Inflammatory Bowel Disease/colitis

[mita]

Our young Annie was brimming with good health. Then in August, she suddenly got uncontrollable sloppy poos in the night-time.

The vet was puzzled because she said Annie was already on a close to perfect diet.

It was scaled back to just basmati rice & lightly cooked chicken breast. But as soon as any kibble was added (specialist ones like for digestion & for allergies), back came the attacks. When they happened, the medication Metragyl cleared them in days. But I wanted to prevent them happening in the first place. Because she is so uncomfortable when they happen....her innards rumble & she lies with her tummy up towards the sun, like using a hot water bottle. The total opposite to the happy, sparky little dog who loves to play with the greyhounds next door.

She's had blood tests (nothing found!), faecal analysis (nothing) and an ultra-sound (nothing). The vet is thinking Inflammatory Bowel Disease which is medical in origin, not simply the results of diet. But diet gets affected. She's back on just rice & chicken. I've found she can tolerate Farex rice cereal for babies....it has some iron & antioxidants in it. Tho' when we just added some baby liquid vitamins, she got the runny poos again....with all the other signs of discomfort.

The real problem is how to prevent these attacks & how to get some nutrition into her. It's awful to see such a gorgeous-natured little dog laid low by this colitis.

A further diagnostic step can be to take samples from her bowel walls for biopsy to see how thick the inflammed cells are. Either mild, moderate or severe. I don't know about that....as the management would still be much the same.

I'd really appreciate hearing if anyone else has had or still has this chronic colitis-type problem with their dog????

Edited November 10, 2010 by mita

[stormie]

Sorry to hear about Annie's unhappy tummy.

Did they also rule out EPI? I haven't had a lot of experience with IBD in dogs - mostly cats, all of which were diagnosed by biopsies of the bowel. They were mostly managed with prescription diets and AB's when required.

Is it an option for you to visit a specialist?

[mita]

Stormie, the tests so far ruled out anything to do with pancreatitis.

After Annie's first bowel-rest of having just chicken & rice, the vet tried prescription diet for digestive problems. But Annie got a runny poos attack.

Then they tried the prescription diet for allergies. Same unhappy result.

The vet herself took Annie to the specialists for the ultra-sound & talked with the specialist while it was being done.

I'm interested you've said the puss-cats had the bowel biopsy for a definite diagnosis. That would be the next diagnostic step for Annie. I was not keen, but what you've said makes me re-think this.

Meantime, the vets are pretty sure it's Inflammatory Bowel Disease. And she's responded well to the Metragyl when the runny poos happen. The biggest problem is getting some nutrition into her...when so many things, including the prescription kibble diets, set it off.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Sorry to hear this Mita, my old IG Luigi was diagnosed with this awful disease after many months of special diets and tests. He finally had an endoscopy and that showed IBD.

Initially he was put on the special Hills Science only diet plus Pred. It was awful and his behaviour was difficult. He didn't like the food and as a rescued dog who'd had a life of cruelty most likely including starvation, it was a difficult to manage situation.

In 2003, after 3 years on the diet/Pred, I felt I could no longer cope with his behaviour and if it hadn't been for a wonderful vet, I probably would have made a sad decision. She changed from the Pred to an old fashioned pill - Salazopyrin. Once he went on that, he was no longer such a basket case.

I also went on the web and found a woman whose dog had IBD, she gave her dog sweet potato - I tried it on Luigi and he loved it. I became a bit braver and tried different things such as carrot, peas etc. It all helped to make his dried food more palatable.

As it is the protein in meat that causes the internal bleeding, I occasionally put tuna/salmon and other fish into his food, no more than twice weekly though.

I also occasionally tried a dried biscuit made from duck, can't recall the brand but its pretty expensive.

About once a year he'd find some discarded food on our walks (I was very careful but you can't predict everything) and he'd end up in the vets on a drip for a couple of days.

A couple of years ago they brought out a canned version of his food which he quite enjoyed intially but got bored eventually.

He died last year, aged about 16, and not from IBD.

[mita]

Thank you, Dogmad! You & Stormie have answered the questions I was nervously wondering about! :D

I'll now take the step of getting Annie's bowel tissue sampled.

