How Do You Choose A Good Breeder?

[Steve]

Over and over again, we see people who ask "how does the public know the difference between one breeder and another?" How do we find a good breeder.

there have been many attempts usually driven by people who have an agenda to promote their own group over any other or by animal rights and others who have never bred a puppy.

For me its about the answer to questions every breeder should be asked and be able to answer.

One is - 'How did you become educated and stay up to date on issues relating to the science and issues relating to dog breeding in general and things which specifically affect your breed?

Next is " How did you choose which dogs to breed?" What were the biggest challenges for you in producing this litter?'

Then 'How do you assess whether what you have done has been successful?"

That sorts em out.

[critters]

I've recently decided on a good way to identify some bad breeders, and that's when they are almost impossible to squeeze information out of! Even if they do happen to be doing everything 'right', what use is it if they are unwilling or unable to communicate properly with a potential buyer for one of their puppies?

[baker_girl]

I've got two labs both from different breeders. With my first lab the breeder was really great with my initial enquiries and everything leading up to us picking up our girl. After we did though all communication from her stopped. I emailed her a few times with updates and pics just so she was in the loop with our girls development but never heard back.

Currently with my second lab, we are going through a few issues and are dealing with suspected hip displasia. This has been going on for a few months now and initially I contacted the breeder as I thought as a breeder he would want to know about these possible issues. He was quite forceful in us getting a second opinion and said he didn't believe the issue with the dog would be as serious as what our vets are claiming. We did on his advice go to his recommended vet and decided against initial surgery. Now a few months down the track the issue seems to be getting worse for our boy so I again wanted to email the breeder just to keep him informed and ask for advice about possible places for xrays to diagnose the issue. But haven't heard anything back. I've actually emailed a few times with no response.

I have to say both my experiences with these breeders has been a bit dissapointing. I was just hoping for more of an ongoing relationship where I could learn from their advice and experience should I have any issues. That's the whole point I chose to go to reputable breeders to get my dogs. Maybe I'm naive but as a breeder I would have thought they'd be interested in the ongoing wellbeing of these dogs?

[Gayle.]

If you're expecting the general public to be asking those questions of breeders, you'll be waiting a very long time. They are questions breeders should be asking themselves.

[Sunnyflower]

I didn't know what questions to ask back in 2008 and as a result I have a boy who is carrying a few health issues and quite possibly one very serious one that requires and MRI to confirm.

However now I know exactly what I am wanting / looking for and when I found this perfect breeder I still wasn't entirely sure but when she answered every question that needed answering without being asked because she purely and simply loved and breathed these dogs that was it for me! She got into the breed knowing full well she needed to invest time and money into the breed for better health and breed improvements and the results she has got is a complete testament to her hard work.

We are waiting as long as it takes to get a puppy from them and really hoping it's this time next year but if it's 2 years away that's fine because this breeder is perfect.

[Remarkabull]

Bakergirl - that's very disappointing for you.

The one and only time I have (so far) purchased a dog from a registered breeder has been a wonderful experience. From now on it will be the only way I get any future dogs.

I have become quite friendly with them and we are in regular contact (despite living thousands of kms apart). They are always interested in hearing how Acheron is doing and even came to my house for a visit before we moved. I have invited them here (Darwin) for a holiday any time they like they are very keen to come and escape the horrid Vic weather!

I immediately felt a connection with this couple and we share similar views on dogs and training and I will be going to them for our next Dobe.

I don't think successfully showing dogs has anything to do with being a good breeder. Acherons breeders don't show at all (they breed working line Dobermans), but are heavily involved with dogs in other ways (both of them work with dogs as a living) and have a passion for the breed.

[ravenau1]

I'm not sure the average puppy buyer would be able to interpret the answers to those questions, I know I wouldn't. I could be spun a load of BS and I wouldn't possibly know it.

[Vickie]

Picking a good breeder is an individual thing. What I consider a good breeder may be different to what others are looking for & vice versa. Whether we like it or not, there are many breeders (registered & bybers) somewhere between good & terrible who may not fit our criteria but who serve the needs of the general public very well.

If you want something very specific in a dog, you need to ask some very specific questions. If you want an average dog, not asking those questions will probably work out for the majority most of the time.

[baker_girl]

Over and over again, we see people who ask "how does the public know the difference between one breeder and another?" How do we find a good breeder.

there have been many attempts usually driven by people who have an agenda to promote their own group over any other or by animal rights and others who have never bred a puppy.

For me its about the answer to questions every breeder should be asked and be able to answer.

One is - 'How did you become educated and stay up to date on issues relating to the science and issues relating to dog breeding in general and things which specifically affect your breed?

Next is " How did you choose which dogs to breed?" What were the biggest challenges for you in producing this litter?'

