Giving The Right Amount Of Information

[poodlefan]

This ain't about dog parks or training other people's dogs. It's about what you say to people you meet that don't know much about dogs but ask you on the spot how to fix their dog. I'm a pretty friendly gal. I don't want to fob them off with a "you need professional help" or "take your dog to classes", but obviously I'm not going to explain learning theory to them, either. They just want their dog to do what they tell it to. I'd love to give them something a bit more useful than "be a calm, assertive leader" or some such, but equally easy to remember. The reality is they are not going to take their dog to training or get professional help. I'm not gonna judge them on that and they'll do what they'll do regardless of what I say, but does that mean I shouldn't even try to say something that might help?

The world is full of people that have dogs and adore them but know next to nothing about influencing their behaviour. That's life. I'm happy to leave them be. But if one of them actually specifically asks you for advice, it seems like a good opportunity to say something helpful. I was just wondering if anyone had a catchphrase.

The reality is that there are no on the spot fixes. I get asked about dog training all the time too.

In order for people to understand what calm assertive leadership is in dog terms they need a fair bit of information. Otherwise you just sound like you're Cesar Milan.

My catchphrase is "dogs, like kids, need to go to school".

That's not meaning to be smart but realistic. Recalls is the classic - "how to you get your dog to come"? I train for it is my response.

Edited November 3, 2010 by poodlefan

[TerraNik]

The world is full of people that have dogs and adore them but know next to nothing about influencing their behaviour. That's life. I'm happy to leave them be. But if one of them actually specifically asks you for advice, it seems like a good opportunity to say something helpful. I was just wondering if anyone had a catchphrase.

Usually in that instance they are comparing their dog to mine, usually with a similar line to, 'wow, you must have done SO much training with him/her'! My usual response is to tell them that it just takes 5-minute daily training sessions with a reward that the dog really likes and to be really consistent and make training fun for the dog. I tell them that if they are interested I can refer them to an Obedience club or if they aren't interested in a club, I offer to give them to a few YouTube usernames with how-to videos. Beyond that, there's really not much else I feel I can offer them without spending lots and lots of time.

[W Sibs]

If anyone asks me, I will answer.

Edited November 3, 2010 by CW EW

[corvus]

I sincerely hope you manage to give training tips in simple non scientific terms Corvus. Even people who are interested in dog training can glaze over when you give them too much behavioural theory.

Give me a couple of hours at an evening function (which kept happening a while back, actually) and inevitably I've explained my PhD project at least four times over loud music to people who know nothing about any of the many and convoluted topics my project touches on. It's hardly the explanation I would give on DOL, but it serves. Fact is, even other ethologists wouldn't know half the terminology I should use. So "lay person" ends up being other scientists as often as not. You get good at avoiding terminology. I wouldn't even use learning theory terms at agility training. I'm too used to a varied audience.

[Aidan3]

There are many out there that beleive if the dog simply stands there, it's reason enough to reward. Much of this logic escapes me to be honest!

If the dog's normal response would be aggression in that same situation, then I will reward the hell out of "just standing there" because that's exactly what I want them to do. We do a lot of that because it works, but it's well planned with appropriate criteria that advances as the dog learns. It's a very active process but to anyone who came across my class without knowing the dogs were aggressive, they would think we were mad and just rewarding the dogs for "doing nothing" or "hanging out".

[m-j]

I was just wondering if anyone had a catchphrase.

My favourite is, behaviours that are rewarded, are repeated, goes for both desirable and undesirable behaviours.

I find it makes them think more about what they are doing to help the problem.

cheers

M-J

[Aidan3]

What do you do when someone asks you for advice about training their dog and you immediately realise that they are really nowhere near ready for the full story and probably never will be?

Socratic approach (ask questions) geared towards a really simple and obvious answer that they arrive at themselves.

e.g "How much does your dog like food? More or less than tennis balls?"

[Bubitty]

There are many out there that beleive if the dog simply stands there, it's reason enough to reward. Much of this logic escapes me to be honest!

If the dog's normal response would be aggression in that same situation, then I will reward the hell out of "just standing there" because that's exactly what I want them to do. We do a lot of that because it works, but it's well planned with appropriate criteria that advances as the dog learns. It's a very active process but to anyone who came across my class without knowing the dogs were aggressive, they would think we were mad and just rewarding the dogs for "doing nothing" or "hanging out".

Sorry this is a bit off topic, but when I introduced my puppy into the family I was told to reward the two dogs like mad when they were just sitting around peacefully with each other doing nothing.

