The Life Of Hugo

[huski]

Yes I was there, I added my bit, but THE breeder did not, so I say again you are trashing THE breeder who has not posted on this subject !

You may be right in your assumptions, but I would not post about things I have "heard" from dubious sources.

How is Dju a dubious source? From what I understand, she had Hugo booked into puppy school for the week she bought him home but her breeder told her not to socialise him until he had all his vaccinations. What is there to assume about that?

I'm not trashing anyone, I am simply stating that breeders need to be more careful with the advice they give.

[corvus]

In addition, Valls can start out on the cautious side. They grow into wonderfully confident dogs, but they often need a bit of support to begin with on that journey. The first week I had Erik we did a fair bit of sitting around watching the world go by. He was in my arms and never touched the ground. He got lots of treats and just watched. If I had my time again I'd do more of that.

If Huski and I can be in complete unequivocal agreement on this, it's pretty much like David Stratton and Margaret Pomeranz giving the same movie 5 stars.

If Hugo is anything like Erik was I would just let him watch dogs from a distance he is comfortable with for now. It took Erik three weeks of puppy school to start playing a little with the other dogs, and another 6 months of regular exposure to other dogs at his own pace before he really started to enjoy meeting strange dogs, although that was mostly because he had a doting big Lapphund brother that was much more fun to play with.

I don't know if socialising early is as important as I believe it is, although research would suggest it is. However, it doesn't really matter anymore. Hugo is past that stage and so Dju will have to work with what she has. I think the rules stay the same, though. Hugo must have as many positive experiences with things Dju wishes him to be comfortable around as possible. I would urge Dju to get Hugo out there everyday and make a concerted effort to work him through his fears asap. The sooner this is done the better for everyone.

[Miss B]

I think it depends on the breed also. I know that for some breeds, early socialisation is an extremely important part of raising a well-adjusted dog. It is for my breed, and my understanding is that it is for Swedish Vallhunds also? Anyway, many puppy schools these days hold their classes in an enclosed, disinfected area... you are probably more likely to bring parvo in on your shoes.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Miss B

[huski]

If Huski and I can be in complete unequivocal agreement on this, it's pretty much like David Stratton and Margaret Pomeranz giving the same movie 5 stars.

It really is a monumental occasion :rolleyes:

I don't know if socialising early is as important as I believe it is, although research would suggest it is. However, it doesn't really matter anymore. Hugo is past that stage and so Dju will have to work with what she has. I think the rules stay the same, though. Hugo must have as many positive experiences with things Dju wishes him to be comfortable around as possible. I would urge Dju to get Hugo out there everyday and make a concerted effort to work him through his fears asap. The sooner this is done the better for everyone.

Again, I do agree with you Corvus. I also would be reluctant to go back to puppy school if the only solution to Hugo's behaviour to force him to be in that situation by making him be "still" until he gives up.

[Dju]

Yes, Huski is right, they are supposedly positive reinforcement trainers. Woahhh I was totally not expecting so many replies! Let me try and answer all your questions and comments;

I had booked him in to puppy preschool initially the very weekend after I got him, 4 days from his eighth-week's birthday. I called Cassie to tell her and convey my excitement as I had never been before, but I was a bit surprised with her response and she told us it would be wise to cancel the lessons, that it was not safe because of the parvo threat and also that a few weeks worth of waiting for his shot wasn't going to kill him. Unfortunately, he was supposed to be going a bit earlier to get his shots but we had to postphone that a week because he had diarrhea and the vet basically refused to vaccinate him. Anyways yeah, I didn't want to upset Cassie.

I will take your advice and try it the next time I'm at puppy preschool, Corvus. But about taking him to a place where there are dogs--There aren't really that many places around within walking's distance and I'm not sure mom would be all that agreeable taking daily trips in her car with her fragile back.

tlc, I am nineteen, and Hugo only has one crate. One playpen with one crate inside it.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Troy

[corvus]

It doesn't matter what the breeder did or didn't say. I never heard her say anything one way or another, so I'm not gonna say she said one thing or another. What matters is Hugo needs some help now. It makes me nervous as hell to hear Dju's account of his behaviour around other puppies. I know what Erik was like at that age, and I took socialisation very seriously because I felt it was warranted. You can tell now what I didn't socialise him to early. I think if anything I didn't do enough. I would hate for Dju to think that some time down the track. They are very clever, switched on dogs. Erik learns in three repetitions at a maximum. You can't afford to take that lightly and let them learn what they will IMO. Take an active hand, and the sooner you get into the habit of doing it, the better.

ETA You can walk, can't you, Dju? Just walk around with Hugo. Sit on the footpath. Go watch a park. Sit outside your house and watch the world go by. Do whatever you are able or my bet is you will sorely wish you had sometime down the track.

Edited November 28, 2010 by corvus

[SDDU]

Yes I was there, I added my bit, but THE breeder did not, so I say again you are trashing THE breeder who has not posted on this subject !

