Looking For Info On Livestock Guard Dogs.......

[Puglodge]

When I was first looking for a Pug to buy 10 yrs ago I rang every breeder in the Dogzonline breeders directory, all 80 odd back then.....now I would like some info on a Guard dog for Livestock and there are only 4 breeders listed. :D

The breed section dont seem to get many posting so thought I would post here and see if any owners or breeders frequent here more.

Our sheep were mauled early hrs sunday morning and we had to put 3 down and buddy was dead, we are hoping he died quickly as his injuries were sickening. The dogs were strangers to our area, none of us have ever seen them before.... and it highlights how vulnerable sheep are to dog attack. The worst is it all happened without waking any of us. So my questions are if we had a Livestock dog is part of their training or instinct to alert the humans, sending out the alarm so to speak?

Any advice or help in which direction to go would be muchly appreciated.

Hi

So sorry for what has happened. When we bought one of our Pugs from a breeder in outback Qld, she also bred Mareema's. We mentioned that this was a funny combination and she said that initially it was to protect her livestock and all of her dogs. Since having them she has had no problems. Good Luck.

[casowner]

When we lost Jake I showed my OH other LGD breeds and one I showed him was the PMD, they are gorgeous dogs but we came back to the conclusion that a CASD/CAO is what we have in our hearts. Having young children the PMD appealed to me and one of my old grooming bosses had one that she used to take to work - I adored him, much more social than other LGD's I have met away from home

[Shazzapug]

So if I had dogs on my property at night, I would want them killed (sounds awful, but that or my sheep) by my LGD.....due to still having 4 skin kids at home and them getting little visitors now and then, which LGD breed is going to be more human friendly but still aggressive enough protecting the flock? Is it as cut and dry as that?

[Steve]

So if I had dogs on my property at night, I would want them killed (sounds awful, but that or my sheep) by my LGD.....due to still having 4 skin kids at home and them getting little visitors now and then, which LGD breed is going to be more human friendly but still aggressive enough protecting the flock? Is it as cut and dry as that?

I cant speak for other breeds but the Maremma is brilliant. Thye are not aggressive at all and they accept what ever and whomever you accept.

Remember Ive got 8 kids and Ive had Maremmas for almost 20 years - thats given them a fair work out. Ive had them in paddocks with up to 500 sheep and in my lounge room.

We only have a small flock now and the paddock dogs and the sheep come in and out of the house yard to act as lawnmowers occassionally without missing a beat and still sit at the kds feet and lap up any affection they can grab.

ive a bitch that was put with the sheep when she was 6 weeks old. When she is in whelp and about a week to go I bring her in and bath her and introduce her to her whelping box. She sits for 2 days with her back to me and would go back to th elambs if I let her. Within the 2 days you would never know the difference between her and the one thats been inside all her life. She allows the kids to help her whelp and doesnt batter an eyelid as the visitors come and go around her .She's never been house trained but she would blow up before she went to the toot in the house. If I let her near the lambs I have to bind her tummy because she stands and lets the lambs feed from her. Lots of breeders allow them to whelp right in the middle of the flock and lambs and pups are usually born in the same week or they give them a barn where they can come and go and never miss a day's work. Mine get maternity leave.

I like em close to me and to be handled as much as possible because even though you want a good working dog you also dont want one that you have to worry about with the kids or that you cant handle. They go to work at 6 to 8 weeks.

The last champion I bred works with goats all week and is gentle and fantasic with the adults and kids and has never lost one to predators. He came out of the paddock each week end - had a bath and ran around the show ring with out missing a beat.

As pets - they are perfect and I love them so much I cant ever imagine not having them live with me.

[Shazzapug]

So if I had dogs on my property at night, I would want them killed (sounds awful, but that or my sheep) by my LGD.....due to still having 4 skin kids at home and them getting little visitors now and then, which LGD breed is going to be more human friendly but still aggressive enough protecting the flock? Is it as cut and dry as that?

I cant speak for other breeds but the Maremma is brilliant. Thye are not aggressive at all and they accept what ever and whomever you accept.

Remember Ive got 8 kids and Ive had Maremmas for almost 20 years - thats given them a fair work out. Ive had them in paddocks with up to 500 sheep and in my lounge room.

We only have a small flock now and the paddock dogs and the sheep come in and out of the house yard to act as lawnmowers occassionally without missing a beat and still sit at the kds feet and lap up any affection they can grab.

ive a bitch that was put with the sheep when she was 6 weeks old. When she is in whelp and about a week to go I bring her in and bath her and introduce her to her whelping box. She sits for 2 days with her back to me and would go back to th elambs if I let her. Within the 2 days you would never know the difference between her and the one thats been inside all her life. She allows the kids to help her whelp and doesnt batter an eyelid as the visitors come and go around her .She's never been house trained but she would blow up before she went to the toot in the house. If I let her near the lambs I have to bind her tummy because she stands and lets the lambs feed from her. Lots of breeders allow them to whelp right in the middle of the flock and lambs and pups are usually born in the same week or they give them a barn where they can come and go and never miss a day's work. Mine get maternity leave.