I was wondering about adding some kind of vegetables, but couldn't figure what might not set her off. Sweet potato was top of my questiion list....because it's so nutritious for humans. Also I wondered about some tuna....for the fish oil in it.

By coincidence, the vet metioned there was an older med that still proved helpful for IBD...& I wonder if it might be Salazopyrin. I'll bring it up with her.

Fortunately, Annie has a truly glorious nature & happily chomps down whatever's given her. It's the runny poos that can happen afterwards....& her discomfort and being so downed. I feel truly dreadful watching this happen. It makes me so nervous about adding anything on to the chicken & rice & Farex. But she desperately needs more nutrition.

ADDED: I googled Salazopyrin & it led me to this site. Has the best info on IBD I've found. Med of choice is Salazopoyrin.

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings...7&O=Generic

Edited November 10, 2010 by mita

[Erny]

Pardon my hijack, Mita - I hope you don't mind. And pardon what is likely to be a really really dumb question, and I'm not even sure how I will phrase it. But here goes.

When the dog is having an endoscopy for the purpose of diagnosing (or not) IBD, what else could "inflammation" actually be? I mean, if a dog has colitis or runny poop, isn't it going to follow that the bowel is irritated? So, this is making me think that the endoscopy can identify the inflammation as specifically IBD as opposed to irritated just because of some other reason.

I so hope this doesn't sound as silly as it does just typing it. I know what I mean :D.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Erny

[Stitch]

IBD or IBS is different in different dogs so you may find you can control it fairly easily.

Personally I found using Hills I/D worked for my girl, then I started her on Hills Sensitive Stomach and so far it is just fine.

I initially thought it would be easier cooking the chicken and rice but found that the dry food was tolerated better.

Liver is a definite no no for my girl.

[Staranais]

My understanding is that they will usually take several tiny biopsies through the endoscope, which are sent off to the lab for histology, & the cell types they see in the biopsy help classify the types of inflammation.

The way they taught me, you can only make a definitive diagnosis of IBD is made when two things happen - the biopsy is consistent with IBD, and you've ruling out any other possible inciting cause of inflammation or diarrhoea (of which there are lots).

[Erny]

Aahhhhh. So there are different types of inflammation? I didn't know that.

Thanks Staranais.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Erny

[mita]

My understanding is that they will usually take several tiny biopsies through the endoscope, which are sent off to the lab for histology, & the cell types they see in the biopsy help classify the types of inflammation.

The way they taught me, you can only make a definitive diagnosis of IBD is made when two things happen - the biopsy is consistent with IBD, and you've ruling out any other possible inciting cause of inflammation or diarrhoea (of which there are lots).

All this is a steep learning curve for me, too. So that was no thread-jacking, Erny. You got an answer I needed to know!!!

Staranais, you've given me more reason why it'll be necessary to have those biopsies done. I'd been wrongly thinking....well if they're pretty sure it's Inflammatory Bowel Disease, why do something invasive. Now I understand it's an essential part of making a real diagnosis.

Got to admit, I'm puzzled why it came on so suddenly & full-on. Annie's nearly 4 years old & has been the picture of health. She didn't gradually start having bowel problems that got worse.

[wallabokkie]

Wow Mita, your story sounds similar to mine! I have a 4yr old female Siberian Husky. Her problems started 2 years ago when I began feeding her marrow bone. This made her really sick and vomit. I was feeding her beef and vegies mixed with dry food, cooking it all for her, thinking I was being a really caring mum, but this too made her so very sick. She was in hospital on a drip. I stopped giving her anything like that and she has been eating dry food only now, Advance Turkey and Rice with very few problems until this year when she got into some of the other dog's food, and I was naughty and gave her some dog carob and cheese - this all put her in hospital again with the symptoms you speak of, rumbly tummy, sore bottom - she whimpers and appears to be trying to run away from her bottom, sloppy poos, it's awful. she too was treated with metrogyl and for the last few months I have made sure the Turkey and rice is the only thing she gets and it has been a lot better.

I was really heartened to read 'dogmad's' reply to your post. To hear that with persistance and the right help and advice these dogs can go one to live a long and healthy life. I have been feeling extremely distressed by this condition. We also have had blood tests, faecal tests and ultra sounds and all signs point to inflammtory bowel disease with a biopsy being the next step fpr us too. I just want my girl to be happy and healthy. My only intention has ever been to give her the best life I possibly can. I have been really unsure what to expect, what else I can feed her, wondering is there medicine to make her more comfortable / prevent this problem? I hope to work more closely with our vet in the future to figure all this out. So thanks for putting this up and to dogmad for your information also.

