would buy a puppy from a pet shop any day over having someone inspect me and my home before they would sell me a puppy. If you cnat trust what the person is telling you - then you shouldnt be considering selling them the pup in the first place.

So you think it is worth the risk to place a rescued dog into an unknown situation...just in case a home check offends a prospective buyer? A dog that has already lost one home through whatever circumstances?

I think any rescuer, or breeder has a right to know that a dog or puppy they sell is going to a safe, secure home with adequate yard space for the breed. Having rehomed a Kelpie X, there is no way I would had let someone have her who worked full time and lived in an apartment or only had a small courtyard. I knew the dog and knew what was the best type of home for her....and don't necessarily believe what people may tell me over the phone. It was easy...unless I did a home check, they didn't get the dog, and could go elsewhere.

[Steve]

I would buy a puppy from a pet shop any day over having someone inspect me and my home before they would sell me a puppy. If you cnat trust what the person is telling you - then you shouldnt be considering selling them the pup in the first place.

So you think it is worth the risk to place a rescued dog into an unknown situation...just in case a home check offends a prospective buyer? A dog that has already lost one home through whatever circumstances?

I think any rescuer, or breeder has a right to know that a dog or puppy they sell is going to a safe, secure home with adequate yard space for the breed. Having rehomed a Kelpie X, there is no way I would had let someone have her who worked full time and lived in an apartment or only had a small courtyard. I knew the dog and knew what was the best type of home for her....and don't necessarily believe what people may tell me over the phone. It was easy...unless I did a home check, they didn't get the dog, and could go elsewhere.

That's O.K. its your choice but its also my choice not to consider taking a dog which is reliant on me passing some test with fuzzy criteria and being inspected and the fact is that most Australians who want to buy a pup feel the same way - right or wrong - risky or not - thats how it is.

Ive known lots of people who had wonderful fences and yards and nice tidy clean homes with no wandering jew and their kids out of Pjs at 8 am who still dump their dog.

[Souff]

I have always believed that "pets are for life"

Unfortunately many people just see it as just another slogan and when the crunch comes and the dog has to go, it is the furthest thing from their mind because we are not in their face reminding them, and if we were, they wouldn't want to listen anyway because it is not enforceable.

It is a good message but it needs to be strengthened.

Why are the grim reaper HIV ads coming to the forefront of my brain?

Why can I see images of puppy and dog skeletons beside a road, with collars and name tags on them?

Doesn't matter, I don't work for a powerful advertising agency.

Souff

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Buying a puppy from a pet shop supports a vile industry, full stop. Anyone that considers it OK to buy a dog from a petshop ignores or perhaps doesn't care about that. How that would be, I just don't understand, until society stands up and says that it isn't OK and actually supports it, then it will continue.

My homecheck criteria is not "woolly" by any means. It is checking for anything unsafe for a dog. You'd be very surprised how many people declare their yards fully fenced, then you go and do a check and they aren't.

Yes, anyone can dump a dog no matter where they got it from but making purchasing an animal as easy as swiping your credit card is not the answer.

My rescue group had 5 direct surrenders of dogs purchased from petshops within the first 5 months of the year. Probably the ones we took from the pound mostly had the same origin or were from BYBs and purchased online.

With the first 5 dogs from the petshops, all the owners admitted they were bought on a whim, they were not told anything about the type of dog they bought. The 5 were all from a local petshop, part of a chain. One person had the puppy for a couple of weeks and "got bored with it" so rehomed it to an elderly couple. They found it wasn't housetrained so put it outside, problem was they had no fencing so the dog kept getting picked up by the ranger so they gave it back to the original owner after the 3rd round of impounding.

We've since had other surrendered petshop purchases but from different petshops. And this is just a drop in the ocean.

TAKE THE TEMPTATION OF PETSHOP WINDOWS AWAY. I no longer want to witness people with kids asking for a dog and parents complying - I hear too many parents tell me that was the only reason why they bought the dog - to shut the kids up. Then the kids got bored with it ....

Edited November 16, 2010 by dogmad

[Souff]

Dogmad,

In recent years I have seen as many owners surrendering dogs that they bought from breeders. I am no longer convinced that it is just pet shop buyers who surrender their dogs.

Why do they do it?

Often it is because they have not really thought through HOW MUCH AVAILABLE TIME they have to put into training and to spend time with their dog.

