"can We Have Her On The Main Register?"

[LizT]

I know you experienced breeders get this ALL the time but...shish..

Okay, the enquiry was for a Pet, they have an Elderly desexed male and they came out to see her on Thursday.

Saturday is the earliest you can have her I tell them when they say how much they love her and when can they take her.

Great coming back Saturday morning to collect her.

Friday night phone call....."Wondering if you could put her on the Main Register for us as I would love to breed her and have a friend who breeds 'such and such Terriers', I'm very experienced with dogs, and often look after hers, I'm will to join DogsVic etc. etc. rada rada.

Me....

Sorry she is being sold as a pet on Limited Register and I wont sell on main register to someone I just met yesterday who thinks they would like to become a breeder.

They are still taking her but I feel sooo drained????

**UPDATE*** Today I got a copy of the Vets desexing certificate and am posting $100 refund as per my desexing agreement.

Just in case you wondered how things finished with this little girl.

Edited March 10, 2011 by LizT

[Christina]

I know you experienced breeders get this ALL the time but...shish..

Okay, the enquiry was for a Pet, they have an Elderly desexed male and they came out to see her on Thursday.

Saturday is the earliest you can have her I tell them when they say how much they love her and when can they take her.

Great coming back Saturday morning to collect her.

Friday night phone call....."Wondering if you could put her on the Main Register for us as I would love to breed her and have a friend who breeds 'such and such Terriers', I'm very experienced with dogs, and often look after hers, I'm will to join DogsVic etc. etc. rada rada.

Me....

Sorry she is being sold as a pet on Limited Register and I wont sell on main register to someone I just met yesterday who thinks they would like to become a breeder.

They are still taking her but I feel sooo drained????

If they are still taking her how will you know or find out that they won't just breed her anyway ?

They have a friend who already breeds & you don't know if friend is a registered breeder, puppy farm or anything about them. How do you know anything except what they tell you, which may not be true.

I would say you can still have the puppy in a few weeks but she will be desexed.

You don't have to desex but I bet they run a mile.

[espinay2]

Eek, yes, warning bells there. I would tell them she will be desexed first too. and/or perhaps tell them the other option is to wait and get to know you more and maybe get a pup from a later litter on co-ownership on the main register 'if they are serious about breeding'.

[~SL~]

I was in the same situation with my first litter. I refunded the deposit and told them they would not be getting the puppy.

[LizT]

I am not keen on "infant desexing" but am seriously looking into it.

I have a desexing contract that they will sign or no Puppy.

Edited November 5, 2010 by LizT

[Sandra777]

I wouldn't be selling them a puppy.

[LizT]

It is not as sinister as it may seem.

The husbands twin brother breeds and trains Pointers for the Defence Force in the UK and also trains them as Gun dogs for others. He is a Registered Breeder.

The friend with the Terrier "breeds and Shows" therefore is a Registered breeder not BYB.

It's just that I did breed this litter for Pets only, and I can understand people being interested in breeding and it may well be something she (the new owner) has thought about doing a fair bit.

I think I just need to reiterate that this Puppy is not for that purpose.

Pesonally I don't think becoming a Registered breeder is a closed shop, but people shouldn't do it on a whim.

Not everything with a uterus should be bred.

[Jed]

No

Sell the dog to someone else.

People who genuinely want to breed get no stick from me. I sell them the best I have, or I send them to someone who has better. I am happy to mentor, give services, do whatever to help them breed nice healthy dogs. But I need them to be upfront.

People who wanted a pet and suddenly decide they "might like to breed a litter or two" can be problems. The fact that they didn't tell you up front, OR decided after a discussion with the brother or terrier friends would ring big alarm bells for me.

Why? Because it is a frequent and sinister scenario.

Breeders who have this breed wouldn't be paranoid if puppy purchasers didn't lie through their rotten cotton picking back teeth on a regular basis. And the longer you breed, the more paranoid you become.

Why did you breed the litter as "pets only"? What does "pets only" actually mean to you? Just confused, help me out.

[ellz]

It would be a no from me too.

Once people who have previously been happy with a LR puppy suddenly change their minds and start asking for MR, the entire scenario changes colours and in my eyes, becomes a non-event.

Even if it doesn't appear sinister, the possibility is that they will never be truly happy with a LR puppy now when they could have had a MR puppy to breed from. Regardless of your desexing agreement, they will do as they like.

And I hate to tell you this, but in a court of law, it is unlikely your agreement will hold water.

The law basically supports the purchaser. They paid money for an item (and dogs are classed as goods by law), and you cannot tell them what to do, or what not to do with their own property (as the dog becomes once paid for).

I'd be sending them elsewhere.

[LizT]

No

Sell the dog to someone else.

People who genuinely want to breed get no stick from me. I sell them the best I have, or I send them to someone who has better. I am happy to mentor, give services, do whatever to help them breed nice healthy dogs. But I need them to be upfront.

People who wanted a pet and suddenly decide they "might like to breed a litter or two" can be problems. The fact that they didn't tell you up front, OR decided after a discussion with the brother or terrier friends would ring big alarm bells for me.

Why? Because it is a frequent and sinister scenario.

Breeders who have this breed wouldn't be paranoid if puppy purchasers didn't lie through their rotten cotton picking back teeth on a regular basis. And the longer you breed, the more paranoid you become.

Why did you breed the litter as "pets only"? What does "pets only" actually mean to you? Just confused, help me out.

Jed, to me "Pets Only" means that they will be sold on the Limited Register and are NOT for Showing or Breeding.

The fact that they are sound, healthy animals does not mean that they have to be bred from. As far as I am concerned ALL puppies born should have at least had an attempt to be produced as "Sound , healthy pups anyway. Of course, things frequently go wrong, but if it is so severe that it would affect the animals quality of life or mean a lifetime of medication and expenses I would put the pup to sleep first anyway.