Then 'How do you assess whether what you have done has been successful?"

That sorts em out.

Going back to those initial questions, I guess this: 'How do you assess whether what you have done has been successful?" is the issue we are currently facing with our second dog? Our boy may be facing a possible hereditary hip condition and I thought surely the breeder would be keen to assist us in the diagnosis or even offer advice? It's a pretty daunting thing to be facing and so confusing to know what the best thing is to do. When we got our dog, the breeder was very enthusiastic and kept telling us how he is really keen to know how his dogs grow up and to keep in touch and that's the kind of breeder he is. Our boy had a shorter tale for a lab and the breeder said that he had got xrays and the vet concluded it was fine and should not be a problem. Because of this he was really keen to get the dog to a 'good home, with good owners'. He kept saying he didn't want to give the dog to anyone and it had to be the right fit. Which I thought was great and that was of course our top priority too. We feel in love with our little guy and so glad to have him. But the relationship with the breeder has been somewhat disappointing.

[Gayle.]

The thing is, what one person deems to be a good breeder might be totally different to the next persons expectations. In 2007 I bought my first Aussie from a lovely breeder, I told her what I was after, she recommended a boy she had. I asked about hereditary diseases in the breed, she presented hip/elbow scores for both parents, current eye certs, eye tests for the pup, hearing test for the pup.

She also gave me a comprehensive booklet on the care of the breed and spents hours chatting about her experinces since she'd been in the breed. She never badmouthed anyone and was very enthusiastic about how the breed was developing here.

A few weeks later she looked after my boy when we went away for a weekend and offered to have him back any time I needed to go away again. He is to go back to her, no questions asked, if ever I can't keep him. And in fact in the past few years she has had two dogs of her breeding returned and she rehomed them both successfully.

To me, this is an excellent breeder. And yet to some on DOL, she's considered something else.

[Kavik]

Apart from "How did you choose which dogs to breed?" I seriously doubt buyers would ask any of those questions Steve. Or be able to interpret the answers.

I am researching atm (though a while away yet before I get one) - I am after something reasonably specific. I go by word of mouth, talking to as many people in the breed and who own the breed as possible, as well as many people who know what I am looking for in my next dog. I haven't gone to the point of talking to individual breeders yet, just getting a feel for what is out there and who I might look into in more depth.

I would probably explain to the breeder what I am looking for, and then see how it progresses from there. Not sure what specific questions I would ask apart from that.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I'm not sure the average puppy buyer would be able to interpret the answers to those questions, I know I wouldn't. I could be spun a load of BS and I wouldn't possibly know it.

I'm afraid I agree with this. The answers only sort it out if you are an informed listener - to peer standard sometimes. I think the puppy buyer really wants to know if they are getting a healthy, well tempered dog and what kind of relationship they'll have with the breeder post-purchase. Some buyers don't want any relationship, some do.

Assuming the person wants a healthy, well tempered dog with their preferred post purchase support I'd advise a new person to do the following, but it is perhaps not the kind of thing you would put in a public advice:

Join the Australian (and even International) breed discussion lists and FB groups and watch quietly for a while without posting. In my breed, the past 6 months of discussion on the main breed list has been a real window into the values and personalities of many of the breeders, both good, bad & indifferent.

Talk to companion and non-breeder dog sports people with the breed who are happy with their dogs and ask if they'd recommend the breeder of their dogs - in person, not in a lazy email. Few people will put into writing what they know for fear of being sued, and not everyone is impartial, but in person at the least you might get good steer about what to ask a breeder you are considering.

How "nice" someone is is not a good guide, some of the worst can be very charming before the sale. How much they care about what you will do with their dog is a better guide. People happy to take the money and run without checking that you know all the breed's challenging points, and have the fences/personality/whatever for their breed are more risky IMO.

It's hard but most people make an expensive bad purchase at some point in their lives. Like my last washing machine. It's just more emotionally fraught when it is a companion. OH and I were lucky, not smart, in the initial stages of our pure-bred dog purchasing.

Edit: Except on that last point, thinking about it we both went with personal recommendations through friends - the initial contact was a companion owner. I was also lucky enough at work to sit near a retired breeder of my breed who gave advice. We didn't pick names off a list.

Edited November 5, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Quickasyoucan]

As and when I look for a breeder in the future, I would definitely be looking at personal recommendations. I also agree with joining a breed club, going to a show and chatting to people, not just emailing.

I would also want to be sure that they knew the basic things about health issues and testing in their breed and that they wanted to ask me questions about what sort of owner I was likely to be.

Off topic but it never ceased to amaze me that when I was looking for a house the real estate agents (who would be pocketing a big cheque by selling the house) often didn't bother to gen up on the most basic things like rates, public transport, whether it was strata or torrens title etc. If I met the equivalent lack of knowledge in a breeder I would be steering clear.

