Moselle Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) I don't agree with certain colours being bred strictly for the pet market hence that is why I have said that it is about time for the standard to change and allow dogs of formerly "disqualified" colours to become accepted and allowed to be shown esp in breeds where colour is not an issue pertaining to the characteristics of the dog. I have also said that if ever a disqualified colour became acceptable that it be shown with other similar dogs, basically separate from the original accepted colours. If the standard has disqualifying colours such as the toller standard does then breeders shouldn't select for them or they become nothing more tha colour breeders and as tollersowned says there are so few of them that if selected and bred for you will end up with all sorts of other problem due to inbreeding. They can be sold as pets on the LR no problems (except for white shepherds and white boxers but that is another debate). In breeds like the border collie, where there are NO disqualifying faults, colour or otherwise, in the standard and the non showable colours occur quite frequently and are very hard to select against unless you colour DNA test, it is silly to not allow them to be put on the MR. You can have a ee red dog who is allowed to be shown and on the MR but because the ee red masks the expression of other colours he can genetically be a tri chocolate merle which can't. It doesn't matter whether you are involved in the hobby of showing and breeding ANKC dogs (flame suit on) or breeding working dogs to help you earn your living, racing greyhounds etc they should alll be bred with the aim of improving on what you have aready and producing sound healthy dogs. I personally would prefer that there was no such thing as inbreeding but unfortunately it is very much a reality as it is and as you would know, this isn't happening due to breeders concentrating on the colour factor. Edited November 10, 2010 by Moselle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't agree with certain colours being bred strictly for the pet market hence that is why I have said that it is about time for the standard to change and allow dogs of formerly "disqualified" colours to become accepted and allowed to be shown esp in breeds where colour is not an issue pertaining to the characteristics of the dog. I have also said that if ever a disqualified colour became acceptable that it be shown with other similar dogs, basically separate from the original accepted colours. If the standard has disqualifying colours such as the toller standard does then breeders shouldn't select for them or they become nothing more tha colour breeders and as tollersowned says there are so few of them that if selected and bred for you will end up with all sorts of other problem due to inbreeding. They can be sold as pets on the LR no problems (except for white shepherds and white boxers but that is another debate). In breeds like the border collie, where there are NO disqualifying faults, colour or otherwise, in the standard and the non showable colours occur quite frequently and are very hard to select against unless you colour DNA test, it is silly to not allow them to be put on the MR. You can have a ee red dog who is allowed to be shown and on the MR but because the ee red masks the expression of other colours he can genetically be a tri chocolate merle which can't. It doesn't matter whether you are involved in the hobby of showing and breeding ANKC dogs (flame suit on) or breeding working dogs to help you earn your living, racing greyhounds etc they should alll be bred with the aim of improving on what you have aready and producing sound healthy dogs. I personally would prefer that there was no such thing as inbreeding but unfortunately it is very much a reality as it is and as you would know, this isn't happening due to breeders concentrating on the colour factor. Outcrossing doesn't guarantee a healthy dog , infact if you've closely bred for many generations, producing quality pups that are healthy and sound, you take a big risk everytime you introduce a new line and the " unknowns" that come with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Has anybody yet mentioned the grievous situation of white Boxers? White Boxer puppies are usually deaf. Breeders know they are deaf because they don't learn to bark (yip yip) when the other puppies do but instead, just make this horrible yowling noise. That's when the breeders take them for the green dream. So Sad. I am sorry but that information is false. My cousin has been breeding boxers for 17 years. In that time she has had 2 deaf white boxer and considering there is nearly always 1 white boxer per litter, the deafness ratio is extremely low (less than 1%). Also deaf boxers do yip, bark etc. As for the blue Staffords, there is currently 82 Stafford puppy listing on here, 42 of those are blue/blue lines and the majority of those are all sold on main register. The blues are doing more damage for the breed than any other colour, ie not meeting the standard (and not just the nose), skin issues, temp issues and not to forget the over pricing. When you have novice people who bought a blue pup on main reg and decided to breed with no importance to health, temp, type, only for the money there can never be a good outcome for the breed. Leanne I was only reporting what was directly told to me by one Boxer breeder who has a number of years of experience behind her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. What does "to better the breed" mean to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) seriously, i wish breeders could earn a decent living from breeding puppies because as sure as i draw breath if they can't we will have less and less opportunity to purchase good puppies that have been bred well because it will all be too hard. i want breeders to be commercial.....commercial does not need to mean puppy farmer or not looking after their dogs. i am not a breeder i buy pets and i can assure everyone that i buy my pets based on the breed standard, that's how i work out what breed will suit my lifestyle and will be happy within my lifestyle....what else am i going to use? Edited November 10, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. What does "to better the breed" mean to you? Waiting in anticipation for the answers. They had better be good :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moselle Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I don't really have issues with breeders breeding to the standard, all I am saying is that if a particular breed of dog can produce colours that are not necessarily part of today's standard, then perhaps we should revise the standard to allow for certain colours but still opting to breed for soundness and all that the standard stipulates although as everyone knows....