[westiemum]

Hi Mita, Just thinking about kibble generally and inflamed intestines and bowels (as you do on a Sunday afternoon! ). My Sarah, 9 year old westie, is the healthiest happiest girl who 'smiles' all the time - to the point she is known as the 'Goldie Hawn of the westie world!

In early 2007 she had her first bout of what we are fairly sure was HGE (Haemorrhagic Gastroenteritis). She had a mild recurrence/relapse 12 months later and appears to have had a her latest bout last night/this morning - she is coming home from the vet late this afternoon or early this evening, usually on a bland diet and antibiotics. The trick with HGE, which can be fatal if left untreated is to catch it early, not muck around and get the dog to the vet quick smart, rehydrate and use some antibiotics and/or steroids - so I'm getting good at picking it early with her - not even overnight in the vet this time ).

To the point of my post: I'm beginning to wonder about kibble generally being suitable for these dogs with tummies prone to upset - particularly as they get older and seem to get more sensitive tummies - even the so called specialist kibbles. I'm no vet but I'm beginning to think that they are somehow hard for these dogs to digest and somehow are part of the irritation process, quietly 'grinding away' over time (too fibrous?) until it suddenly goes clinical and you have the intestine/bowel symptoms. Then once they've gone clinical - it takes very little to get them to that point again - hence the rapid recurrence.

I would be inclined, if your vet agrees, to try Annie on the Hills canned bland stuff (can't remember what its called) for a week or so to see it that helps settle her tummy while keeping her nutrition up and then gradually try her on some sweet potato, maybe some pumpkin, black and gold frozen mixed veg (not the Coles or the Woolies ones) and then later some kangaroo (lean and hypoallergenic, from the supermarket - not the pet stuff with the pet dye in it) and then other raw foods she might be able tolerate. I've found Sarah does very well on these foods - and after a bout of upset gets her back to normal fairly quickly and easily.

Anyway, just some thoughts and theories - let us know how you get on?

[wallabokkie]

Have any of you heard of / tried Vets All Natural diet? Developed by Dr Symes (an Aussie Vet) based on raw food dogs would normally eat in the wild. he claims to have had success in controlling bowel diseases using this.

Hi Mita, Just thinking about kibble generally and inflamed intestines and bowels (as you do on a Sunday afternoon! ). My Sarah, 9 year old westie, is the healthiest happiest girl who 'smiles' all the time - to the point she is known as the 'Goldie Hawn of the westie world!

In early 2007 she had her first bout of what we are fairly sure was HGE (Haemorrhagic Gastroenteritis). She had a mild recurrence/relapse 12 months later and appears to have had a her latest bout last night/this morning - she is coming home from the vet late this afternoon or early this evening, usually on a bland diet and antibiotics. The trick with HGE, which can be fatal if left untreated is to catch it early, not muck around and get the dog to the vet quick smart, rehydrate and use some antibiotics and/or steroids - so I'm getting good at picking it early with her - not even overnight in the vet this time ).

To the point of my post: I'm beginning to wonder about kibble generally being suitable for these dogs with tummies prone to upset - particularly as they get older and seem to get more sensitive tummies - even the so called specialist kibbles. I'm no vet but I'm beginning to think that they are somehow hard for these dogs to digest and somehow are part of the irritation process, quietly 'grinding away' over time (too fibrous?) until it suddenly goes clinical and you have the intestine/bowel symptoms. Then once they've gone clinical - it takes very little to get them to that point again - hence the rapid recurrence.

I would be inclined, if your vet agrees, to try Annie on the Hills canned bland stuff (can't remember what its called) for a week or so to see it that helps settle her tummy while keeping her nutrition up and then gradually try her on some sweet potato, maybe some pumpkin, black and gold frozen mixed veg (not the Coles or the Woolies ones) and then later some kangaroo (lean and hypoallergenic, from the supermarket - not the pet stuff with the pet dye in it) and then other raw foods she might be able tolerate. I've found Sarah does very well on these foods - and after a bout of upset gets her back to normal fairly quickly and easily.

