Nutrition Query

[BC Crazy]

Hello,

Was wondering if there are any Border Collie owners that could help me with my 2.5 year old neutered BC. My question is I am currently feeding him Royal Canin light, 1.5 cups per day, with 1 chicken carcess or 1 cup of beef casserole made with rump steak & vege, yes spoilt, I know,LOL

also some raw vegetables just to add variety, which he loves. He is exercised 2.5 hours a day, walking at a steady pace, he also plays with other dogs within this period as we live near a leach-free dog beach, so there is plenty of off lead running as well. Sometimes he gets a 20 min walk also in the afternoon. He is a very good doer as far as food goes & I have to watch what I give him as he was 30 kilo not so long So we have lost 1.5 kilo thus far. Does this seem like I should cut him back even further? I would like him to get to 26.5 or 27 at the most as he is not a lightly built Border. Would love any idea's/diets. Was thinking of swapping dry food. Although he looks a picture & he is lovely & shiny. Haas anybody tried Cannadae dry food yet?

[Staranais]

Canidae is good, I like it & so does my dog, but it is high in calories. So swapping to canidae won't make your dog lose weight.

The thing is, with diet food, you're mostly just paying the same price for a food with more undigestible filler. IMO it's better (and cheaper) to just feed the dog less food, not feed him the same amount of "diet" food.

Calories in, vs calories out. Exercise him more, or feed him less. If you feel bad feeding him less, then instead of just putting the food in a bowl you can teach tricks or clicker - make him work for every piece of kibble, he'll feel far more full.

:p

[BC Crazy]

Canidae is good, I like it & so does my dog, but it is high in calories. So swapping to canidae won't make your dog lose weight.

The thing is, with diet food, you're mostly just paying the same price for a food with more undigestible filler. IMO it's better (and cheaper) to just feed the dog less food, not feed him the same amount of "diet" food.

Calories in, vs calories out. Exercise him more, or feed him less. If you feel bad feeding him less, then instead of just putting the food in a bowl you can teach tricks or clicker - make him work for every piece of kibble, he'll feel far more full.

:p

Yes, what you say makes sense. I may as well just buy very good quality dry food ( not light) & feed him less of it. I do feel guilty about giving a lesser amount but I feel criminal about him getting over weight. I have never had an over weight dog and I have had BC's pretty much all of my life. I am as we speak cutting "Sonny" back to one cup of dry food per day. will see how that goes. Thanks for your help. :p

[Staranais]

You're welcome. :p

[JulesP]

My borders get 1 cup of dry in the morning and some sort of bone/meat at night. They are in 'good' condition. The agility people would say a bit on the porky side :p You can add some grated carrot or pumpkin to the kibble/stew so your boy doesn't feel he is being starved.

[piper]

Yours gets more than any of mine - including my highly active hard to keep weight on girl.

I haven't tried the canidade light food but would siggest reducing his food intake. I would be doing EITHER the dry food or the carcass/meat mix but not both. I feed about 50-50% raw/dry food so in your situation I would give dry 1 day and raw meaty bone the next.

Jazz in a skinny phase gets around 2 cups of food a day (not light though) or a good size raw meaty bone. Piper on the other hand gets LESS than 1 cup of dry per day or a smaller raw meaty bone. I also have a beagle and if using chicken carcasses I split a carcass between Piper and Jessi while Jazz gets a whole 1 to herself. Right now I have Jazz at a good weight so have dropped her back a fraction, it is a careful balancing act with her before she loses condition.

When I used to have my 2 old boys as well they got about 1 level cup of food per day or a raw meaty bone.

To be honest I would not worry about the steak mix and would instead use other types of raw meaty bones - kangaroo is nice and lean if you can get it and also include some offal.

[dancinbcs]

That is at least double the amount of food that any of my Borders have ever been fed and mine are certainly not the leanest dogs in the ring and nowhere near as light as the working and agility dogs. Male Borders of standard height usually weigh from about 18-22kgs with a few larger framed ones from 23-26 at the very most.

[BC Crazy]

That is at least double the amount of food that any of my Borders have ever been fed and mine are certainly not the leanest dogs in the ring and nowhere near as light as the working and agility dogs. Male Borders of standard height usually weigh from about 18-22kgs with a few larger framed ones from 23-26 at the very most.

