Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[stormie]

i also think we might have forgotten why some things are in the breed standard..maybe, just maybe they are in there because with colour it was noticed that the dogs had health problems.

and it would have been noticed over generations something that we will see nowadays when dogs are bred for a particular colour.

Not all dogs born outside the "standard" are prone to health issues. Take a closer look and realise that so so many purebreds are fraught with health issues even though they do conform with the standard.

No, and no breeder will be able to guarantee that every pup they breed is 100% healthy.

My boy is an example of a dog who comes from a good breeder but unfortunately was just struck by the nature devil with allergies. I spent the weekend at my breeders place and met all his family and didn't see one itchy dog. Orbit was just unfortunate, for whatever reason.

But problems will and do arise when people try to cash in on a particular colour by breeding a male and female together, with no concept of genetics. I've seen in myself in my breed - breeders trying to 'cash in' on sought after colours and producing poorly conformed dogs in which general existence was painful.

It won't matter if you desex the little Black and Tan Staffy and tell it's new owners they shouldn't be bred, because the fellow at the park will still see the dog and think 'awesome, I could make a mint selling those'. So then you get a whole new crop of breeders breeding this and that, with the only aim of producing certain coloured puppies.

The health problems that occur may not be directly because the dog is Black and Tan, but because it was bred by Joe Blow who has no idea of the his dogs lines, health etc and have created multiple generations of potentially unhealthy pups who could in turn go on to reproduce themselves.

So if one puppy dying, humanely, manages to save hundreds of future puppies who could live a life of suffering, then as harsh as this might make me, I'm all for it.

[vicsta81]

Sumbled across a website a while ago with red Elkhounds.

[kinsella]

As an aside to faulty colours, too long or short coats or ridgeless ridgies, I think most breeders have to deal with a certain type of puppy buyer. There are those who will buy a "faulty" dog at a discount for all the wrong reasons. Rare is another word that scares the crap out of me.

Kudos to breeders with the guts to take responsibilty for a faulty dog and culling rather than making a quid selling a dog to a less than desirable home. It can't be easy.

[Nevafollo]

What! No-one wants to comment on the pretty TTS

I WILL! I thought the TTS was very very cute

[stormie]

there would be no problems with dogs with allergies if they were culled.

some people are making very little logical sense

Dog allergies are not always a result of genetics, FCOL. Outside influences can promote allergies

in dogs just as the same applies to people.

This is a theory and we are yet to know the cause. Google will tell you all sorts of conspiracy theories but truth is, we just don't know yet. The Dermatologists believe it's mostly genetic, but I'm sure you'll argue with them too. Until then, they should not be bred with.

Edited November 4, 2010 by stormie

[Pippa]

It won't matter if you desex the little Black and Tan Staffy and tell it's new owners they shouldn't be bred, because the fellow at the park will still see the dog and think 'awesome, I could make a mint selling those'.

I think it is far more likely the "fellow at the park" will look at it and then look away and think it is a cross bred. Most people at the park can't tell the difference between pures and crosses anyway.

[poodlefan]

As an aside to faulty colours, too long or short coats or ridgeless ridgies, I think most breeders have to deal with a certain type of puppy buyer. There are those who will buy a "faulty" dog at a discount for all the wrong reasons. Rare is another word that scares the crap out of me.

Kudos to breeders with the guts to take responsibilty for a faulty dog and culling rather than making a quid selling a dog to a less than desirable home. It can't be easy.

There are also those who will buy a "faulty dog" at a premium price because of its rarity. Blue Staffords are a painful case in point. All some breeders can see are the $$$ to be had for fleecing folk thinking they're getting something special when they're buying a dud.

You can add the breeders of "teacup" and oversize dogs to that category.

[JulesP]

I guess Amber should have been bopped on the head then

[Ker]

OMG Jules she is GORGEOUS!

[stormie]

It won't matter if you desex the little Black and Tan Staffy and tell it's new owners they shouldn't be bred, because the fellow at the park will still see the dog and think 'awesome, I could make a mint selling those'.

I think it is far more likely the "fellow at the park" will look at it and then look away and think it is a cross bred. Most people at the park can't tell the difference between pures and crosses anyway.

Maybe, but all it takes is a conversation.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I guess Amber should have been bopped on the head then

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

[Sasha (Alexander)]

I saw this on wiki a while ago.

Blue Merle Pomeranian

[Clyde]

not necessarily rare but highly undesirable, are black, black and white, black and tan bulldogs..

Oh I think they're gorgeous!!

[Ker]

I saw this on wiki a while ago.

Blue Merle Pomeranian

That dog looks like something out of the Pet Cemetary movie...

[t-time]

Thanks Sammy Ballerina!

[lovemesideways]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

[JulesP]

I guess Amber should have been bopped on the head then

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

The main issue is that the border collie standard in Australia is weird. lol. Amber isn't one of the allowed colours. I could find no health issues with sable border collies.

She had no problems getting naughty sheep out of a corner when she was 6 months so her colour hasn't effected her herding ability either.

Thanks Ker

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

i think it is when the genetics go off and you get a wrong colour and all the rest of the genetic mix that predisposes to deafness, allergies etc

[ellz]

I hope your posts are not removed as many people would think as you do about certain breeding practices, and it is good to have them explained so others who don't breed can better understand.

Believe me Pippa, there are other threads that have not been railroaded with references to Nazism that discuss these things. If you use the search function it wouldn't be hard to find them.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I guess Amber should have been bopped on the head then

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

The main issue is that the border collie standard in Australia is weird. lol. Amber isn't one of the allowed colours. I could find no health issues with sable border collies.

She had no problems getting naughty sheep out of a corner when she was 6 months so her colour hasn't effected her herding ability either.

Thanks Ker

thank you. she is gorgeous, is the colour acceptable in any standard?