You may be right in your assumptions, but I would not post about things I have "heard" from dubious sources.

How is Dju a dubious source? From what I understand, she had Hugo booked into puppy school for the week she bought him home but her breeder told her not to socialise him until he had all his vaccinations. What is there to assume about that?

I'm not trashing anyone, I am simply stating that breeders need to be more careful with the advice they give.

Huski, you have read Dju's mails for the last how long ? we Vallhund breeders have had even more contact with her, it isn't rocket science to work out !

From what you have heard from Dju ... you have heard one side , as I said your assumption maybe correct, but you DO NOT KNOW, you have not heard the other side !

I do not agree with not socialising early, but every breeder has a right to their opinion ! even if you and I do not agree, besides Dju was given advice from many more people to socialise Hugo.

Edited November 28, 2010 by SwedishDogsDownUnder

[Dju]

We really do have Hugo's best interests at heart but with so many different methods, it's hard to know which one is right. Our trainerl says take food away if Hugo hasn't touched it in 15 minutes, vet says to leave it there all day. Vet says not to touch the dog (other than when praising it) while training, but our trainer uses a hands-on approach and places puppies in restraint holds whenever they start to get boisterous or out of control, which is what Hugo was doing. I really wish I had more friends with dogs around my area who we can visit/would like to visit us :rolleyes:. We basically only know a Tenterfield Terrier called Holly who doesn't really like being other dogs and would just walk out of the room or ignore Hugo, and a grumpy old SWF called Snowy who is ancient and a little dog-aggressive. I'm not from your world guys, we don't do regular showing (yet) and we don't have friends who have up to three dogs each that we can just drop past for a visit!

[Dju]

Yes I was there, I added my bit, but THE breeder did not, so I say again you are trashing THE breeder who has not posted on this subject !

You may be right in your assumptions, but I would not post about things I have "heard" from dubious sources.

How is Dju a dubious source? From what I understand, she had Hugo booked into puppy school for the week she bought him home but her breeder told her not to socialise him until he had all his vaccinations. What is there to assume about that?

I'm not trashing anyone, I am simply stating that breeders need to be more careful with the advice they give.

Huski, you have read Dju's mails for the last how long ? we Vallhund breeders have had even more contact with her, it isn't rocket science to work out !

From what you have heard from Dju ... you have heard one side , as I said your assumption maybe correct, but you DO NOT KNOW, you have not heard the other side !

I do not agree with not socialising early, but every breeder has a right to their opinion ! even if you and I do not agree, besides Dju was given advice from many more people to socialise Hugo.

And I wasn't about to go upsetting Cassie, Sharon. When I asked Peta for advice (just general stuff I had already asked Cassie about with the feeding but just wanted to see a diverse range of opinions for comparison and contrast, different methods, curiosity etc etc), she told me it would be unethical to supply me with advice contrary to what Cassie has told me. All because I had advice from others, it shouldn't mean that I should scrap Cassie's opinions altogether. She has gotten me through problems with Hugo and she does know what she's doing. Why are you lingering in the past? What's done is done, Hugo is safe from Parvo now and constructive posts about how to deal with issues that have come about would be much nicer if you do indeed intend to contribute to the solution?

Corvus, I'll take Hugo out tomorrow and have a walk around the neighborhood with him in my arms, I know there are a few dogwalkers around, just gotta find them

[corvus]

Dju, I don't show, either, and when I got Erik I didn't know anyone who could visit with their dogs. Just get out there with him and show him the world. Please.

[Dju]

Dju, I don't show, either, and when I got Erik I didn't know anyone who could visit with their dogs. Just get out there with him and show him the world. Please.

Corvus, I hold your advice very highly when I see what a fantastic job you've done with Erik, so don't stress, we definitely will be taking him out much, much more often now that he's had his shots!

[SDDU]

And I wasn't about to go upsetting Cassie, Sharon. When I asked Peta for advice (just general stuff I had already asked Cassie about with the feeding but just wanted to see a diverse range of opinions for comparison and contrast, different methods, curiosity etc etc), she told me it would be unethical to supply me with advice contrary to what Cassie has told me. All because I had advice from others, it shouldn't mean that I should scrap Cassie's opinions altogether. She has gotten me through problems with Hugo and she does know what she's doing. Why are you lingering in the past? What's done is done, Hugo is safe from Parvo now and constructive posts about how to deal with issues that have come about would be much nicer if you do indeed intend to contribute to the solution?

I should imagine your breeder to somewhat upset with your postings, fine to ask questions Demi, but you make your breeder look like a twat, you have been given sound advice from

many quarters, much against my will I sent you my diet sheet (as you asked for it ) out of concern for Hugo, if you have not worked out why it is considered unethical for the rest of us SV breeders to offer you advice, it might be prudent to ask (privately ) why we consider it unwise, but please do not ask us, ask your breeder !

