Ee Red And Double Merles

[GeorgieB]

Hi guys :rolleyes:,

I was going to ask this in the Border Collie thread but I'm sure merle and ee Red exist in other breeds, so thought It would be better here?

A bit of backgound.. I love colour genetics! I play a Web Game about Showing Dogs. There is a coding error in the game that causes all Red Border Collies to "carry" Merle regardless of if its impossible or not. Ie all parents are colours that would show merle and none are merle. Cryptic Merle does not exist in the game.

I was having a discussion with someone about ee Red to ee Red breedings, knowing that both parents are masked Merles, and it has me a bit puzzled. (I understand in real life this sort of pairing could be a bad idea, or at least a mask colour to a merle.. currently colours do not affect health in game though alot of people try to avoid it on principle)

Anyway its peaked my intrest on real life colours regarding masks and double merles.

I assume there must be such a thing as a double merle Red Border Collie. (obviously you would do your best to avoid it?)

I am wondering if anyone knows if this causes health problems, or if it is linked purely to the excessive white?

Does ee Red (or any other masking colour) mask double merle?

Just curious :D

ETA: The forum changed my ee in the title to Ee.. how inconvenient

Edited November 8, 2010 by Kahlua

[Janba]

Hi guys :rolleyes:,

I was going to ask this in the Border Collie thread but I'm sure merle and ee Red exist in other breeds, so thought It would be better here?

A bit of backgound.. I love colour genetics! I play a Web Game about Showing Dogs. There is a coding error in the game that causes all Red Border Collies to "carry" Merle regardless of if its impossible or not. Ie all parents are colours that would show merle and none are merle. Cryptic Merle does not exist in the game.

I was having a discussion with someone about ee Red to ee Red breedings, knowing that both parents are masked Merles, and it has me a bit puzzled. (I understand in real life this sort of pairing could be a bad idea, or at least a mask colour to a merle.. currently colours do not affect health in game though alot of people try to avoid it on principle)

Anyway its peaked my intrest on real life colours regarding masks and double merles.

I assume there must be such a thing as a double merle Red Border Collie. (obviously you would do your best to avoid it?)

I am wondering if anyone knows if this causes health problems, or if it is linked purely to the excessive white?

Does ee Red (or any other masking colour) mask double merle?

ETA merle is also a colour modifying gene not a true colour.

Just curious

ee red masks eumelanin production so the dogs appears red. The dog can genetically be black, chocolate, blue or lilac and you can tell which by its nose leather. Because it masks the eumelanin the merle gene is also not expressed but it may have the broken pigmentation of the nose leather and the merle eyes. ee red does not affect the white.

If you breed merle to merle one of the problems can be caused by the excessive white which is not affected by the fact that the dog is also ee red so you would expect the same problems from an ee reds who are genetically merles as you would breeding 2 merles. It is best not to breed red to red or red to merle if there is even the slightest possiblity the red could be a masked merle.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Janba

[JulesP]

It is not the coat colour that causes the merle problem. It is lack of skin pigmentation. So the ee red double merle could still end up with no skin pigmentation in its ears and be deaf.

Anyone that tried such breeding needs a jolly good smack over the head!

[Vickie]

Here is a good article about Merle genetics. It is about shelties so sable not ee red, but explains lots of things very clearly

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/merle.html

[GeorgieB]

Thats interesting Janba. I guess I assumed that since merle is masked you might not get the health issues but I guess it is still expressed in other ways, whether masked or not.

That explains it JulesP Thanks!

ETA Thanks for the Link Vickie. Reading it now :rolleyes:

Edited November 8, 2010 by Kahlua