Firstly, thank's so much to everyone for all your help. I am only a new member & am grateful for any help / advice as I want to learn as much as I can about my beautiful BC's. Oh dear, I am just going to have to be very strong & stick to a very strict diet with him then. His father was 26 kg, apparently, Nahrof, 'Say No More'. And his mum was on the larger side as well. Even so ,I certainly am not doing him any favours by trying to give him too much varietyI think. I started last night by giving him half cup of light dry food & half a cup of meat. For a treat I gave him a small carrot a bit later on. Thats it . I must say I got THE LOOK from Sonny as only Borders can. I am not going to fall for that little trick anymore. Or the' follow me' trot to the treats cupboard. LOL. We have 3kg to go to reach our goal weight. Don't know what time ratio weight loss occurs at, suppose it's a bit like people we are all different. As my dear old dad used to say, "you will kill em with kindness" over feeding them.When I am through with Sonny, I will be able to enter him on "The Biggest Loser".

[poodlefan]

You can bulk out his meals with veggies - largely undigestible fibre will fill him up.

Boiled, dry baked or mashed (no butter) pumpkin is excellent for this.

I'd be less interested in what he weights and way more interested in how he feels.

This article gives excellent guidance on how to test your dog's weight and what his ideal "feel" should be.

[BC Crazy]

Sonny is very healthy & seems extremely happy. Even when I have been out & about with him, complete strangers have commented on him numerous times ' What a happy dog ',' Look at his beautiful coat ' e.t.c I don't show him but I try my best to keep him looking his very best.

I was doing the mashed pumpkin thing previously & that is how he lost his first 1.5 kg in 2 week's. But then he just refused to eat the dry food if I put the mashed pumpkin in it ,so I stopped adding it. I am going to go back to giving him that now though, cause I am on a mission with him now. Very interesting article, I can not feel Sonny's rib's but the rest of him doesn't fair up to badly going by the pinch test.

[poodlefan]

Sonny is very healthy & seems extremely happy. Even when I have been out & about with him, complete strangers have commented on him numerous times ' What a happy dog ',' Look at his beautiful coat ' e.t.c I don't show him but I try my best to keep him looking his very best.

I was doing the mashed pumpkin thing previously & that is how he lost his first 1.5 kg in 2 week's. But then he just refused to eat the dry food if I put the mashed pumpkin in it ,so I stopped adding it. I am going to go back to giving him that now though, cause I am on a mission with him now. Very interesting article, I can not feel Sonny's rib's but the rest of him doesn't fair up to badly going by the pinch test.

If I could not feel his ribs without a lot of pressure, he'd have failed agility intake on weight.

[persephone]

If you can't feel ribs- your dog has too much padding

Why not alternate his meals?

One day.. his chicken frame

Next day, his dry/meat/veg?

That way he is still getting a variety of taste/texture and nutrients ..just not all at once

[aussielover]

You can bulk out his meals with veggies - largely undigestible fibre will fill him up.

Boiled, dry baked or mashed (no butter) pumpkin is excellent for this.

I'd be less interested in what he weights and way more interested in how he feels.

This article gives excellent guidance on how to test your dog's weight and what his ideal "feel" should be.

Thankyou for that article PF, it is very interesting.

Does it also apply to puppies?

I am afraid Mindy is overweight if it does.

If I am totally honest, she could stand to lose a few kgs (in my opinion). Although we often get comments about how slim she is and what good condition she is in (for a lab), she is a tall lab girl and has naturally longer legs and a deep chest, so probably looks thinner than she really is.

I acutally can't feel her ribs at all unless you press really hard maybe its just skin???

She does have a decent waist though.

Guide dogs have said she is a perfect weight (one week ago) but personally I don't think it would harm her to lose a little weight.

BC Crazy- is your border a working line or show border? I find a huge variation in weights of working and show borders.

[poodlefan]

You can bulk out his meals with veggies - largely undigestible fibre will fill him up.

Boiled, dry baked or mashed (no butter) pumpkin is excellent for this.

I'd be less interested in what he weights and way more interested in how he feels.

This article gives excellent guidance on how to test your dog's weight and what his ideal "feel" should be.

Thankyou for that article PF, it is very interesting.

Does it also apply to puppies?

I am afraid Mindy is overweight if it does.

If I am totally honest, she could stand to lose a few kgs (in my opinion). Although we often get comments about how slim she is and what good condition she is in (for a lab), she is a tall lab girl and has naturally longer legs and a deep chest, so probably looks thinner than she really is.

I acutally can't feel her ribs at all unless you press really hard maybe its just skin???

She does have a decent waist though.

Guide dogs have said she is a perfect weight (one week ago) but personally I don't think it would harm her to lose a little weight.

BC Crazy- is your border a working line or show border? I find a huge variation in weights of working and show borders.

In my opinion? Yes. There is absolutely no need for pups to be chubby and IMO any breed with a history of growth/joint issues would benefit from being kept lean as a youngster.

Labradors should have waists and obvious tucks like any other breed. The fact that a goodly percentage of them have neither doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Use the flat of your hand - no rib at all means she could benefit from trimming down.

