Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[Diva]

I guess if people learn something from all this then that is a good thing.

The saddlepoint pattern (as) is a different gene from the black & tan (at). Interestingly Amber has a different sable gene (ay) to the gorgeous sable husky (aw).

And just to confuse things more, sable in Borzoi is now known not to be a^s or a^w as once reported, but almost certainly a^t a^t with a modifier on the e series, e^G. Unlike clear red borozi which are a^y. Sable can be tricky.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Diva

[lappiemum]

I guess if people learn something from all this then that is a good thing.

The saddlepoint pattern (as) is a different gene from the black & tan (at). Interestingly Amber has a different sable gene (ay) to the gorgeous sable husky (aw).

And just to confuse things more, sable in Borzoi is now known not to be a^s as once reported, but almost certainly a^t, a^t with a modifier on the e series. Unlike clear red borozi which are a^y.

Saddleback is known to occur in Lappies, but its one of the very few colours not accepted in the standard. They are not sure of the genetics behind one, but assume that its another version of a tanpoint pattern (which is a^t, a^t).

Edited November 4, 2010 by lappiemum

[t-time]

Ditto Rysup!

Chocolate TTs are gorgeous but excluded because the Tibetans found that choc-born pups died young so it was essentially "bad luck" to have a chocolate and exceptionally good luck to have a white Tibetan Terrier 'cos they generally have great black pigment which makes them less susceptible to skin cancer. Chocolates died young because they had lighter than usual pigment and got skin cancer - the Tibetans didn't know it of course but their assumptions were pretty smack on with genetics - simple really!

Chocolate don't die now as we know about sunscreen!

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Ditto Rysup!

Chocolate TTs are gorgeous but excluded because the Tibetans found that choc-born pups died young so it was essentially "bad luck" to have a chocolate and exceptionally good luck to have a white Tibetan Terrier 'cos they generally have great black pigment which makes them less susceptible to skin cancer. Chocolates died young because they had lighter than usual pigment and got skin cancer - the Tibetans didn't know it of course but their assumptions were pretty smack on with genetics - simple really!

Chocolate don't die now as we know about sunscreen!

thats what i was trying to say before but you have said it better than i did.

i am sure for most breeds colours were chosen for the standards based on the experiences of the breeders and what colours made healthy dogs

[RoxyNHemi]

Well back to rare coloured - the rare tri coloured westie

Here I was thinking I was stuck to white, white or white!

[ophnbark]

Here is a blue Schipperke, he only lived until he was 16 months old.

And a chocolate

And a black & Tan

[poodlefan]

Well back to rare coloured - the rare tri coloured westie

Here I was thinking I was stuck to white, white or white!

You just have to switch to the breed that the whites were split off from - the Cairn Terrier!!

(or give me a call at Deshonko, I'll produce any colour you like )

[Moselle]

Colours in Breed Standards and disqualifications, usually have a reason be it an historical reason or a genetic reason.

All of a sudden in this thread, Breeders are all being made out to be culling wrong-coloured pups - it USED to happen frequently but these days, the vast majority of wrong-coloured pups are simply excluded from the showring, undesirable to breed from and are petted out to new owners like some mentioned here already, who love their dogs regardless!

The reason that some breeders in this thread are made out to be culling the "wrong coloured" pups is simply because they admitted to doing so. Some have utilised the excuse that the reason for culling them is for health reasons and others have not hesitated in saying that it is because they are afraid that byb will try to breed dogs that don't fit the standard in order to sell them as rare! And in the past I have heard with my very own ears that they found it "embarrasing" when supposedly "odd" colours appeared in their lines and made a point of culling pups in order to keep this in the quiet.

[~Anne~]

Here is a blue Schipperke, he only lived until he was 16 months old.

Why did he die?

[bullyfan]

Just to add to the mix, a blue IW and a woolly IW. Not common, no health issues that I know about - just a bit weird.

What a lot to get through!!! Just to say, how amazing a wooly IW.

[bullyfan]

Colours in Breed Standards and disqualifications, usually have a reason be it an historical reason or a genetic reason.

Some standards *are* out of date when it comes to the crossover - for example, the vast majority of Labrador breeders are not going to euthanase a pup because it's a colour throwback - it's not PC now - but in years gone by - not forgetting that Labradors are quite a "new" breed in the general scheme of things - the off-coloured pups would have been culled as utterly useless to a breeding programme and Labs were working dogs. From all accounts, this nearly happened with chocolates in the breed! These days wrong coloured dogs are excluded from the show ring - big deal - they can still be pets and it's total sensationalism to say that a Lab breeder these days is going to bucket a pup which is the wrong colour.