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I don't really have issues with breeders breeding to the standard, all I am saying is that if a particular breed of dog can produce colours that are not necessarily part of today's standard, then perhaps we should revise the standard to allow for certain colours but still opting to breed for soundness and all that the standard stipulates although as everyone knows....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. you do know this is a pure breed forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 ....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. so do a lot of cross breeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moselle Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I don't really have issues with breeders breeding to the standard, all I am saying is that if a particular breed of dog can produce colours that are not necessarily part of today's standard, then perhaps we should revise the standard to allow for certain colours but still opting to breed for soundness and all that the standard stipulates although as everyone knows....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. you do know this is a pure breed forum? Yes I do know and appreciate the fact that it is a purebred forum but why are you SINGLING me out? I have been reading this forum for years long before I finally decided to join and many many posters even reg. breeders themselves talk openly about the lack of soundness in some breeds. Should I do a search for you and show you a fair few posts that discuss this.... as a reminder to you??? :D Edited November 10, 2010 by Moselle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moselle Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 ....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. so do a lot of cross breeds Absolutely, purebreds, crossbreds....you name it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I don't really have issues with breeders breeding to the standard, all I am saying is that if a particular breed of dog can produce colours that are not necessarily part of today's standard, then perhaps we should revise the standard to allow for certain colours but still opting to breed for soundness and all that the standard stipulates although as everyone knows....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. you do know this is a pure breed forum? Yes I do know and appreciate the fact that it is a purebred forum but why are you SINGLING me out? I have been reading this forum for years long before I finally decided to join and many many posters even reg. breeders themselves talk openly about the lack of soundness in some breeds. Should I do a search for you and show you a fair few posts that discuss this as a reminder to you??? :D but you seem to ONLY talk about the lack of soundness and you have been quite disrespectful to breeders in general hence my comment. and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I don't believe in breeding simply for the sake of breeding, I have harped on about this often....i.e. that breeding should be done to better the breed and not for commercial reasons. Yet you appear to have issues with breeders breeding to the standard??? I don't really have issues with breeders breeding to the standard, all I am saying is that if a particular breed of dog can produce colours that are not necessarily part of today's standard, then perhaps we should revise the standard to allow for certain colours but still opting to breed for soundness and all that the standard stipulates although as everyone knows....some purebreds do leave a little or is that alot to be desired as far as 'soundness' is concerned. So you are happy for breeders to.... (who simply because they can breed disqualifying colours and dont care about what they are doing.....) petition the Councils to change the standards? Which side of the fence are you leaning towards? If an issue within a certain breed points towards a colour problem, and that problem presents itself and causes that dog to have health issues then the dog will be unsound in some aspect. Soundness does not only refer to the construction of a dog. It also refers to the pyhsical and mental well-being of a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D oh me too i was with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D oh me too i was with you me three. I had actually promised myself to leave any thread that Moselle posted in....I slipped up. Won't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D oh me too i was with you me three. I had actually promised myself to leave any thread that Moselle posted in....I slipped up. Won't happen again. maybe we could start a support group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moselle Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D oh me too i was with you me three. I had actually promised myself to leave any thread that Moselle posted in....I slipped up. Won't happen again. maybe we could start a support group That would be very much appreciated as I am noticing a pattern here where no matter what I say you and a couple of others seem to be DERAILING what I say as a matter of habit yet what I say has been said so many times before but it is me you have chosen to victimise so if you would make a point of ignoring me I would be most grateful. :D Edited November 10, 2010 by Moselle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 and while i am on it you have a habit of derailing threads so maybe we should stop allowing you to do that by not engaging with you if you go off subject ;) Yes you are right Jaxx. Moment of weakness :D oh me too i was with you me three. I had actually promised myself to leave any thread that Moselle posted in....I slipped up. Won't happen again. maybe we could start a support group :D That would be very much appreciated as I am noticing a pattern here where no matter what I say you and a couple of others seem to be DERAILING what I say as a matter of habit yet what I say has been said so many times before but it is me you have chosen to victimise so if you would make a point of ignoring me I would be most grateful. ;) :D :D :D :D :rofl: :rofl: done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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