The reality is that most families today have far less available time to spend with their dog than families of say 20 years ago. Dad is often spending vast amounts of time behind the wheel, driving long distances to go to work and back home, Mum works more locally but is spending most of her afternoons ferrying kids to the various activities. The dog? Oh it gets some time with them when they all get home.

It is not enough time.

I would like to hear from obedience and agility instructors to know how many family people are at classes, vs how many single people.

From what I have observed a high percentage of people who surrender dogs are family people.

The cost of maintaining a medium sized breed that needs to be regularly groomed is now getting beyond the reach of many families. The cost of maintaining a large breed dog can be totally out of reach for many families. Many families underestimate the cost of having a dog and if they have a dog that is at the vet a lot, there is a very high chance that the dog will be surrendered eventually.

These are the realities of life today.

Impulse buying is still part of the picture, most definitely, but dogs that are surrendered have been purchased from breeders as well as pet shops.

Souff

[Remarkabull]

I'm with you Souff.

The person I mentioned in an earlier post purchased 3 of the dogs from RSPCA herself before taking them back there a year later. One dog from a pet shop and one from a registered breeder. They all ended up in the same place because she couldn't be bothered.

They were 'too hard' to toilet train so they were chucked into the back yard. Feeding time usually consisted of her 13 year old daughter chucking a couple of cups of dog food over the verandah into the yard and the dogs would race around trying to get what they could. Because they were so bored they started barking and became destructive, neighbours complained, so the dogs went. The RSPCA pts all of the dogs she surrendered.

The rats were living in filthy, overcrowded cages and the house stunk to high heaven! This lady did not work, she had all the time in the world to do the right thing by these animals but was too lazy. She wanted a dog like mine - toilet trained, mostly obedient, non destructive. She didn't get that they didn't come that way, I had to put in the effort to get them like that. So many people think that they got a 'dud' dog because it isn't like Joe Blows over there, well trained and well behaved, without realising that it takes hard work to get that result. So dump the 'stupid' dog and start over with another one. It's too easy.

[perrin]

The problem as i see it is that for a lot of us when we want something we want it then and there.

We also want it to come toilet trained, house trained, obedience trained. We want something that knows exactly what it is supposed to do at any given time. We want something that can groom itself, cut it's own toenails, worm and flea itself, feed itself.

We want something on our terms. God forbid the dog might have a brain and grow bored and get destructive because it doesn't fit in with our schedule.

When it all gets too hard or it makes you angry one too many times then we get rid of it. For some the novelty of having a pet wears off quickly. For others it might take some time. Poor pet shoved outside with no interaction other than feeding- if we remember. No one to play with. Starts digging holes and ruining stuff.

We are a wasteful society.

It's cheaper to get rid of the old and get the new. That way you don't have to pay costs associated with fixing it. And you can upgrade at the same time.

[asal]

its odd that the dumpers are not the one being targeted for education before they buy.

its breeders being blamed for the number of dogs being dumped or surrendered.

making less dogs available for purchase, isnt going to weed out the dump or surrender mentality people, they need to be educated or disuaded from getting one in the first place.

how is making it harder to actually find a dog going to address the throw away mentality? that doesnt seem to be on the radar yet?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Asal - I think it is most definitely on the radar of those that operate the pounds and those that rescue from the pounds.

Many are still oblivious. Much more publicity is needed as are programs that educate children so they don't follow in the footsteps of their parents if they have parents that don't regard animals as part of the family and something to be cared for during it's natural lifespan, including the animal and planning for holidays well in advance, vets bills and so on.

Edited November 16, 2010 by dogmad

[Sheridan]

Yes and no- I turned 2 potential owners away not because I doubt they would make great dog owners but because they didn't interact with the dogs as I wanted them too. My dogs are mad and I love them for it and if someone is uncomfortable with a dog like Caber for example, then my particular puppies would be unsuitable. There are plenty of quieter pups available.

I'm pretty sure getting down on the floor and play fighting with the breeder's wheaten and kerry helped me ... Indeed, did my response to the question, 'And what experience have you had with Irish dogs before?' My answer was, 'Our last dog was a kerry and the previous one was an irish terrier.' Breeder said, 'Ah, well, you'll be okay with a wheaten then.'

I'm not sure what someones postcode has to do with anything though?

Me either

[Steve]

2148 Blacktown They were on the Telly last week. Bad dog owners there :D