Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[Moselle]

This is totally fascinating - before this thread I'd never heard of an Azawakh, and to be completely honest (and pardon if this comes across as ignorant), if I'd seen a dog like that in the street or in a yard I would have feared for its care given how pronounced its ribs and hips are!!

Hahaha I've been yelled at on the street for starving my clipped off Afghan Hound... if you can't educate them, you just need to take the hits on the chin.

I didn't say it was, I just said it looks kinda like. I realise it was a short haired afghan because that's what keshwar said it was. I hope no one took offence at that. If they did, they're easily offended. We cant all be experts but I love seeing breeds that are new to me. I never even knew before this thread there even was a short haired afghan. Can it be shown?

Sorry, I meant that in a lighthearted way having seen some high dudgeon on international breed lists. Didn't mean your post at all. I guess people get offended because if your X looks like a Y, there's an implication it isn't a good example of breed type.

No you can't show the smooth Afghan. I don't think you can show the Azawakh in Oz yet either tho' people are working on it because there is one in Victoria.

I can't wait until Azawakhs are showable in Australia... I have seen the Vic one in person and boy is she pretty.

Yes, I know the feeling only too well but I didnt cop the reprimands from people in the street implying I was starving my SIAMESE cat but from my vet of all people, lol.

[kinsella]

Just to add to the mix, a blue IW and a woolly IW. Not common, no health issues that I know about - just a bit weird.

[Wyntervale]

Yes, I know the feeling only too well but I didnt cop the reprimands from people in the street implying I was starving my SIAMESE cat but from my vet of all people, lol.

My vet is very understanding, I was able to explain to her the breed standard to her and that was fine.

Other people however have not been so lucky.

[Moselle]

Yes, I know the feeling only too well but I didnt cop the reprimands from people in the street implying I was starving my SIAMESE cat but from my vet of all people, lol.

My vet is very understanding, I was able to explain to her the breed standard to her and that was fine.

Other people however have not been so lucky.

The surprising aspect of all this was that I once owned an "apple head" siamese which was more

robust than the typical show siamese and the reaction from my vet was most unexpected and was proof that he had not seen many a siamese in his lifetime, if any...lol

[Ozstar]

Disqualify colours in French Bulldogs, much the same as Staffords.

Some of these colours are fetching $20000 + in the states.

Blue

Liver

Black and Tan (this is really a tri as it also has white)

Leanne

Edited November 4, 2010 by Ozstar Kennels

[Aziah]

That Blue Frenchi is so cute Ozstar, but I find it hard not get all goo-y over Frenchie babies, they are so sweet!

Edited November 4, 2010 by Aziah

[Robbi]

Fascinating thread Poodlefan, I had no idea at some of the colours that could occur, genetics is an incredible thing.

Slightly off topic but when I was young I had a Cremello pony(cream coat, pink skin, blue eyes) he had to be stabled during the day in summer, always coated, zinc cream and fly veilled to try and protect him from the harsh summers, not a practical colour for Australia and unfair on the pony in a way, but now people are deliberately breeding Cremellos and I think this is wrong and like certain dog genetic problems associated with colour it is the animal that suffers in the long run.

I appplaud ethical breeders who put animal welfare before colour popularity and make the hard decisions

[ravenau1]

Interesting thread.

What colours are there health problems associated with, then? I know about blue (actually being a dilute of black if I'm correct) and the association with white dogs and deafness. But I wasn't aware of any others. Would all the mismark or 'incorrectly' coloured dogs in this thread be prone to health issues? Is that perhaps where the breed standard originally came from? As in "These colours are the healthiest dogs".

eta: deafness, not blindness... haven't had my morning coffee yet

Edited November 4, 2010 by ravenau1

[aus_k9gsd]

Anyway - a breeder can still have the pups put down as long as they dont cut their tails off or lower their voices - in some states they can even eat them.

[Bjelkier]

Blue eyed Samoyed, a fault.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Bjelkier

[WreckitWhippet]

Interesting thread.

What colours are there health problems associated with, then? I know about blue (actually being a dilute of black if I'm correct) and the association with white dogs and deafness. But I wasn't aware of any others. Would all the mismark or 'incorrectly' coloured dogs in this thread be prone to health issues? Is that perhaps where the breed standard originally came from? As in "These colours are the healthiest dogs".

eta: deafness, not blindness... haven't had my morning coffee yet

There would have been elements of camouflage in some breeds and for breeds like NSDTR , the marking on the tail is important. Don't quote me on the NSDTR but I thought they had the white tip for a reason.

