Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[JulesP]

I find some of the health reasons a bit strange seeing as the colours are allowed in other breeds.

Producing lethal colours is just plain bad breeding IMO. It is so easily avoided.

Cremellos and perlinos don't all have skin issues btw. My friend has quite a lot and none of them have any issues and they are out in paddocks unrugged.

[ellz]

In Australia, a dog doesn't have a legal right to life.

But we do have consumer rights in all states.

A pet puppy buyer has the right to buy a pet that is healthy and fit for the purpose of being a pet. Breeders are legally obliged to provide these dogs for sale, and withdraw from sale any dog that is not of 'pet quality'.

Exactly and I wonder how many of the people who are breeding with known issues are truly aware of this? I had an interesting chat with somebody the other day who wanted to use my dog at stud. He had no real reason for wanting a litter, other than that the puppies were cute and he could sell them. Once I explained to him that if he were to breed puppies that had issues that were hereditary and could/SHOULD have been tested for prior to birth, he seemed to change his mind. That and the fact that I wasn't interested in one of the puppies and my dogs' stud fee is not cheap (to him and others like him anyway - the almight dollar can be a drawcard but it is a mighty handy deterrent too!).

[ellz]

Yes I would rather paediatric desex which I disagree with rather that kill an otherwise healthy pup.

I think it really does depend upon breed and colour. The puppy might well be healthy in the nest but that doesn't mean to say it will stay that way. And I'd rather take a gamble and cull a puppy than end up with the next Greyshaft on my doorstep.

That would really just be my luck!

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i also think we might have forgotten why some things are in the breed standard..maybe, just maybe they are in there because with colour it was noticed that the dogs had health problems.

and it would have been noticed over generations something that we will see nowadays when dogs are bred for a particular colour.

Not really applicable to the Stafford standard which is really very old and prior the days of knowledge of skin and health issues. Also, remember that the Stafford was very much a "working class man's dog". They were expected to be tough, live tough and not get mollycoddled. If they weren't robust, they were culled. If they couldn't do their job, they were replaced.

very true ellz

[mumsy]

Our beautiful white boxer. Wouldn't trade him for anything!!

[poodlefan]

Our beautiful white boxer. Wouldn't trade him for anything!!

Is he deaf?

[ellz]

I find some of the health reasons a bit strange seeing as the colours are allowed in other breeds.

Producing lethal colours is just plain bad breeding IMO. It is so easily avoided.

Cremellos and perlinos don't all have skin issues btw. My friend has quite a lot and none of them have any issues and they are out in paddocks unrugged.

The joys of colour genetics are that a) what is acceptable in some breeds isn't in others and b) they tend to join up with other recessives which is what causes the health issues in certain breeds.

Producing ANY colour isn't an easy matter, considering the fact that colour genetics is so complicated. It can be difficult enough to produce DESIRED colours, let alone NOT produce problematic colours. It is all a matter of the way the dice is shaken and the matching genes are pulled out of the cup. Considering some breeds and varieties have literally THOUSANDS of colour genetic combinations, I actually find your comment a little unfair. Look at breeds which only have a handful of accepted colours, are not from a huge gene pool and yet STILL mismarks and oddities appear. That's how Mother Nature works.

Oh and most of my friends with cremellos and perlinos may not have horses with skin issues, but they DO get badly sunburned on the unpigmented skin and that's not something for the average horse owner to necessarily want to, or have the knowledge to cope with either. Even highly marked "solid" colours have those issues, as well as increased risk of mud fever with white marked legs.

[huga]

Not a fault, but not common - Apricot Pug:

I also found a white:

And chocolate:

This one is apparently silver:

I'm not entirely sure all of them are pugs though

[~Anne~]

Not a fault, but not common - Apricot Pug:

I also found a white:

And chocolate:

This one is apparently silver:

I'm not entirely sure all of them are pugs though

Apricot and silver are variables of the colours fawn though to my knowledge, and not actually different colours.

[koalathebear]

Just a question from curiosity.

I understand that exotically coloured SBT pups should be put to sleep so that they don't inadvertently fuel the next mindless consumer fad.