My sister recently purchased a HWV puppy in the UK. As they have school age children they purposely went for someone who had children of their own, who raised dogs in the home, who was happy to have them visit before the mating had even taken place and to meet their dogs etc.

This breeder was happy to answer questions and was open and upfront when one of their adult dogs caught kennel cough just before the puppies were due to go to new homes, giving the puppy buyers the options of delaying pickup etc.

Knowledge and honesty are big in my books...

[silentchild]

The thing is, what one person deems to be a good breeder might be totally different to the next persons expectations. In 2007 I bought my first Aussie from a lovely breeder, I told her what I was after, she recommended a boy she had. I asked about hereditary diseases in the breed, she presented hip/elbow scores for both parents, current eye certs, eye tests for the pup, hearing test for the pup.

She also gave me a comprehensive booklet on the care of the breed and spents hours chatting about her experinces since she'd been in the breed. She never badmouthed anyone and was very enthusiastic about how the breed was developing here.

A few weeks later she looked after my boy when we went away for a weekend and offered to have him back any time I needed to go away again. He is to go back to her, no questions asked, if ever I can't keep him. And in fact in the past few years she has had two dogs of her breeding returned and she rehomed them both successfully.

To me, this is an excellent breeder. And yet to some on DOL, she's considered something else.

To me, this sounds like an excellent breeder, the type of breeder I would love to get my dogs from. Pardon my ignorace, why would she be considered something else? Are any of those practices you just mentioned frowned upon in the breeding world?

I'm not sure the average puppy buyer would be able to interpret the answers to those questions, I know I wouldn't. I could be spun a load of BS and I wouldn't possibly know it.

I agree with this too, anyone could spout any amount of rubbish and have the buyer believing they are buying from the perfect breeder, but once the purchase is made and dogs exchanged they could have been sold a dud and then it would be too late.

I too personally would not get a dog from a breeder without a recommendation from someone, and I would be asking a million and one questions. I would also expect the breeder to allow me to inspect the puppy before buying, with a chance to see the sire and dam and similarly I would also be happy if the breeder wanted to inspect my home where the pup will be living and the subsequent living environments.

Are MDBA-certified breeders in general good breeders, breeders that shouldn't pose any problems if pups are bought from them? I assume so because it seems that most DOLers are MDBA breeders, and most DOLers certainly impress me with their knowledge on dogs and breeding!

[Clyde]

Picking a good breeder is an individual thing. What I consider a good breeder may be different to what others are looking for & vice versa.

I agree. Healthwise, I don't expect the perfect dog, all I want from a breeder is support and advice if something goes wrong.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Clyde

[Gayle.]

To me, this sounds like an excellent breeder, the type of breeder I would love to get my dogs from. Pardon my ignorace, why would she be considered something else? Are any of those practices you just mentioned frowned upon in the breeding world?

Because she doesn't show her dogs. She's really lovely, very knowledgeable about the breed and dogs in general, imported one of her stud dogs to diversify the gene pool she was using....he is Benson's dad.....but her agenda isn't that of the show world.

However, a bitch from one of the early litters she bred took out RBCC at the age of 10 in last Saturdays Aussie speciality champ show, and that is no mean feat for any breeder. So although she doesn't show, her dogs are definitely not unrepresented in the ring, and many of them do brilliantly and have multiple titles in other arenas such as agility, obedience and herding.

[Staranais]

How "nice" someone is is not a good guide, some of the worst can be very charming before the sale. How much they care about what you will do with their dog is a better guide. People happy to take the money and run without checking that you know all the breed's challenging points, and have the fences/personality/whatever for their breed are more risky IMO.

Yes. And I also think how a breeder handles problems, says much more than how nice they are before something goes wrong. Anyone can be sweet as sugar before they're presented with a problem!

Even the best breeders can breed pups with genetic flaws. When the sh*t hits the fan is when you find out if your breeder is really ethical, or just puts on a good show.

[Steve]

Oh well I dont agree with you.I dont think these questions can be fudged anywhere near as easily as most and the answers tell you everything you need to know about the breeder.I think pet owners can learn to ask these questions just as easily as they have learned the stuff thats been circulated to date.

[Cosmolo]

I wouldn't feel comfortable asking a few of those questions and like others, they could probably tell me almost anything and i would not know any different.

I think puppy buyers should enquire about things most relevant for them- health would be for everyone but it diversifies after that- showing, performance, sociability, activity levels etc.

[Pippa]

I think visiting a breeder for an informal chat and play with their dogs is the best way to find a good breeder.If there are happy healthy old dogs there, that is the best indication of a good breeder. Lots of it is gut instinct as anyone can answer questions, but not necessarily truthfully.