C5 To C3 Vaccination

[stormie]

Thanks Stormie. So, there are several cause, not strains or both points?

This I'm not 100% on. I guess the virus types 1, 2, 3 etc are strains. Whether there are more strains of each virus that aren't listed I'm not sure.

Usually its kind of 'news' when a virus develops a new strain, like with Parvo, so I'm not sure there would be 40 odd strains we don't know about?

[~Anne~]

Thanks Stormie. So, there are several cause, not strains or both points?

It can be viral or bacterial but there are several strains of the virus.

Which virus though has the 'several strains though'.

Sorry, I am not trying to be pedantic but saying that there are several strains could mean anything, and again, is why there is so much confusion about KC. There are several different viruses that can make up kennel cough as stated above in Stormie's post. A 'strain' indicates that it is the same virus, but with different variations which is different to saying there are different viruses.

Edited November 3, 2010 by ~Anne~

[~Anne~]

Thanks Stormie. So, there are several cause, not strains or both points?

This I'm not 100% on. I guess the virus types 1, 2, 3 etc are strains. Whether there are more strains of each virus that aren't listed I'm not sure.

Usually its kind of 'news' when a virus develops a new strain, like with Parvo, so I'm not sure there would be 40 odd strains we don't know about?

Thanks Stormie.

So are these statements correct:

We vaccinate dogs against 1 bacterium and 1 virus, which are the two primary infections of what we know as KC.

The vaccine does not give total immunity but reduces the degree or severity of symptoms that develop when infected with the primary bacterium and virus.

There are several other viruses that also can affect the dog that also make-up the condition that we know as KC.

[stormie]

Thanks Stormie. So, there are several cause, not strains or both points?

This I'm not 100% on. I guess the virus types 1, 2, 3 etc are strains. Whether there are more strains of each virus that aren't listed I'm not sure.

Usually its kind of 'news' when a virus develops a new strain, like with Parvo, so I'm not sure there would be 40 odd strains we don't know about?

Thanks Stormie.

So are these statements correct:

We vaccinate dogs against 1 bacterium and 1 virus, which are the two primary infections of what we know as KC.

The vaccine does not give total immunity but reduces the degree or severity of symptoms that develop when infected with the primary bacterium and virus.

There are several other viruses that also can affect the dog that also make-up the condition that we know as KC.

Yep I would say this is pretty much it.

I should say, it might give total immunity to some dogs. ie, your dog may have encountered CPI and not have got KC, because its immune system worked because of the vacc.

For those that were vacc'd and got it, may have encountered a virus or bacteria that isn't vacc'd against. Also, the disease may have progressed to something more severe, but didn't because you had it vacc'd against bordetella.

It might help people realise why vets give antibiotics to most KC cases too. As I wrote before, there are many bacterial causes and seeing the most common agents are a bacterial one and a viral one that can allow bacteria to invade, it makes sense.

Edited November 3, 2010 by stormie

[sandgrubber]

I think Aussies should pressure to legalise home-dosing of dogs for KC,as in the US.

I've seen KC go through a boarding kennel half a dozen times, and I've seen baby puppies get KC from the vaccination. In my observation, KC is a bit like human 'flu' or 'cold' viruses. Sometimes the thing that's going around is horrid -- you're sick for a week or two. Other times you dread the feeling that you're getting ill, and it's over the next day. Vaccinated dogs sometime succumb ... unvaccinated dogs sometimes don't get it, presumably because they developed resistence naturally by being exposed to related viruses.

When a mild strain goes through the a boarding kennel, I think it's a bonus ... some free training of immune systems.

Edited November 5, 2010 by sandgrubber

[vetrg]

My understanding (based on vaccination protocols in the UK) is that vaccination will reduce the severity of the disease, not necessarily prevent it, however it will stop the dogs shedding the disease. Unvaccinated KC dogs will shed for about 6 weeks regardless of the severity of their symptoms.

[Tapferhund]

I say don't bother with the KC. It only covers two strains out of 40 odd strains ...

I keep reading these kinds of statements but have never seen evidence of there being a number of strains and the vaccine only covering a certain number. Can you provide a source for this?

Ask your Vets Anne, they will tell you the vaccine only covers a certain amount of strains.

IMO, and even though Canine Cough does only cover a few strains, it is wise to have it done. The dogs may still contract CC but they don't seem to suffer as badly with it .(in most cases)

[Erny]

My understanding (based on vaccination protocols in the UK) is that vaccination will reduce the severity of the disease, not necessarily prevent it, however it will stop the dogs shedding the disease.

I haven't heard that before. Are you certain this is correct?

[Rappie]

So are these statements correct:

We vaccinate dogs against 1 bacterium and 1 virus, which are the two primary infections of what we know as KC.

The vaccine does not give total immunity but reduces the degree or severity of symptoms that develop when infected with the primary bacterium and virus.

There are several other viruses that also can affect the dog that also make-up the condition that we know as KC.

Yes.

Bordetalla bronchiseptica tends to cause secondary infections, most primary infections seem to be viral. I see loads of dogs with 'kennel cough' that have been vaccinated but the vast majority of them have what I consider to be mild clinical signs and the course of disease is quite short. They are frequently still very bright, happy, with the typical honking cough which is usually non-productive aside from the odd episode of gagging up white frothy saliva. Those dogs with secondary infections have high temperatures, mucus in their chest, mucus in their noses, mucus in their eyes, high temperatures, large lymph nodes and poor appetites - and these are the ones that I treat with antibiotics.

The vaccinations don't prevent infection, but if dogs are infected with one of the pathogens they have received vaccination against it does tend to limit clinical signs. Limiting clinical signs then limits the spread of the virus / bacteria through aerosol droplets and contamination of food and water bowls etc.

I've worked in several areas of Western Sydney - currently in one with a high uptake of vaccinations. Although I probably see just as many cases of canine cough now, I see far fewer cases with pneumonia type symptoms than I used to in an area where lots of dogs were either unvaccinated or only done with C3. The only cases I've seen like that recently have been in pound pups and geriatric dogs.

[Tapferhund]

Very interesting Rappie, thank you !

[~Anne~]

I say don't bother with the KC. It only covers two strains out of 40 odd strains ...

I keep reading these kinds of statements but have never seen evidence of there being a number of strains and the vaccine only covering a certain number. Can you provide a source for this?

Ask your Vets Anne, they will tell you the vaccine only covers a certain amount of strains.

IMO, and even though Canine Cough does only cover a few strains, it is wise to have it done. The dogs may still contract CC but they don't seem to suffer as badly with it .(in most cases)

:D Perhaps you need to read the thread instead of repeating the same misleading info that we have just discussed.

Thanks Rappie and Stormie. Your responses have been great and educational.