Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[Erny]

Speaking of the "Silver Lab" ....

The dog pictured looks like a cross to me - very wei-like in the face.

I tend to agree. In fact, there's been more than one or two dogs throughout this thread where I've ummmed about the dog actually carrying the appearance of a cross.

[Alyosha]

Collie gone wrong?!

* no disrepsect meant

The white blaze/head made me feel that way!

Have you heard the story of Queen Victoria putting Borzoi over the working Border-type Collie to produce the Rough Collie we know today? To the disgust of the working collie breeders of course....

Rumour? Conjecture? Perhaps not...

[RallyValley]

Sorry to rain on the parade but is is genetically possible for Labs to come in silver, look at Chessies colours they are brown and all it's dilutions (from the darkest ebony brown to the lightest ash). Ash/silver is a dilution of brown and natural for brown pigmented dogs with dilution genes.

mmmm not really I don't think - yes they might both be caused by dilutions but this doesn't mean it's (1) the same allele causing the colour or (2) the same gene causing the dilution.

The dog pictured looks like a cross to me - very wei-like in the face.

Since Mary Roslin Williams wrote in her book that the brown found in Labradors was introduced through outcrosess with Chessies in the war it is highly likely that it is both 1 and 2

[Guest belgian.blue]

My favourite coat colour Harlequin in Beaucerons It is approved of in the standard so long as the dog displays the red stockings and face markings.

--Lhok

Oh wow stunning!! falls off her chair

[Diva]

Have you heard the story of Queen Victoria putting Borzoi over the working Border-type Collie to produce the Rough Collie we know today? To the disgust of the working collie breeders of course....

Rumour? Conjecture? Perhaps not...

LOL, I had heard that story but wasn't game to repeat it in case the Collie people came after me.....

[pixie_meg]

Have you heard the story of Queen Victoria putting Borzoi over the working Border-type Collie to produce the Rough Collie we know today? To the disgust of the working collie breeders of course....

Rumour? Conjecture? Perhaps not...

LOL, I had heard that story but wasn't game to repeat it in case the Collie people came after me.....

it was mentioned on animal planets dogs 101 that there was borzoi put in the collie.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

:D Have you heard the story of Queen Victoria putting Borzoi over the working Border-type Collie to produce the Rough Collie we know today? To the disgust of the working collie breeders of course....

Rumour? Conjecture? Perhaps not...

LOL, I had heard that story but wasn't game to repeat it in case the Collie people came after me.....

;)

[Liath]

Over vaccination may be a cause of dogs developing allergies, so on that one you may be correct.

Out of curiosity what is classed as 'over vaccination'?

General consesus is the yearly vaccination protocol.

Google "Jean Dodds" and "over vaccination" for some ardous reading. Interestingly, Jean is the main writer on the subject and I often wonder why there are not more experts writing papers on the subject.

Ok, thank you I will. I did read on a pet site many months ago, Dr. Becker I think. She recommended every 2 years was enough as the vaccine stays in their system. She recommended a blood test for antogens first before re-vaccination.

The vet we used to goto wanted to start my cav at the start with puppy shots again because we had missed last years. The vet we go to now, said as long as she has had all her puppy shots its fine.

[Hafhafa Hounds]

I don't think you can show the Azawakh in Oz yet either tho' people are working on it because there is one in Victoria.

... and I patted her last weekend!!

An amazing looking dog - very soft to touch.

Sonia

[Sheridan]

Speaking of the "Silver Lab" ....

The dog pictured looks like a cross to me - very wei-like in the face.

I tend to agree. In fact, there's been more than one or two dogs throughout this thread where I've ummmed about the dog actually carrying the appearance of a cross.

Which ones? I think the silver labs but aside from those, I haven't a clue.

[Kirislin]

I'm a bit confused. Are some people here saying none of these mismarked or mis coated dogs should have seen the light of day if they'd been bred by responsible breeders, they all should have been culled at birth?

[labsrule]

Speaking of the "Silver Lab" ....

The dog pictured looks like a cross to me - very wei-like in the face.