I like em close to me and to be handled as much as possible because even though you want a good working dog you also dont want one that you have to worry about with the kids or that you cant handle. They go to work at 6 to 8 weeks.

The last champion I bred works with goats all week and is gentle and fantasic with the adults and kids and has never lost one to predators. He came out of the paddock each week end - had a bath and ran around the show ring with out missing a beat.

As pets - they are perfect and I love them so much I cant ever imagine not having them live with me.

Yes I forgot you had 8 skin kids. And that was a beautiful testament to your breed, it gave me goose bumps. :D

[espinay2]

So if I had dogs on my property at night, I would want them killed (sounds awful, but that or my sheep) by my LGD.....due to still having 4 skin kids at home and them getting little visitors now and then, which LGD breed is going to be more human friendly but still aggressive enough protecting the flock? Is it as cut and dry as that?

I cant speak for other breeds but the Maremma is brilliant. Thye are not aggressive at all and they accept what ever and whomever you accept.

Remember Ive got 8 kids and Ive had Maremmas for almost 20 years - thats given them a fair work out. Ive had them in paddocks with up to 500 sheep and in my lounge room.

We only have a small flock now and the paddock dogs and the sheep come in and out of the house yard to act as lawnmowers occassionally without missing a beat and still sit at the kds feet and lap up any affection they can grab.

ive a bitch that was put with the sheep when she was 6 weeks old. When she is in whelp and about a week to go I bring her in and bath her and introduce her to her whelping box. She sits for 2 days with her back to me and would go back to th elambs if I let her. Within the 2 days you would never know the difference between her and the one thats been inside all her life. She allows the kids to help her whelp and doesnt batter an eyelid as the visitors come and go around her .She's never been house trained but she would blow up before she went to the toot in the house. If I let her near the lambs I have to bind her tummy because she stands and lets the lambs feed from her. Lots of breeders allow them to whelp right in the middle of the flock and lambs and pups are usually born in the same week or they give them a barn where they can come and go and never miss a day's work. Mine get maternity leave.

I like em close to me and to be handled as much as possible because even though you want a good working dog you also dont want one that you have to worry about with the kids or that you cant handle. They go to work at 6 to 8 weeks.

The last champion I bred works with goats all week and is gentle and fantasic with the adults and kids and has never lost one to predators. He came out of the paddock each week end - had a bath and ran around the show ring with out missing a beat.

As pets - they are perfect and I love them so much I cant ever imagine not having them live with me.

Ditto for the Pyreneans. They are bred to live with the flock and the shepherd in the high mountains in summer and spend their winters on the farms in the valleys. Generally though they will not kill anything unless it makes a stand. Not killing does not mean they are not highly effective - predators soon learn to keep a distance! They are in fact more effective because they dont kill (and it is not good for such a valuable asset as a LGD to be risking injury in a fight). It is not about 'agression' either but the instinct to protect and guard.

[Shazzapug]

So if I had dogs on my property at night, I would want them killed (sounds awful, but that or my sheep) by my LGD.....due to still having 4 skin kids at home and them getting little visitors now and then, which LGD breed is going to be more human friendly but still aggressive enough protecting the flock? Is it as cut and dry as that?

I cant speak for other breeds but the Maremma is brilliant. Thye are not aggressive at all and they accept what ever and whomever you accept.

Remember Ive got 8 kids and Ive had Maremmas for almost 20 years - thats given them a fair work out. Ive had them in paddocks with up to 500 sheep and in my lounge room.

We only have a small flock now and the paddock dogs and the sheep come in and out of the house yard to act as lawnmowers occassionally without missing a beat and still sit at the kds feet and lap up any affection they can grab.

ive a bitch that was put with the sheep when she was 6 weeks old. When she is in whelp and about a week to go I bring her in and bath her and introduce her to her whelping box. She sits for 2 days with her back to me and would go back to th elambs if I let her. Within the 2 days you would never know the difference between her and the one thats been inside all her life. She allows the kids to help her whelp and doesnt batter an eyelid as the visitors come and go around her .She's never been house trained but she would blow up before she went to the toot in the house. If I let her near the lambs I have to bind her tummy because she stands and lets the lambs feed from her. Lots of breeders allow them to whelp right in the middle of the flock and lambs and pups are usually born in the same week or they give them a barn where they can come and go and never miss a day's work. Mine get maternity leave.

I like em close to me and to be handled as much as possible because even though you want a good working dog you also dont want one that you have to worry about with the kids or that you cant handle. They go to work at 6 to 8 weeks.

The last champion I bred works with goats all week and is gentle and fantasic with the adults and kids and has never lost one to predators. He came out of the paddock each week end - had a bath and ran around the show ring with out missing a beat.

As pets - they are perfect and I love them so much I cant ever imagine not having them live with me.

Ditto for the Pyreneans. They are bred to live with the flock and the shepherd in the high mountains in summer and spend their winters on the farms in the valleys. Generally though they will not kill anything unless it makes a stand. Not killing does not mean they are not highly effective - predators soon learn to keep a distance! They are in fact more effective because they dont kill (and it is not good for such a valuable asset as a LGD to be risking injury in a fight). It is not about 'agression' either but the instinct to protect and guard.