Just one last time, I agree with your vet on the subject of removing food after 10 minutes !

And as for contibuting to the solution, you have the answers handed to you on a plate, you have had more advice (almost a book full) than anyone I have ever seen, but it is now up to you to

work out what is best for Hugo and get on with fixing the problem, I will not offer you advice, I am sure you know why !

[Dju]

I'm not making her sound like anything, Sharon, I'm saying that's the reason why he didn't go to puppy preschool earlier, end of conversation, change the subject, moving on now!

I will never understand why breeders don't like to give out advice about things like food we can feed or toys we can give etc etc. Medical information I understand, but ideas for meals? I don't see the scandal.

And the vet is the one who said leave it there all day. I was giving it as an example, we do remove the food after 15 minutes, but anyways..

[Barahwolfe]

If it is o.k please Demi, do you mind not mentioning me by name in a public forum. When you asked about how and what to feed your puppy I sent you a polite letter indicating I felt it would be unethical for me to contradict advice your breeder is supplying you. I appreciate you are shopping around for as many opinions as possible on every aspect of puppy ownership in your quest to do the very best by your puppy. But I do not expect to part of some kind of reality tv show show that is going on here.

[huski]

Huski, you have read Dju's mails for the last how long ? we Vallhund breeders have had even more contact with her, it isn't rocket science to work out !

From what you have heard from Dju ... you have heard one side , as I said your assumption maybe correct, but you DO NOT KNOW, you have not heard the other side !

I do not agree with not socialising early, but every breeder has a right to their opinion ! even if you and I do not agree, besides Dju was given advice from many more people to socialise Hugo.

Cassie is free to come into the thread and enlighten as to why she would advise a puppy owner not to socialise their puppy until well after their most critical period.

Until then, I will assume that Dju is telling the truth when she said Cassie told her not to socialise Hugo until he had all his vaccinations

Dju I would be seriously reluctant to return to a puppy school that treats you in that fashion.

Edited November 28, 2010 by huski

[Dju]

Sure, Peta.

Just to clarify, she didn't say not to socialize him, just not to take him to puppy preschool (yet) !

The puppy preschool is non-refundable unfortunately and we are learning about things that we were doing wrong with his training (like giving him a 'menu' and letting him decide what he wants to eat--my mother is so scared he'll starve) so it's better than nothing at this point and it's good for my mother to come along and hear reasons why she shouldn't shush him when he's barking etc etc. I may book him in to a different school afterward though. We're definitely going to start training him a lot more though, we underestimated the amount of dedication that needed to be put into it, so no more slacking off for us.

[SDDU]

Sure, Peta.

Just to clarify, she didn't say not to socialize him, just not to take him to puppy preschool (yet) !

The puppy preschool is non-refundable unfortunately and we are learning about things that we were doing wrong with his training (like giving him a 'menu' and letting him decide what he wants to eat--my mother is so scared he'll starve) so it's better than nothing at this point and it's good for my mother to come along and hear reasons why she shouldn't shush him when he's barking etc etc. I may book him in to a different school afterward though. We're definitely going to start training him a lot more though, we underestimated the amount of dedication that needed to be put into it, so no more slacking off for us.

The puppy preschool is non-refundable unfortunately

There are some things more important than money ! Would you take a child back to a school where they are physically restrained ??

On topic and useful advice I believe.

[corvus]

We're definitely going to start training him a lot more though, we underestimated the amount of dedication that needed to be put into it, so no more slacking off for us.

I'm glad to hear you are going to get stuck into his training and socialisation. They are such clever dogs. Having Erik around is like having a gifted toddler in the house. He can't just be left to his own devices. He gets bored and wants to play and learn and interact. It is hard work sometimes, but so much fun, and when you put the work in they repay you tenfold.

[Dju]

I would actually Sharon Children don't get enough bottom smacks in my opinion. But that was a bad comparison actually because dogs are not really comparable to children in regards to discipline methods. Besides that point, it's not like our trainer has the time to go around the classroom restraining naughty puppies. That was our first lesson--calming down uncontrollable puppies. I'm willing to bet he won't do it anymore because as they say 'the show must go on'. I'm sure that the whole school syllabus doesn't consist of different restraint holds you can give puppies, Sharon.

I sure hope you're right, Corvus. Hugo is so difficult sometimes but we just think about the good doggie we'll have in a year's time (or so) and it makes it all worth it. With the socialization, just to get this clear, I just.. wander around the neighborhood with a puppy in my arms? I wish Hugo would walk alongside me, the nearest dog park is relatively close (20 minutes away) and I feel guilty sticking Hugo in a duffel bag, even though his head's sticking out, he's probably sweltering in there.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Troy

[huski]

As Corvus said earlier, restraining a puppy like that is not how I would deal with his behaviour but hey, if you don't want to listen to any advice you are given, Dju, that is your prerogative. Perhaps it would be best if you stuck to one set of advice that is given to you and that's it. Consistency is key and all that.