Anyway, just some thoughts and theories - let us know how you get on?

[westiemum]

No wallbokkie, must admit I haven't... [off to google...] - I usually use the 'Billinghurst' (have I got that name right?) patties and have found them very good.

Have any of you heard of / tried Vets All Natural diet? Developed by Dr Symes (an Aussie Vet) based on raw food dogs would normally eat in the wild. he claims to have had success in controlling bowel diseases using this.

Hi Mita, Just thinking about kibble generally and inflamed intestines and bowels (as you do on a Sunday afternoon! ). My Sarah, 9 year old westie, is the healthiest happiest girl who 'smiles' all the time - to the point she is known as the 'Goldie Hawn of the westie world!

In early 2007 she had her first bout of what we are fairly sure was HGE (Haemorrhagic Gastroenteritis). She had a mild recurrence/relapse 12 months later and appears to have had a her latest bout last night/this morning - she is coming home from the vet late this afternoon or early this evening, usually on a bland diet and antibiotics. The trick with HGE, which can be fatal if left untreated is to catch it early, not muck around and get the dog to the vet quick smart, rehydrate and use some antibiotics and/or steroids - so I'm getting good at picking it early with her - not even overnight in the vet this time ).

To the point of my post: I'm beginning to wonder about kibble generally being suitable for these dogs with tummies prone to upset - particularly as they get older and seem to get more sensitive tummies - even the so called specialist kibbles. I'm no vet but I'm beginning to think that they are somehow hard for these dogs to digest and somehow are part of the irritation process, quietly 'grinding away' over time (too fibrous?) until it suddenly goes clinical and you have the intestine/bowel symptoms. Then once they've gone clinical - it takes very little to get them to that point again - hence the rapid recurrence.

I would be inclined, if your vet agrees, to try Annie on the Hills canned bland stuff (can't remember what its called) for a week or so to see it that helps settle her tummy while keeping her nutrition up and then gradually try her on some sweet potato, maybe some pumpkin, black and gold frozen mixed veg (not the Coles or the Woolies ones) and then later some kangaroo (lean and hypoallergenic, from the supermarket - not the pet stuff with the pet dye in it) and then other raw foods she might be able tolerate. I've found Sarah does very well on these foods - and after a bout of upset gets her back to normal fairly quickly and easily.

Anyway, just some thoughts and theories - let us know how you get on?

[westiemum]

A quick glance at the vets all natural - looks OK if you like feeding commercial... although I still prefer to feed my guys raw ingredients where I know exactly what they are getting - and its all human grade...

[sheena]

A quick glance at the vets all natural - looks OK if you like feeding commercial... although I still prefer to feed my guys raw ingredients where I know exactly what they are getting - and its all human grade...

I feed my girl Vets All Natural with meat added. She is doing well on it, but has never had any health problems, so can't help you there. All the ingredients are raw & are in a dehydrated form, which you add water to let stand for 24 hours, before adding meat etc. She also gets any vegies left over from our meal.

[mita]

To the point of my post: I'm beginning to wonder about kibble generally being suitable for these dogs with tummies prone to upset - particularly as they get older and seem to get more sensitive tummies - even the so called specialist kibbles. I'm no vet but I'm beginning to think that they are somehow hard for these dogs to digest and somehow are part of the irritation process, quietly 'grinding away' over time (too fibrous?) until it suddenly goes clinical and you have the intestine/bowel symptoms. Then once they've gone clinical - it takes very little to get them to that point again - hence the rapid recurrence.

Westie, you have psychic powers. That's exactly what a couple of the really experienced US tibbie breeders told me. They think there are some tibs that don't do well on kibble, even the specialist kind. (When the vets tried Annie on Science Digestion & also Science Allergy & Royal Canin Allergy, the all triggered off a run of very sloppy poos).

A Canadian tibbie breeder gave me an example of a tib that suddenly got a run of bowel upsets like this. Returned to her breeder, who used a totally natural diet, the tib then did fine.

That's exactly what's happened with Annie. And it fits in with a tip dogmad gave me....sweet potato is good!

After trial & error, this is Annie's diet now. And the explosive stomach poos have stopped. Lovely topic for a Sunday 'arvo, but most days I can't tell Annie's poos from Nina Zena's (who's got no tummy troubles at all):

Basmati rice

Chicken breast fillet, cut a bit small, & v. lightly cooked.