I have spoken long and hard with this woman and I believe that this request was born of a 'whim' that she romantically indulged in after seeing this "lovely little puppy with her beautiful face" and going home and "day dreaming' about it.

Can't say I haven't been guilty of the same thing in the past either.

She has bought the puppy will full understanding that she is on the Limited Register. She has signed a "desexing Contract" and a buyers agreement (yes, I realise it's not worth the paper it's printed on, it is purely a deterrent) and I am happy with that until it comes back and bites me in the arse.

[ellz]

You're braver and far more "forgiving" than I am.

I just hope that she doesn't forget her desexing agreement and the promises she has made when her friends get in her ears about such beautiful puppies and wanting one just like her.

*slaps self for being a bitch*

No, but seriously, congratulations for finding a home that you obviously trust will care for your baby. That is probably the absolute WORST part of being a breeder. Most non-breeders cannot understand the angst that can go into finding GOOD homes, especially for popular breeds or breeds which are prone to being "oodled".

Every puppy that I put on earth deserves at a minimum, what I can provide for them, preferably more. I put them on this earth so it is my responsibility to find the best possible homes for them.

This is partly why I don't breed often. Partly because I don't breed for the heck of it, only when I want or need something for myself, but mostly because of the dearth of suitable homes and excess of bogans who would like to think they are suitable owners for a Stafford...but aren't.

[Paptacular!]

No

Sell the dog to someone else.

People who genuinely want to breed get no stick from me. I sell them the best I have, or I send them to someone who has better. I am happy to mentor, give services, do whatever to help them breed nice healthy dogs. But I need them to be upfront.

People who wanted a pet and suddenly decide they "might like to breed a litter or two" can be problems. The fact that they didn't tell you up front, OR decided after a discussion with the brother or terrier friends would ring big alarm bells for me.

Why? Because it is a frequent and sinister scenario.

Breeders who have this breed wouldn't be paranoid if puppy purchasers didn't lie through their rotten cotton picking back teeth on a regular basis. And the longer you breed, the more paranoid you become.

Why did you breed the litter as "pets only"? What does "pets only" actually mean to you? Just confused, help me out.

Jed, to me "Pets Only" means that they will be sold on the Limited Register and are NOT for Showing or Breeding.

The fact that they are sound, healthy animals does not mean that they have to be bred from. As far as I am concerned ALL puppies born should have at least had an attempt to be produced as "Sound , healthy pups anyway. Of course, things frequently go wrong, but if it is so severe that it would affect the animals quality of life or mean a lifetime of medication and expenses I would put the pup to sleep first anyway.

This is what I'm planning to do with my first litter. Anything that I don't keep for myself will be Limit Registered and sold with a desexing contract.

[LizT]

I think there are 'steps' to take and if all else fails...or we are let down continually there will be more 'steps' taken.

I pride myself on being a good judge of character. I've had enquiries that have made my hairs on my neck stand on end (literally) and I ask a hell of a lot of questions. Almost tie people up in knots sometimes with my questioning, bit of a "Pet detective".

Cynicism comes from being let down continually and this may happen to me. There are already screening processes I will add and change to make sure I've done the best I can for my puppies.

We do need some trust in this world after all.

[ellz]

I admire your approach LizT, and I hope that your optimism repays you well.

All optimism has done for me is make me jaded and cynical.

[LizT]

I admire your approach LizT, and I hope that your optimism repays you well.

All optimism has done for me is make me jaded and cynical.

Ahh..if you were truly jaded and cynical you would not bother to share the wealth of your experience and knowledge with others.

Edited November 6, 2010 by LizT

[ellz]

I admire your approach LizT, and I hope that your optimism repays you well.

All optimism has done for me is make me jaded and cynical.

Ahh..if you were truly jaded and cynical you would not bother to share the wealth of your experience and knowledge with others.

Maybe it's just because I want to try and help spare others from some of the crap that I've experienced!

I really did start out young and bright-eyed and full of trust and trying to do the right thing by everybody. Sadly, over the years, that has been replaced by cynicism, mistrust and watching out for ME and my puppies exclusively. Yes, I try to make things good for my puppy purchasers too, but not at the expense of my sleep at night or the safety of my canines. I'd far rather lose prospective purchasers because my rules are too rigid, than to relax them and wonder if my dogs are being cared for properly.

[Andisa]

I wouldn't be selling them a puppy.

me either..

[Cockerlover]

Here is another NO!!

I have been breeding fo many yeas ,& thought I had a good judgement of charecter !!!

I to have a desexing /puppy purchase agreement ,but have to tell u, they in reality are worthless .

Having recently been stung by a right "B""I can asure u of this ,once u let that puppy go there is NOTHING u can do if the woman betrays your trust .

The life & welfare of any puppyis not worth the risk of trustingsome one who"" fancies becomeing a breeder ""

I suggest u tell them puppy is going to be desexed before leaving yr care .

If the dont run a mile @ that, then ask for a substancial desexing deposit ,which u will refund on sighting proof of desexing .

we may all sound a bit sinical ,but with experiace comes wisdom .

here is your chance not to be in the position, im sure many breeders may have been ,when they first began to trust .

[LizT]

We must all do what we feel is best for the welfare of those we are responsible for being on this planet. But as I've said before , desexing only controls whether or not the dog will be used for breeding. I am not at the point where I think desexing an infant is right (for me anyway).

It does not preclude a dog from a life of mysery, mistreatment, neglect or prevent it from ending up in a Pound or as a Rescue case.

Prospective buyers need to be screened for more than just the potential to breed the dog IMO there is far worse that can happen.

[oakway]

De sexing contracts are not worth the paper they are written on.