A while back after that BBC pedigree doco came out, there was a debate about Ridgeless Ridgebacks and whether they should be PTS if they were perfectly healthy. The argument was something along the lines of - they don't conform to standard, what's the point having a Rhodesian Ridgeback if it doesn't have a ridge etc. Presumably though, ridgeless RR pups would not need to be PTS so long as they were desexed because they would not fuel a demand for ridgeless RRs?

[mumsy]

Our beautiful white boxer. Wouldn't trade him for anything!!

Is he deaf?

No , not at all. He hears perfectly well, although he has selective deafness when he chooses not to do something!! We do a bit of sunscreen in the hot weather and other than that he is perfect!

[Steve]

I used to breed boxers before they told me we coulnt dock them any more and now and then I had a white one.I knew before I chose the dogs to mate that this may be a probability and had made up my mind before I did the mating about what I would do with any which were white. I found them homes and they live happily ever after with their families and none are deaf or affected by cancer. However, since then I have come across two people who decided that white boxers were great and they have been breeding white boxer to white boxer now for around 5 years. Most are deaf and several have skin and eye issues. If I were still breeding boxers I wouldnt bred a flashy to flashy so I wouldnt have to make the call because I understand now that its not as simple as it appears.

[ellz]

But what of the dog that is not prone to health issues because of its colour?

Is it always due to health reasons that certain colours are not acceptable? If not, why are they not accpetable?

No. Some colours are not acceptable for other reasons, such as because they make a dog more prone to being mistaken for what it is hunting. Or make it blend in too much with the background and make it impossible to find. Or simply because they are recognised as being THAT breed because of a unique colouring or an unmistakeable marking.

For example, a Beagle no matter what the main colour is, MUST have a white tip on his tail so that the hunters can see him above the undergrowth.

And I believe one of the reasons that white is frowned upon on the throat and chest of Rottweilers is because the white becomes more visible in the dark, thereby making the dog a target for attackers. Don't quote me on that one, the source is possibly not all that reliable. But it does make sense to me.

[t-time]

What! No-one wants to comment on the pretty TTS

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

there would be no problems with dogs with allergies if they were culled.

some people are making very little logical sense

[silentchild]

LOL Ellz I may be in love with you.

This thread has simply exploded!

I do believe pink is a fault in Pomeranians!

edit: omg sorry for the huge size... I don't know how to resize pics on this forums!!

Edited November 4, 2010 by silentchild

[~Anne~]

But what of the dog that is not prone to health issues because of its colour?

Is it always due to health reasons that certain colours are not acceptable? If not, why are they not accpetable?

No. Some colours are not acceptable for other reasons, such as because they make a dog more prone to being mistaken for what it is hunting. Or make it blend in too much with the background and make it impossible to find. Or simply because they are recognised as being THAT breed because of a unique colouring or an unmistakeable marking.

For example, a Beagle no matter what the main colour is, MUST have a white tip on his tail so that the hunters can see him above the undergrowth.

And I believe one of the reasons that white is frowned upon on the throat and chest of Rottweilers is because the white becomes more visible in the dark, thereby making the dog a target for attackers. Don't quote me on that one, the source is possibly not all that reliable. But it does make sense to me.

Thanks, how interesting about the Beagle. I never knew that.

Still, if a breed that wasn't used for hunting and was simply a lap dog, had colours that occassionaly cropped up that weren't related to health issues, would breeders normally cull?

I am not sure if it is true, but I can recall reading somewhere that black Pugs were once culled. It could be a fallacy however, but if you look at old pics of Pugs there are never black ones. This could just be because there weren't as many however.

[Moselle]

there would be no problems with dogs with allergies if they were culled.

some people are making very little logical sense

Dog allergies are not always a result of genetics, FCOL. Outside influences can promote allergies

in dogs just as the same applies to people.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

there would be no problems with dogs with allergies if they were culled.

some people are making very little logical sense

Dog allergies are not always a result of genetics, FCOL. Outside influences can promote allergies

in dogs just as the same applies to people.

but often they are. maybe it is genetic in people as well...you dont know

[~Anne~]

there would be no problems with dogs with allergies if they were culled.

some people are making very little logical sense

Dog allergies are not always a result of genetics, FCOL. Outside influences can promote allergies

in dogs just as the same applies to people.

What outside influences?

To my knowledge, an allergic reaction is an immune response. I might be worng but I am sure the immunity is directly related to genetics unless there are causes such as disease, infancy or geriatric stages.