[poodlefan]

I was talking to a well known Whippet breeder at a show last year. The subject of flashy white markings and parti-colour dogs came up. She said that in the USA, people breeding partis and flashy marked dogs are starting to see deafness appearing in pups.

This is a breed where the standard calls for no colour preference but where, I'd have to say, solid coloured dogs don't tend to be as favourably judged as those with plenty of chrome.

So in a healthy breed, we see a problem creeping in due to colour breeding. Whenever it happens (colour breeding) it ususually brings unintended and unwelcome consequences. Those breeding flashy boxers together already know about the very same issue.

I own a dilute Whippet. I have already made the decision that he will not mate with any dilute bitch (assuming he does stud duties). You play with these issues at the peril of the dogs.

People breeding dilutes together in the SBT world deserve a good slap. And the SBP page here are full of pups from dilute dogs remarkable only for their colour.

Edited November 4, 2010 by poodlefan

[poodlefan]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Edited November 4, 2010 by poodlefan

[stormie]

I was talking to a well known Whippet breeder at a show last year. The subject of flashy white markings and parti-colour dogs came up. She said that in the USA, people breeding partis and flashy marked dogs are starting to see deafness appearing in pups.

This is a breed where the standard calls for no colour preference but where, I'd have to say, solid coloured dogs don't tend to be as favourably judged as those with plenty of chrome.

So in a healthy breed, we see a problem creeping in due to colour breeding. Whenever it happens (colour breeding) it ususually brings unintended and unwelcome consequences. Those breeding flashy boxers together already know about the very same issue.

I own a dilute Whippet. I have already made the decision that he will not mate with any dilute bitch (assuming he does stud duties). You play with these issues at the peril of the dogs.

This was was I was wondering..

I know about the dilute alopecia in breeds, but in Staffords, would you say there are more skin issues in Blues mostly due to the colour breeding and dodgy breeders using whatever they can, regardless of health?

For eg, in Danes, the Harli's probably have the highest incidents of skin issues which is most likely due to genetics - so many of them are all related. I know a few Atopic Blues, but I don't believe it to be as big a thing as it is in the Harli breds.

So is it the colour or is it the breeding of that colour?

eta - in terms of putting to sleep puppies, it sounds sad to us, but there's no cruelty involved if done humanely. They just go to sleep. Surely it's better to be done early before any possible suffering begins? I'm sure its difficult enough for a Breeder to have to do, let alone the new family as well when they find out their puppy has serious health issues.

Edited November 4, 2010 by stormie

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i also think we might have forgotten why some things are in the breed standard..maybe, just maybe they are in there because with colour it was noticed that the dogs had health problems.

and it would have been noticed over generations something that we will see nowadays when dogs are bred for a particular colour.

[Greytmate]

In Australia, a dog doesn't have a legal right to life.

But we do have consumer rights in all states.

A pet puppy buyer has the right to buy a pet that is healthy and fit for the purpose of being a pet. Breeders are legally obliged to provide these dogs for sale, and withdraw from sale any dog that is not of 'pet quality'.

[poodlefan]

I know about the dilute alopecia in breeds, but in Staffords, would you say there are more skin issues in Blues mostly due to the colour breeding and dodgy breeders using whatever they can, regardless of health?

You need a Stafford person to tell you but reading posts here from dilute owners, that seems to be the case.

For eg, in Danes, the Harli's probably have the highest incidents of skin issues which is most likely due to genetics - so many of them are all related. I know a few Atopic Blues, but I don't believe it to be as big a thing as it is in the Harli breds.

So is it the colour or is it the breeding of that colour?

I think its both. I think breeding for colour may double up on problematic genes that might be recessive when only one parent passes on the colour. The lethal white gene is a case in point. You need it to be present in both parents. Breed a paint horse to a solid coloured horse (even one with a paint parent) and you don't get white foals that are stillborn or die at birth.

Edited November 4, 2010 by poodlefan

[casowner]

Well back to rare coloured - the rare tri coloured westie

[W Sibs]

Well back to rare coloured - the rare tri coloured westie

OMG.. poor dog!!

But it's too hard not to....

[ellz]

i also think we might have forgotten why some things are in the breed standard..maybe, just maybe they are in there because with colour it was noticed that the dogs had health problems.

and it would have been noticed over generations something that we will see nowadays when dogs are bred for a particular colour.

Not really applicable to the Stafford standard which is really very old and prior the days of knowledge of skin and health issues. Also, remember that the Stafford was very much a "working class man's dog". They were expected to be tough, live tough and not get mollycoddled. If they weren't robust, they were culled. If they couldn't do their job, they were replaced.