[Gayle.]

My Aussies are bigger than Borders and they'd only get about half that amount of food, except the the 7 month old pup who's still growing and gets a bit less than you've listed.

My very large 30kg adult male gets 1.3 cups of super premium kibble and 1 small chicken drumstick per day. If he had a chicken frame, that would replace the kibble, as would a cup of beef and veges.

My adult female, who is not a small specimen of the breed gets 1 cup of kibble and a chicken drum. If they get treats for training, they get less kibble at dinner. If they get table scraps, they get less kibble.

They are both lean and well muscled.

[BC Crazy]

You can bulk out his meals with veggies - largely undigestible fibre will fill him up.

Boiled, dry baked or mashed (no butter) pumpkin is excellent for this.

I'd be less interested in what he weights and way more interested in how he feels.

This article gives excellent guidance on how to test your dog's weight and what his ideal "feel" should be.

Thankyou for that article PF, it is very interesting.

Does it also apply to puppies?

I am afraid Mindy is overweight if it does.

If I am totally honest, she could stand to lose a few kgs (in my opinion). Although we often get comments about how slim she is and what good condition she is in (for a lab), she is a tall lab girl and has naturally longer legs and a deep chest, so probably looks thinner than she really is.

I acutally can't feel her ribs at all unless you press really hard maybe its just skin???

She does have a decent waist though.

Guide dogs have said she is a perfect weight (one week ago) but personally I don't think it would harm her to lose a little weight.

BC Crazy- is your border a working line or show border? I find a huge variation in weights of working and show borders.

In my opinion? Yes. There is absolutely no need for pups to be chubby and IMO any breed with a history of growth/joint issues would benefit from being kept lean as a youngster.

Labradors should have waists and obvious tucks like any other breed. The fact that a goodly percentage of them have neither doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Use the flat of your hand - no rib at all means she could benefit from trimming down.

My Border is show lines. Didn't know that there was such a huge variation in weights?

[BC Crazy]

Your Aussies are beautiful. Yes, I am obviously giving Sonny far too much to eat per day so we are now starting to reduce that amount by small steps each day. He loves raw vegies so we are bulking his half a cup of dry food with half a cup of the. Half a small chic. carcess per day.Fingers crossed we will see some results soon, I will keep you posted as I am on a mission to reduce his waist line.

[poodlefan]

Your Aussies are beautiful. Yes, I am obviously giving Sonny far too much to eat per day so we are now starting to reduce that amount by small steps each day. He loves raw vegies so we are bulking his half a cup of dry food with half a cup of the. Half a small chic. carcess per day.Fingers crossed we will see some results soon, I will keep you posted as I am on a mission to reduce his waist line.

How much exercise does he get? Upping that will speed up the process.

My vet recommends halving food intake for weight loss - no mucking about.

[aussielover]

You can bulk out his meals with veggies - largely undigestible fibre will fill him up.

Boiled, dry baked or mashed (no butter) pumpkin is excellent for this.

I'd be less interested in what he weights and way more interested in how he feels.

This article gives excellent guidance on how to test your dog's weight and what his ideal "feel" should be.

Thankyou for that article PF, it is very interesting.

Does it also apply to puppies?

I am afraid Mindy is overweight if it does.

If I am totally honest, she could stand to lose a few kgs (in my opinion). Although we often get comments about how slim she is and what good condition she is in (for a lab), she is a tall lab girl and has naturally longer legs and a deep chest, so probably looks thinner than she really is.

I acutally can't feel her ribs at all unless you press really hard maybe its just skin???

She does have a decent waist though.

Guide dogs have said she is a perfect weight (one week ago) but personally I don't think it would harm her to lose a little weight.

BC Crazy- is your border a working line or show border? I find a huge variation in weights of working and show borders.

In my opinion? Yes. There is absolutely no need for pups to be chubby and IMO any breed with a history of growth/joint issues would benefit from being kept lean as a youngster.

Labradors should have waists and obvious tucks like any other breed. The fact that a goodly percentage of them have neither doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Use the flat of your hand - no rib at all means she could benefit from trimming down.

My Border is show lines. Didn't know that there was such a huge variation in weights?

In my experience working line borders are often around the 14-19kg mark, really light framed. Many are shorthaired though, even the longer haired ones have no where near as much coat a a showy.

Show borders also have more "bone". I think both are beautiful dogs though

[BC Crazy]

Yes, my boy Sonny has lots of bone and has a lot of coat. Very showy fellow. Got that 'look at me' thing going on Very handsome boy even if I do say so myself. LOL I have had heaps of people stop me & ask heaps of questions about him & he is like "Yep thats me they are talking about & I am beautiful ".