Sweet potato!!!!!!! Cooked. When I'm short for time, I keep some jars of baby food....Heinz Golden Garden Vegetables (consists only of sweet potato & pumpkin).

Plain Farex baby cereal, mixed with a little water. 98% rice. Contains iron, Vit C & antioxidants.

Tuna in springwater & the juice

Egg, scrambled, made with water in the microwave

Dollop plain yoghurt

Good sprinkling of physillium fibre

Not all at once, of course, but these are the food choices across days. Soon I want to add back in some chicken necks for teeth exercise. Also a US tibbie breeder remarked that she didn't think there might be enough fat in the diet as it is now. I have to look into that, with the vet. May be just a case of leaving some fat on the chicken fillet.

Annie's doing brilliantly on this. For weeks, no meds needed. The vet said the pattern was that she reacted to processed foods & that's what kibble is.

Wallabokke, Annie used to have Advance Turkey & Rice. And until last August, she had no bowel upsets at all. Her breeder was able to check the depth & breadth of her lineage, and there was no sign of any rellies with bowel conditions like Inflammatory Bowel Disease (apparently there's some heredity involved).

Annie's problem started after I gave her a 'homemade' dog treat I bought at a pet food shop. It had a strange texture...like a small slab of sandpaper. First time ever, she threw up after eating it. Nina Zena had one, too, but had no problem. I threw the rest out.

From then on, even Annie's regular Advance kibble brought back to her diet, set her off. Likewise, the 3 specialist kibbles tried by the vet.

Blood tests, lab tests, scan, showed nothing.

After all this, the vets are scaling down the diagnosis to MAYBE just a Food Intolerance, that seems to have settled around processed food such as kibble. And maybe kicked off by that weird dog treat.

The other thing I've done, is to make sure Annie never has to 'hold' when she needs to go to the toot. Tibs are really clean little dogs. I make sure that day and night, she can get out easily & quickly if she needs to go to the toot.

Edited December 5, 2010 by mita

[mita]

Wow Mita, your story sounds similar to mine! I have a 4yr old female Siberian Husky. Her problems started 2 years ago when I began feeding her marrow bone. This made her really sick and vomit. I was feeding her beef and vegies mixed with dry food, cooking it all for her, thinking I was being a really caring mum, but this too made her so very sick. She was in hospital on a drip. I stopped giving her anything like that and she has been eating dry food only now, Advance Turkey and Rice with very few problems until this year when she got into some of the other dog's food, and I was naughty and gave her some dog carob and cheese - this all put her in hospital again with the symptoms you speak of, rumbly tummy, sore bottom - she whimpers and appears to be trying to run away from her bottom, sloppy poos, it's awful. she too was treated with metrogyl and for the last few months I have made sure the Turkey and rice is the only thing she gets and it has been a lot better.

I was really heartened to read 'dogmad's' reply to your post. To hear that with persistance and the right help and advice these dogs can go one to live a long and healthy life. I have been feeling extremely distressed by this condition. We also have had blood tests, faecal tests and ultra sounds and all signs point to inflammtory bowel disease with a biopsy being the next step fpr us too. I just want my girl to be happy and healthy. My only intention has ever been to give her the best life I possibly can. I have been really unsure what to expect, what else I can feed her, wondering is there medicine to make her more comfortable / prevent this problem? I hope to work more closely with our vet in the future to figure all this out. So thanks for putting this up and to dogmad for your information also.

You're right. Wow! Is this similar. Except Annie got set off by Advance Turkey & Rice kibble, once the problem started. Any kibble.

Yep, like you, we were up to the biopsy, too. But, with Annie responding so well to the natural diet, that's been put aside.

Amazing thing is that your girl's problem got set off by eating a particular food, that made her vomit....marrow bone. And so did my girl....a strange textured dog treat.

These are the things that's helped Annie do as well as she is now (& for weeks!!!!!!).

I kept notes of what Annie ate & how her 'bowels' behaved & if she was depressed (she got 'down' after eating & seemed in discomfort, when the problem was bad).

Just scribbled quick notes with the date.

This allowed the vets & me to see the patterns over time. Like how it was after putting another kibble into the diet that's set her off.

And how quickly the metragyl would work.