If the 2 dogs came back what would 1 Pyrenees dog be able to do?

[espinay2]

If the 2 dogs came back what would 1 Pyrenees dog be able to do?

There are a lot of variables. Remember these dogs are bred to protect flocks from wolves and bears. Things that can affect the outcome can include the type and determination of the predators (as well as the number of predators) and the age and experience of the LGD. Many predators won't stick around with a LGD on duty. They move on to easier pickings. It is not that often that a real confrontation takes place. It is not uncommon for one LGD to see off multiple predators though with higher predator loads more than one LGD is usually recommended. I wouldnt usually call two dogs a high predator load though I wouldn't probably let a pup or young inexperienced dog deal with them alone. To answer your original question though, a Pyr is bred to bark a warning. They often bark to warn predators they are on duty, and they will bark a warning that predators are about. You soon learn to tell the difference between 'Just letting you know I am here and on duty', 'I know there is something moving about out there and it better keep away if it knows what is good for it' (most predators BTW do know what is good for it and dont bother further) and 'Danger will Robinson! We are circling the wagons!' (rare in most cases) and can respond accordingly.

Edited November 13, 2010 by espinay2

[BJean]

Ditto for the Pyreneans. They are bred to live with the flock and the shepherd in the high mountains in summer and spend their winters on the farms in the valleys. Generally though they will not kill anything unless it makes a stand. Not killing does not mean they are not highly effective - predators soon learn to keep a distance! They are in fact more effective because they dont kill (and it is not good for such a valuable asset as a LGD to be risking injury in a fight). It is not about 'agression' either but the instinct to protect and guard.

Just a side note on confrontation and injury -

the pain threshold and nervous / immune sysyem of CAO from external injury is higher and more resilient than other LGD -

their morphology and pysche is also different

so they very rarely receive injury - nothing significant from what most feral dogs in aust have to offer.

Also their technique / confrontational style ie how they contend

is better suited.

That said CAO are not as social as pyr or maremma

and though they will love your children, they may not love your children's friends

or your friends -

as far as learning curves go

I think there is more room for the owner to make 'rearing mistakes' with other LGDs than the CAO.

Often with CAO, owners don't know what they have until the dog reacts -

whatever the indiviual CAO's reactivity threshold is, it will ultimately act like a CAO ie: active defence

most in Australia are not used to this and even some owners of CAO when they see this in their CAO for the first time, think of it as an abnormality

rather than normality.

If seeing aggression in a dog is not something you are comfortable with then the CAO is not for you :D

Edited November 15, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

For me this is the character summation of the CAO [Tobet is the CAO breed in kazakhstan]:

"Tobet by its nature, cannot be frightened by wolf. As soon as Tobet gives a voice, the protection to the herd is guaranteed."

Danyar's photo gallery and history page will help you see the CAO better -

http://www.tobet.kz/eng/photogallery_eng.html

Edited November 15, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

Edited November 15, 2010 by lilli

[casowner]

Ditto for the Pyreneans. They are bred to live with the flock and the shepherd in the high mountains in summer and spend their winters on the farms in the valleys. Generally though they will not kill anything unless it makes a stand. Not killing does not mean they are not highly effective - predators soon learn to keep a distance! They are in fact more effective because they dont kill (and it is not good for such a valuable asset as a LGD to be risking injury in a fight). It is not about 'agression' either but the instinct to protect and guard.

Just a side note on confrontation and injury -

the pain threshold and nervous / immune sysyem of CAO from external injury is higher and more resilient than other LGD -

their morphology and pysche is also different

so they very rarely receive injury - nothing significant from what most feral dogs in aust have to offer.

Also their technique / confrontational style ie how they contend

is better suited.

That said CAO are not as social as pyr or maremma

and though they will love your children, they may not love your children's friends

or your friends -

as far as learning curves go

I think there is more room for the owner to make 'rearing mistakes' with other LGDs than the CAO.

Often with CAO, owners don't know what they have until the dog reacts -

whatever the indiviual CAO's reactivity threshold is, it will ultimately act like a CAO ie: active defence

most in Australia are not used to this and even some owners of CAO when they see this in their CAO for the first time, think of it as an abnormality

rather than normality.If seeing aggression in a dog is not something you are comfortable with then the CAO is not for you

This is very true, I had done a lot of research of the CASD/CAO when we had ours and no matter what you expect until you see a CASD reacting the way he does nothing prepares you. The reaction time is immediate with very little signs in change of behaviour. The CASD instincts are incredibly strong, mine would go from a sleeping teddy and in an instant would spring up and chase a motorbike along the fence with lighteneing speed. Complacency with this breed when it came to strangers or different behaviours from people was something that I was always reminding our family of. The image of going for walks and seeing this amazing animal walk in front of you, but not with you made you feel disconnected from him. Then to actually watch his movements and body language and see him watching where you all are at all times was truly awe inspiring. Foremost he was a guardian, he was also an incredibly loyal companion but in HIS way not a way that you would expect a family dog to be. I agree the CASD is not a breed for everyone and nor should they be, it was an honour to bele to share my family and home with one.