I tend to agree. In fact, there's been more than one or two dogs throughout this thread where I've ummmed about the dog actually carrying the appearance of a cross.

The so called "Silver Lab" is a cross (Labrador Retriever with a Weimaraner). Here is a link to an alert about this on the NSW Labrador Retriever Club website Alert on Silver Labs

[Alyosha]

LOL, I had heard that story but wasn't game to repeat it in case the Collie people came after me.....

I don't think you can show the Azawakh in Oz yet either tho' people are working on it because there is one in Victoria.

... and I patted her last weekend!!

An amazing looking dog - very soft to touch.

Sonia

Ooooo!! I want to meet her too!!! Is she headed to the Canberra area anytime soon??

Edited November 5, 2010 by Alyosha

[Greytmate]

I'm a bit confused. Are some people here saying none of these mismarked or mis coated dogs should have seen the light of day if they'd been bred by responsible breeders, they all should have been culled at birth?

No.

Nobody is saying that at all.

[Jed]

Sources, please. Black is the dominant colour in Labs. I have never heard that they are prone to bone or hamangiosarcoma cancers.

I have seen studies saying that golden Cockers are more aggressive than other colours.

Sources please?

This is mostly myth, caused by the fact that gold/goldens cockers were a popular colour back in the 70's and 80's, and everyone jumped on board breeding them, in particular back yarders, who in turn sell to people who have no idea how to handle and raise them.

Or bad temperament ones were bred and you end up with a whole colour where many are poorily temperamented dogs.

I always find it so interesting that blame is always put on the handling and raising - there's a much bigger picture. If a whole 'Colour'/Breed has a problem (large % of them) you can't keep sticking your head in the sand (not that I'm saying YOU are).

I've also read about the Cockers, I think it was actually in Dr Temple Grandins book.

I don't know that Temple Grandin is the cocker guru, is he? SOME cockers suffered from "cocker rage" in the 70s. SOME being the operative word. Most of them were in England. Suddenly, every gold cocker which twitched his whiskers has cocker rage. People ran down the streets screaming about "cocker rage". It replaced "the Huns are coming" as the catch cry of the century.

I have had cockers ALL my life. My parents bought the first one when I was 2. I've bred them, using various lines. I've never seen cocker rage.

I know a lot of breeders. They've never seen cocker rage. We 've ALL heard about it.

Few breeders - anywhere -have ever seen a dog with cocker rage. I've never seen a dog with it. We are talking about 30 years ago here, yet "cocker rage" is dragged out at every opportunity. The UK cocker club acknowledged cocker rage (in the 70s) and asked for owners with this problem to step up and have the dog identified and tested as a means of ridding the breed of the problem. It was thought it was due to a brain malfunction, so they wanted to identify the lines.

I have no cdoubt "cocker rage" in gold cockers was a fact. Maybe it was a brain misfunction, maybe it was a temperament problem.

Whatever it was, the UK cocker club did a good job of ridding the breed of the problem - 30 years ago.

Other problem is that people buy a cute little fluffy cocker puppy (probably from the pet shop), no one tells them they have a good hard working dog. Despite the fact that he has good temperament, and is great with kids, he IS a working dog. They bring him up as if he was a stuffed teddy bear, indulging his every whim, only positive training, never a "no"was heard, and blow me down, when he hits 14 months, he damn well snarls at them when they try to put him off the couch.

And THAT would be cocker rage for sure!!

~Anne~

Interestingly, Jean is the main writer on the subject and I often wonder why there are not more experts writing papers on the subject.

Dr Bob Rogers (Texas?) and Dr Catherine O Driscoll have written quite a few papers on the subject - all in agreement with Dr. Dodd. There are a few others, but these are the main 3. Catherine O Driscoll has a free newsletter. Dr Bob is sueing the government and the drug manufacturers. Both have websites

I think Dr Dodd's writing might have been easier to find, and maybe there is a little more of it. In the early days in Australia, particularly on this forum, she was quoted more than the other two, when those who were switched on about vaccinations were having brawls discussions with those who had never heard of any other protocol.

