So Whats The Answer ?

[~Anne~]

So far we have covered a lot of ground in this thread and it feels to me like real progress.

Pushing for enforcement of current laws

Making the agencies charged with policing these laws more transparent and accountable

Education for all cross sections of the community

Collection of data and statistics.

Seem to be the major things that most of us agree on as priorities and which are the most realistically achievable in addressing the problem of people who breed puppies in sub standard conditions and we just might knock over a couple of other big deals which impact on us as dog owners, breeders and rescue along the way.

Out of each of these come sub issues and the need for vision,action and lengthy chats and plans set in place about appropriate ways of approaching them BUT we can no longer do nothing. We can no longer expect that those we have relied on to represent our dog's best interests will do that. Its time.

Excellent read! Good on you Steve for getting this ball rolling.

With education, is there a way to promote Canine councils in each state as the first port of call for looking for a puppy? I think the canine associations need to push there presence (on tv, in the paper, in vets and in pet shops that dont sell live animals) as a place to find out about all breeds... Unless you are a member, show or know people that do.. there really aren't many ways to "see" them. But when you walk past a pet shop in your local town, and pups are in the window... hey presto..

I personally feel that it is not OUR (as in, me, we, th epublic or breeders) responsibility to promote any organisation. The Canine Councils are in a situation of their own and opngoing creation. THEY need to take responsibility for the position they find themselves in and do something about it. They need to use their resources to move with others.

[~Anne~]

17% of cats bounce back too.

There are many questions that this raises for me especially considering the practice of rescuing whelping bitches and cats - hand raising kittens and pups etc and selling their puppies and kittens via rescue.

Those stats are much higher for AWL dogs and cats bouncing than pet shop dogs and cats being surendered so you have to ask given that so many of the dogs they place in homes themselves whether or not they are actually contributing to the problem. Especially when they are importing rescue dogs into their own shelter from other areas.

Wow, that's an interesting correlation too. Food for thought and something to explore further.

I think we need to strip everything back to the bare bones in both welfare and breeding issues.

Many have preconceived ideas and notions that I am not so sure are correct.

Maybe this is why aren't moving forward at much pace??

How I wish I had the time and resources to emply a company to conduct detailed studies.

[moosmum]

Re education,

I think targeting adult who are in a position to buy now ,unfortunately will have limmited effect.

Most are "too busy" or disinterested to attend education days and we would be largely preaching to the converted.

Educating the public does not entail 'creating a student and teacher' situation usually. Public education and awareness programs are, for example, like the ads we are currently hearing about 'looking up' for powerlines or the 'Dial before you Dig' campaign.

Awareness campaigns also include topics such as gambling, water control and weed control.

A variety of methods are used in changing and altering behaviour and educating. Some are through more community awareness campagins and others through social marketing campaigns. Examples might include a campaign through media with advertorials, editorials, interest stories and advertising, identifying areas or groups of concern and working with these specific areas or groups, and more educational areas such as information seminars and examples of best practice.

Social behaviour, awareness and social marketing campaigns can be highly successful.

Yes,your right Anne,

I guess I 'd just love to get it ALL through to people at once! :D

Chasing up my letter I have come accross some beautiful quotes made thru the ages by politcians,writers and ancient greek philosophers.

Just goes to show how sadly attitudes have changed.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

moosmum i think this is the post you were looking for http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=200540

[moosmum]

moosmum i think this is the post you were looking for http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=200540

Thanks Jaxx,

I guess I should have asked here for help in finding my post 1st.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

moosmum i think this is the post you were looking for http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=200540

Thanks Jaxx,

I guess I should have asked here for help in finding my post 1st.

no worries MM

[Gayle.]

17% of cats bounce back too.

There are many questions that this raises for me especially considering the practice of rescuing whelping bitches and cats - hand raising kittens and pups etc and selling their puppies and kittens via rescue.

Those stats are much higher for AWL dogs and cats bouncing than pet shop dogs and cats being surendered so you have to ask given that so many of the dogs they place in homes themselves whether or not they are actually contributing to the problem. Especially when they are importing rescue dogs into their own shelter from other areas.

As cruel as it sounds, wouldn't the vast majority of pregnant mutts in pounds be better of euthanased along with their unborn pups? Cos once they've whelped, you no longer have one homeless dog, you've just added a whole lot more.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

17% of cats bounce back too.

There are many questions that this raises for me especially considering the practice of rescuing whelping bitches and cats - hand raising kittens and pups etc and selling their puppies and kittens via rescue.