Just an example where the difference in colour is not going to affect the health of the dog long-term in this day and age.

However, there are breeds where a particular colour can be fatal or at least debilitating to a dog in future - so why is this thread getting out of hand?

All of a sudden in this thread, Breeders are all being made out to be culling wrong-coloured pups - it USED to happen frequently but these days, the vast majority of wrong-coloured pups are simply excluded from the showring, undesirable to breed from and are petted out to new owners like some mentioned here already, who love their dogs regardless!

So can we please get back on topic and look at all the pretty pictures of weird coloured dogs!!

Exactly!!

[bullyfan]

Disqualify colours in French Bulldogs, much the same as Staffords.

Some of these colours are fetching $20000 + in the states.

Blue

Leanne

Ozstar is the blue in frenchies a health issue like in staffies? This fella is a real cutie but I'd hate to think he might have health risks associated with his prettiness.

I have heard around the traps, Blue French Fries have health issues although I don't know if there is any truth to it.

[Sheridan]

Blonde kerry blue terrier

Black and tan kerries have also shown up but I have heard these were culled (and for Moselle, it was for political reasons - actual politics, not dog politics).

Edited November 4, 2010 by Sheridan

[raz]

Blonde kerry blue terrier

Oh wow. I've never even heard of a blondie KB before.

[SnoPaws]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

Apparently the cancer link goes across breeds for black dogs.

Rottweillers are noted as being more susceptible to parvo as a breed.

Can't say about Samoyeds but Westies get skin issues noted in health issues for the breed.

I am not aware of any Samoyeds with the above issues ^^^^^^

However they will chew up and swallow everything and anything, which leads to bowel obstructions which leads to surgery which leads to expensive vet bills

I have never heard of deafness (in saying that the Samoyed's pigment under all that coat is black) in the breed.

They can get hotspots from not being dried properly, but that would come down to the sheer size of the coat not the color but I haven't heard of any other skin issues.

I do however know of two with hip issues and one with eye issues

The solution is to only buy from an ethical breeder who health tests, too easy.

[Diva]

I am not aware of any Samoyeds with the above issues ^^^^^^

I think the deafness issue depends on which gene series is producing the white. I thought Samoyeds' white came from the chinchilla series, and some other whites from the S spotting series - but I may be remembering it wrong.

I think that in my breed even the apparently white dogs, which are probably extreme white spotted on the S series, have modifiers which ensure some colour, however faint, over the ears. I haven't heard of deafness issues (not that I would necesssarily hear).

Edited November 4, 2010 by Diva

[Aziah]

There's a thread just for Moselle in General now so that she can carry on with her *cough* posts...that should get the crap out of this thread and it can get back to the OP

then the thread can TURELY get back to what it was about!

I know pointers come in tri colour but I cant for the life of me find a picture of one!

I found a tricolour Pointer for you Sammy...far right in the pic below:

Edited November 4, 2010 by Aziah

[Bjelkier]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

Apparently the cancer link goes across breeds for black dogs.

Rottweillers are noted as being more susceptible to parvo as a breed.

Can't say about Samoyeds but Westies get skin issues noted in health issues for the breed.

However they will chew up and swallow everything and anything, which leads to bowel obstructions which leads to surgery which leads to expensive vet bills

Ain't that the truth

[Nevafollo]

There's a thread just for Moselle in General now so that she can carry on with her *cough* posts...that should get the crap out of this thread and it can get back to the OP

then the thread can TURELY get back to what it was about!

I know pointers come in tri colour but I cant for the life of me find a picture of one!

I found a tricolour Pointer for you Sammy...far right in the pic below:

thank you, rather cute that little one! Also loving the solid liver and solid orange!

THANK YOU!

[Aziah]

There's a thread just for Moselle in General now so that she can carry on with her *cough* posts...that should get the crap out of this thread and it can get back to the OP

then the thread can TURELY get back to what it was about!

I know pointers come in tri colour but I cant for the life of me find a picture of one!

I found a tricolour Pointer for you Sammy...far right in the pic below:

thank you, rather cute that little one! Also loving the solid liver and solid orange!

THANK YOU!

It's quite striking isn't it (the tri)!