Or perhaps Dr Dodd was better at promotion? The article she wrote on the Wycliffe poodles in (??? decades ago) brought her to the attention of breeders world wide, so she was certainly better known.

Liath

The vet we used to goto wanted to start my cav at the start with puppy shots again because we had missed last years. The vet we go to now, said as long as she has had all her puppy shots its fine

Stick with the vet you go to now. 2 of the Cavaliers I bred died of problems which MAY have been caused by vaccinosis. The fact that they developed the problems and died within a month of vaccination leads me to believe vaccinoses was at fault -- but there is no proof. I also believe a lot of Cavaliers with skin problems have been over vaccinated, and that has led to the skin problems, and yes, there are proven links.

Hamengiosarcoma (sp?) is more common in black dogs, as some other sarcomas are common in white dogs. There are studies which support this, apparently.

And the word is that black and tan dogs are more prone to parvo -- I have had quite a few vets tell me that, and never thought to ask why they thought that. Black dogs and staffies are also supposed to be more prone to parvo. Didn't ask about that one either.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Jed

[Jed]

I was watching Dogs 101 on Animal Planet while I was home sick a while ago - they were saying that Labs come in four colours - yellow, black, chocolate and blue I've never seen a blue lab (and am quite happy to not see one!!) but has anyone ever encountered one before?

I think they are referring to the silver labrador, which is not an acceptable colour but is being bred all the same. Personally I think they're beautiful, not sure if there are any health issues associated or not.

If that is not a weim cross, I am a hot cross bun with lots of butter, hold the honey thanks. If you look at the standards, there are more weim points than lab points ... eg, where is the otter tail? It doesn't even look llike a poor quality lab, it looks like a cross bred.

[ozjen]

And to keep you dreaming - here is one of the top winning sibes in the US over the past couple of years -

BISS Ch. Alpine's Carte Blanche WPD

Or i could very well have the opposite - a black Siberian

Stunning white Sib, love seeing all the more unusual colours in the breeds, most of them are lovely.

[Hafhafa Hounds]

re; Vic's Azawakh

Ooooo!! I want to meet her too!!! Is she headed to the Canberra area anytime soon?? :p

Wouldn't think so... perhaps next year sometime?

Sonia

[poodlefan]

If that is not a weim cross, I am a hot cross bun with lots of butter, hold the honey thanks. If you look at the standards, there are more weim points than lab points ... eg, where is the otter tail? It doesn't even look llike a poor quality lab, it looks like a cross bred.

I agree Jed. I think that dog is as much a purebred Labrador Retriever as Howard is. :p

Oh, cos we have some showing in the local area now:

Blue Beagle

[vetrg]

Over vaccination may be a cause of dogs developing allergies, so on that one you may be correct.

Out of curiosity what is classed as 'over vaccination'?

General consesus is the yearly vaccination protocol.

Google "Jean Dodds" and "over vaccination" for some ardous reading. Interestingly, Jean is the main writer on the subject and I often wonder why there are not more experts writing papers on the subject. :p

Ok, thank you I will. I did read on a pet site many months ago, Dr. Becker I think. She recommended every 2 years was enough as the vaccine stays in their system. She recommended a blood test for antogens first before re-vaccination.

The vet we used to goto wanted to start my cav at the start with puppy shots again because we had missed last years. The vet we go to now, said as long as she has had all her puppy shots its fine.

Sad to see yet another vaccination discussion: there has only been one large scale, peer reviewed study on the adverse effects of vaccination (to my knowledge) and no one has published another refuting its findings. The study came from the AHT looking at disease emergence in the 6 months before compared to the 6 months after vaccination (on a yearly schedule). NO significant difference was found suggesting vaccination did NOT precipitate disease onset. Having worked in a poorly vaccinated sector of the community and seen litter after litter die of parvo, slowly one by one despite our best efforts, I vaccinate yearly for parvo. If you don't vaccinate you should do titres unless your dogs live completely isolated from all other dogs.

I realise this will precipitate a hailstorm of comment but since I have to deal with the outcomes of non vaccination it is a point I feel very strongly about