Those stats are much higher for AWL dogs and cats bouncing than pet shop dogs and cats being surendered so you have to ask given that so many of the dogs they place in homes themselves whether or not they are actually contributing to the problem. Especially when they are importing rescue dogs into their own shelter from other areas.

As cruel as it sounds, wouldn't the vast majority of pregnant mutts in pounds be better of euthanased along with their unborn pups? Cos once they've whelped, you no longer have one homeless dog, you've just added a whole lot more.

i have often wondered about this too. why contribute to the problem by letting them whelp

[Steve]

<H1 Mc="158" sb_id="ms__id295">I would hate to see it get to this here - The obvious question is what happens to dogs who live in places where there are under 10 ?

We have to find some way or ways of making a difference and soon.

http://www.economist.com/node/17468228?story_id=17468228&fsrc=rss

"Puppy mills"</H1>A dog's life<H2 class=rubric sb_id="ms__id297">Direct democracy cares for canines </H2>Nov 11th 2010 | Kansas City

ODD as it seems, the state of Missouri is home to 1,462 licensed commercial dog breeders. Between them, they breed about 1m puppies a year. About 40% of all the dogs that end up in pet shops across America are born in Missouri's smaller country towns.

Some breeding places hardly bear inspection. Cori Menkin, senior director of legislative initiatives for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, has seen "horrific" conditions there, with up to 1,000 breeding bitches under one roof. The worst of these "puppy mills" are filthy with urine and piled-up faeces. The animals have such matted coats that they cannot defecate properly. Some bitches freeze to death; others spend their whole lives on wire-floored cages, unable to walk on solid ground. "Whenever you are engaging in an industry that uses live animals and is seeking to make as much profit as possible, less money is put into the business, meaning less care is provided for the animals," Ms Menkin says.

Animal-rights supporters claim that the laws governing these breeding sheds are vague, unenforceable and insufficient to maintain even the most rudimentary care. This is why they gathered more than 190,000 signatures in support of the Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act—an exercise in direct democracy that was passed on November 2nd to improve conditions in the state's breeding facilities.

The groups created the ballot initiative after repeatedly failing to get bills passed by the Missouri General Assembly, explains Barbara Schmitz, director of the Missouri branch of the Humane Society. She estimates that licensed premises may account for only half the number of puppy mills in the state. There are probably as many unlicensed ones, adding up to almost 3,000 in all, operating under laws that have not been updated in 18 years.

In 2009 the Missouri Department of Agriculture, which oversees breeders, created a programme called Operation Bark Alert. Under this, individuals can report unlicensed breeders to the state. According to Misti Preston, a spokesman for the department, the initiative has helped rescue more than 3,600 dogs and put 180 unlicensed commercial breeders out of business.

But the department can only do so much. Ms Preston admits that there are only 12 inspectors and that, between them, they have to check on more than 2,800 facilities each year—including breeding sheds, dog pounds and pet shops. And with puppies selling for $50-200 each, the fines levied are so low that they are simply seen by unscrupulous breeders as part of the cost of doing business.

The new amendment will provide clearer, enforceable standards. It allows no more than 50 breeding bitches in any one facility. Breeders with more than ten will have to provide sufficient food and clean water, veterinary care, regular exercise and adequate rest between breeding cycles. The amendment also regulates the size of kennels, so that the animals have room to stretch. Any violation of this law will count as a class C misdemeanor, carrying a maximum penalty of up to 15 days in jail and a fine of up to $300, still rather low.

Ms Menkin hopes the amendment will have an impact on breeders not only in Missouri, but other states as well. "We hoped that people in Missouri would understand the reputation they have garnered in the rest of the country as being the puppy-mill capital," she says. "And I'm glad they came out to vote to change it."

United States

Edited November 11, 2010 by Steve

[Steve]

Regarding those stats from AWL - I think if animal welfare and animal rights are going to blame breeders and pet shops then its only fair that they take a long look at what they may do themselves to contribute and clearly some of the bigger ones do.

If we are going to demand correct stats themn one of the oens they need to gather and keep is whether the dog has come from a rescue situation too in my opinion and it shouldbe something that is called to answer along with breeders and pet shops.

[Natsu chan]

I think so too simply because other wise we aren't seeing the true picture.

How's your spanner going?

[Steve]

I think so too simply because other wise we aren't seeing the true picture.

How's your spanner going?

Just being polished off - Had a delay but almost done. Then we can start on the hammer throw ;)

[Natsu chan]

Just a hammer throw?

Tomahawks are much more fun! :D