The vets actually listened to me & worked along with me as Annie went thro' the tests & I tried different foods.

Even tho' the blood tests, lab tests & scan showed nothing, I understood that 'nothing' actually meant 'something'! Like no sign of tumour.

One of the vets actually took Annie to get the scan & watched while it was done, talking with the specialist. No waiting for a written report!

Annie couldn't have had better care, than this.

The breeder who raised Annie & the international tibbie breeders were fantastic in supporting & giving their experiences & recommendations. All spot on.

Also dogmad's experiences & recommendations proved spot on, too. Sweet potato is a super food.

By the way, re the scooting. Early in Annie's problem, the vets checked her anal glands & they were mighty full. I asked if this could be related to a bowel condition & they said no.

Edited December 6, 2010 by mita

[wallabokkie]

Thanks westiemum, will look into the one you mentioned.

A quick glance at the vets all natural - looks OK if you like feeding commercial... although I still prefer to feed my guys raw ingredients where I know exactly what they are getting - and its all human grade...

[wallabokkie]

Thank you for sharing all that info, so nice to hear other peoples stories and realise I'm not as alone in all this I have been thinking. will also keep notes I think, that's a really good idea, you're lucky to have had such a supportive vet. i'm glad to hear also it took a lttle bit of trialling to get things sorted. that gives me hope. thank you.

Wow Mita, your story sounds similar to mine! I have a 4yr old female Siberian Husky. Her problems started 2 years ago when I began feeding her marrow bone. This made her really sick and vomit. I was feeding her beef and vegies mixed with dry food, cooking it all for her, thinking I was being a really caring mum, but this too made her so very sick. She was in hospital on a drip. I stopped giving her anything like that and she has been eating dry food only now, Advance Turkey and Rice with very few problems until this year when she got into some of the other dog's food, and I was naughty and gave her some dog carob and cheese - this all put her in hospital again with the symptoms you speak of, rumbly tummy, sore bottom - she whimpers and appears to be trying to run away from her bottom, sloppy poos, it's awful. she too was treated with metrogyl and for the last few months I have made sure the Turkey and rice is the only thing she gets and it has been a lot better.

I was really heartened to read 'dogmad's' reply to your post. To hear that with persistance and the right help and advice these dogs can go one to live a long and healthy life. I have been feeling extremely distressed by this condition. We also have had blood tests, faecal tests and ultra sounds and all signs point to inflammtory bowel disease with a biopsy being the next step fpr us too. I just want my girl to be happy and healthy. My only intention has ever been to give her the best life I possibly can. I have been really unsure what to expect, what else I can feed her, wondering is there medicine to make her more comfortable / prevent this problem? I hope to work more closely with our vet in the future to figure all this out. So thanks for putting this up and to dogmad for your information also.

You're right. Wow! Is this similar. Except Annie got set off by Advance Turkey & Rice kibble, once the problem started. Any kibble.

Yep, like you, we were up to the biopsy, too. But, with Annie responding so well to the natural diet, that's been put aside.

Amazing thing is that your girl's problem got set off by eating a particular food, that made her vomit....marrow bone. And so did my girl....a strange textured dog treat.

These are the things that's helped Annie do as well as she is now (& for weeks!!!!!!).

I kept notes of what Annie ate & how her 'bowels' behaved & if she was depressed (she got 'down' after eating & seemed in discomfort, when the problem was bad).

Just scribbled quick notes with the date.

This allowed the vets & me to see the patterns over time. Like how it was after putting another kibble into the diet that's set her off.

And how quickly the metragyl would work.

The vets actually listened to me & worked along with me as Annie went thro' the tests & I tried different foods.

Even tho' the blood tests, lab tests & scan showed nothing, I understood that 'nothing' actually meant 'something'! Like no sign of tumour.

One of the vets actually took Annie to get the scan & watched while it was done, talking with the specialist. No waiting for a written report!

Annie couldn't have had better care, than this.

The breeder who raised Annie & the internations tibbie breeders were fantastic in supporting & giving their experiences & recommendations. All spot on.

Also dogmad's experiences & recommendations proved spot on, too. Sweet potato is a super food.

By the way, re the scooting. Early in Annie's problem, the vets checked her anal glands & they were mighty full. I asked if this could be related to a bowel condition & they said no.