I have continued to do this and they adore each other. Part of me can't help thinking that maybe this has helped promote peace in my pack because great things often happen to them when they are snuggling together.

[m-j]

I have continued to do this and they adore each other. Part of me can't help thinking that maybe this has helped promote peace in my pack because great things often happen to them when they are snuggling together.

I don't think it can hurt so long as the timing is right.

I do this with new rescues coming into the established pack, initially through a fence. I have found it seems to get the message through easier, that just exposure alone and adopting the attitude they are here now get over it.

cheers

M-J

[corvus]

I used to be a bit skeptical of rewarding dogs for being calm, but then I got a dog that was rarely calm! I don't ever mark calm behaviour, because that just gets him excited, but quietly slipping him treats when he's being calm certainly has increased the frequency of calm behaviour. It wasn't exclusively responsible for the positive changes, but it certainly helped.

Thanks for the tips M-J and Aidan.

[Jigsaw]

There are many out there that beleive if the dog simply stands there, it's reason enough to reward. Much of this logic escapes me to be honest!

If the dog's normal response would be aggression in that same situation, then I will reward the hell out of "just standing there" because that's exactly what I want them to do. We do a lot of that because it works, but it's well planned with appropriate criteria that advances as the dog learns. It's a very active process but to anyone who came across my class without knowing the dogs were aggressive, they would think we were mad and just rewarding the dogs for "doing nothing" or "hanging out".

In general when I'm asked about dog training outside of a more formal training environment I first try to find out how interested the person is in the answer.

[Staff'n'Toller]

In general when I'm asked about dog training outside of a more formal training environment I first try to find out how interested the person is in the answer. :D

Yayyyy great answer. Too true.

Too often it's just a "Oh this person is Dog Trainer lets see what I can glean for free without actually having to do any work with my dog".

I find the longer I have been in this area, the less info I give. If they really wanted to fix their dogs issues, they would make the effort to come to training.

[Cosmolo]

What S+T said :D Plus its so important to get background information before suggesting anything and usually i don't have time to chat for the 20 minutes or so that would take!

[Erny]

In general when I'm asked about dog training outside of a more formal training environment I first try to find out how interested the person is in the answer. :D

Yayyyy great answer. Too true.

Too often it's just a "Oh this person is Dog Trainer lets see what I can glean for free without actually having to do any work with my dog".

I find the longer I have been in this area, the less info I give. If they really wanted to fix their dogs issues, they would make the effort to come to training.

I find all of what you've said here to be the truth much of the time as well. I like to see how much commitment the owner will make in wanting and trying to learn, before I throw myself into somersaults, spending my energy and time in dishing out information which is unappreciated just because it does actually mean the owner needs to do some work.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Erny

[Aidan]

Every other person seems to have an "untrainable" dog.

[JulesP]

lol at the other trainers. I used to be full of the advice and now I am a bit over it. I think you also get more careful about giving advice after experiencing what weird things people do with the advice! Or I am just getting old and grumpy

[Erny]

Every other person seems to have an "untrainable" dog.

Yeah - and have you noticed the percentage of those who seem almost disappointed when you can show them how it's done. Like as if their 'sthpethal' dog ain't so sthpethal anymore, lol.

ETA: *cough* and it also means the owners no longer have an excuse for not trying, lol.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

I should say I'm not totally mean :D, that family and close friends get pretty much - 24hr phone support - just because they are family/friends and I inherently like to help them if I can. I don't think my family should have to pay for common sense advice.

I've just learned to make my answers short, fairly closed and artful with your average Joe Citizen.

[Staff'n'Toller]

lol at the other trainers. I used to be full of the advice and now I am a bit over it. I think you also get more careful about giving advice after experiencing what weird things people do with the advice! Or I am just getting old and grumpy

I think sometimes we just suffer from instructor burnout. :D

[Erny]

I should say I'm not totally mean ;), that family and close friends get pretty much - 24hr phone support - just because they are family/friends and I inherently like to help them if I can. I don't think my family should have to pay for common sense advice.

I've just learned to make my answers short, fairly closed and artful with your average Joe Citizen.

I think it is pretty evident that the most of us are not mean at all :D lol.

And for me it goes without saying that family can have free advice and assistance if they would like or need it. That's always been the case with me, in whatever way I can provide it and whether it relates to dogs or not.

I'm not taking your post too much seriously SnT, but I'm not sure if you are just making an off the cuff comment or whether you are making a pointed statement for some reason or other. Probably the former :D.